You can't blame injuries in the Marquette game. It was amazing that Marquette or UNC made it that far. Dean Smith is my idol. My hero. But he did some really dumb things. UNC stormed back. Marquette was gassed. And then Carolina went 4 Corners. Al McGuire was thrilled. Gave his players a chance to rest. And Dean kept Bruce Buckley in the game when he should have called timeout to sub O'Koren
What still bothers you the most after all these years?
- Thread starter DaSheed
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Dude, that is total BS. Tommy Lagarde was out for the season and our freshman Bigs couldn't match theirs. Phil --- the best college player on the planet --- couldn't shoot due to a hyper-extended elbow he picked up in the Regional. So yes, injuries were the difference. And BTW, the Buckley thing is overblown.
Dude, it's not overblown. It's the national championship. You play your best. O'Koren was rested. Dean was just too nice. He didn't want to embarrass Buckley by calling timeout. It was great that they made it to the title game, but when you're there in position to win you have to play your best.
I remember it well. That one still hurts and I’ll take it to my grave. Pete Pavia was the ref and he died a year later. dook beat what was then an unstoppable UNLV team. The closest UNC and dook have come to playing for a Natty.
Probably good that we lost. Duke would have beaten us on Monday night
Sacrilege. UNC had dook’s number that year. King Rice would have given Bobby Hurley a nervous breakdown. UNC wins that game.
I think dook was gassed after the unlv game and we would have beaten them...
91 may have been the worst single day feeling when we lost to Kansas then Dook BEATS the " Unbeatable" UNLV to move on. That was a bad 5 hours of FF action to say the least.
Kendall Marshall wrist injury against Creighton in the 2012 NCAA Tournament
You guys are good. I just opened this thread and the first 3 comments after the OP were the same exact things that I came to post.
Losing seasons in 2002 and 2020.
I first arrived on campus in fall of 1963. And while the first couple of years were a bit rough, I never had to experience a losing season until the 8-20 debacle. And with Roy at the helm, I thought that would never happen again.
Losing games is bad enough, but stuff happens. Losing entire seasons....
I first arrived on campus in fall of 1963. And while the first couple of years were a bit rough, I never had to experience a losing season until the 8-20 debacle. And with Roy at the helm, I thought that would never happen again.
Losing games is bad enough, but stuff happens. Losing entire seasons....
The OT loss to end the home win streak over Clemson was hard to take.
Roy getting bumped out of the NCAA tournament in the first round last season also made me sad.
I honestly believe that those three disappointments over the last 2 seasons - a losing season, failing to extend the Clemson streak, and failing to advance in the NCAAT - contributed to Roy's decision to retire. If those demoralized fans, think how much worse it must have felt to Roy.
I honestly believe that those three disappointments over the last 2 seasons - a losing season, failing to extend the Clemson streak, and failing to advance in the NCAAT - contributed to Roy's decision to retire. If those demoralized fans, think how much worse it must have felt to Roy.
Go rewatch the actual game... dude. Sure, Dean should've called time-out there but it's far from certain that it was a game-changer that he didn't. And of course you conveniently skirted around the REALITY of the multiple injuries, which was the point here. SMH.
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That's a fair point. Everything else is "we coulda" and that was "we woulda."
I was always bothered by those huge comebacks by FSU against us right after they joined the ACC.
That's ok... we got the one that really mattered on them.
https://247sports.com/college/north...etball-Florida-State-1993-Comeback-147838894/
These are smaller beans but.
The first round loss this year to Wisconsin. Just would’ve been cool to see Roy retire being undefeated in R1.
Clemson ending the streak.
The way they lost to Duke at home in 2019. I know we sucked but the way that whole thing went down.
I’ll actually say the 2011 elite 8 loss to UK is a bitter one. That was a year to “steal” a national title. Connecticut and Butler stood in the way after that. But Barnes and Marshall struggled shooting. I don’t think the 2012 team would’ve beaten UK since Anthony Davis was playing on a different planet at that point. But we were more talented than UK in 2011 and the road was easier after. If I recall, Roy left in Henson with 2 fouls in the first half and he picked up a really stupid 3rd foul limiting his minutes too.
The first round loss this year to Wisconsin. Just would’ve been cool to see Roy retire being undefeated in R1.
Clemson ending the streak.
The way they lost to Duke at home in 2019. I know we sucked but the way that whole thing went down.
I’ll actually say the 2011 elite 8 loss to UK is a bitter one. That was a year to “steal” a national title. Connecticut and Butler stood in the way after that. But Barnes and Marshall struggled shooting. I don’t think the 2012 team would’ve beaten UK since Anthony Davis was playing on a different planet at that point. But we were more talented than UK in 2011 and the road was easier after. If I recall, Roy left in Henson with 2 fouls in the first half and he picked up a really stupid 3rd foul limiting his minutes too.
Every tournament loss to a lesser opponent: Weber State, Penn State, etc.
2016 hurt but I got over it when we ran it back for a championship the following year.
2008 Utah was hard...so much talent with so little depth.
2007 we just ran into a buzz saw but we had seen this Arizona team early in the year. No excuse for not being able to slow Simon and figure out their spacing.
1994 was the most talented UNC team ever and shouldn’t have lost to BC, even with ailing Phelps. All season long, the chemistry was just not there. They had the talent to go 33-0. Definitely the most disappointing season ending for me.
The 90’s could have been epic if the 94 and 98 teams hadn't choked...or if Donald 94, Dante 95, and Shammond (97&98) don’t go ice cold in the last game.
2016 hurt but I got over it when we ran it back for a championship the following year.
2008 Utah was hard...so much talent with so little depth.
2007 we just ran into a buzz saw but we had seen this Arizona team early in the year. No excuse for not being able to slow Simon and figure out their spacing.
1994 was the most talented UNC team ever and shouldn’t have lost to BC, even with ailing Phelps. All season long, the chemistry was just not there. They had the talent to go 33-0. Definitely the most disappointing season ending for me.
The 90’s could have been epic if the 94 and 98 teams hadn't choked...or if Donald 94, Dante 95, and Shammond (97&98) don’t go ice cold in the last game.
Not entirely UNC related, but did cost Bobby Jones a gold medal... 1972 Olympic Gold Medal game - last 3 seconds played 3 times until Soviet Union "won" 51 - 50.
I had the Soviets on the Money Line. For every person upset, there is someone happy 😊
Plenty to choose from as UNC fans. As painful as losses are, that’s what makes the NCAA tournament so great. The best team doesn’t always win. Here are some that stand out to me.
1) 1997 & 1998 - Shammond Williams horrific shooting. He shot around 40% for his career from 3 and he laid major eggs in back to back years.
2) 2016 - I loved Paige and Johnson. We want every kid to win it, but that loss was heartbreaking.
3) 2012 - The “what-if” that 1983-1984 gave us we saw here too. Key PG injuries. The 2012 was built to win it and having a rematch vs UK would’ve been nice.
4) 2011 - The elite 8 loss to UK was bad. How could Zeller not get the last look?!?? He was dominant. If we win that we have a great chance to steal one.
1) 1997 & 1998 - Shammond Williams horrific shooting. He shot around 40% for his career from 3 and he laid major eggs in back to back years.
2) 2016 - I loved Paige and Johnson. We want every kid to win it, but that loss was heartbreaking.
3) 2012 - The “what-if” that 1983-1984 gave us we saw here too. Key PG injuries. The 2012 was built to win it and having a rematch vs UK would’ve been nice.
4) 2011 - The elite 8 loss to UK was bad. How could Zeller not get the last look?!?? He was dominant. If we win that we have a great chance to steal one.
Didn't sleep well that night. Everyone in the world knew Rivers was going to take the three. But muscle memory took over on Z as he had been drilled forever in the Dean/Roy way of playing defense in that you protect from the drive at all costs.
"...but that game where POS punk Scrub Zero Austin Rivers hit a shot over Zeller to win it..."
I've had a lot of disappointments over the years pulling for our Heels, and I've gotten over most of them....but I'll never get the bitter taste of that game out of my mouth. We were handling dook, but the refs were hosing us bad in the second half; and a ref was standing right there when Zeller got sent flying with one of the hardest, most blatant shoves in the back you'll ever see. You could feel what was coming, and I thought I was going to puke when Rivers' shot went in. Dook didn't deserve to even be close in that game, let alone win it.
98 for me. Was 10 years old at the time, but man I loved that team. Shame they didn’t cut down the nets
That 84 team was one of the best ever at UNC.
antawn and vince going back to back final 4s w/no ring
Jenkins was terrible but winning it next year softened the blow
94 I believe we were loaded but lost to BC breaking consecutive sweet 16 appearances for Dean. That streak was amazing and that team was too loaded to lose that game.
antawn and vince going back to back final 4s w/no ring
Jenkins was terrible but winning it next year softened the blow
94 I believe we were loaded but lost to BC breaking consecutive sweet 16 appearances for Dean. That streak was amazing and that team was too loaded to lose that game.
No, I am not. Instead of relying on urban legend, go re-watch the actual game. As I said, yes, Dean should've called TO, but there was NO guarantee it would've made a difference.
Ultimately the game was lost by Phil having a hyperextended elbow and not being able to shoot and us not being able to match up with their frontcourt without Tommy Lagarde available.
You are talking about one boo-boo.
Dean made several during that game sir.
Jerome Whitehead still says: "Thank you!".
Yes you are gary.
Never, ever call off the dogs when you got your foot on the back of their neck sir.
Major boo-boo!
It's ok to be wrong gary, I am a forgiving person.
You guys are aware that you are talking about opinions regarding an ancient game right? It is impossible to determine right or wrong here, but......it is entertaining our resident troll!
Example:
Boo Boo vs Historical precedent-hindsight makes it a boo boo but DES was awful successful in the past employing a stall tactic so.....
TO vs Wait for game stoppage- probably should have called it, but in general it is a good thing to trust your troops and sensible to expect a stoppage.
Anyway, enjoy the debate!
Example:
Boo Boo vs Historical precedent-hindsight makes it a boo boo but DES was awful successful in the past employing a stall tactic so.....
TO vs Wait for game stoppage- probably should have called it, but in general it is a good thing to trust your troops and sensible to expect a stoppage.
Anyway, enjoy the debate!
I did go back and watch the game. With about 10 minutes left the game was tied 45-45. We had the ball and there's no question we took our foot off the gas and stopped attacking at that point. Did that cost us the game? Opinions vary. But injuries or not, I believe we still had enough good players to win the game had we been more aggressive.
BTW, I have never been a strong advocate of the shot clock, but after watching that game I'm convinced it would have been much better basketball had we had one then.
DES is in the huddle looking into his guys eyes; if he sees they are tired, beat or whatever; he has to call what they can execute at that moment! Injuries mean peeps not used to extended minutes get them and stars have to shoulder more of the load than usual-these are factors you cannot see in a grainy 80s era video! If he believes slowing down is in their best interest, I have to side with the GOAT! Cherry picking way after can make a decision look worse than it was in the moment too!
Ex: Coach gambles and goes for it on 4th down on his side of the 50 yard line. If they get the 1st down, he is a genius; if they turn the ball over on downs and the other teams scores with a short field, he is an idiot!
Same scene: Coach punts because he trusts his D. If they hold and then run out the clock or score, he is genius; if the opponent runs it back, scores , or runs out the clock, he is a fool that should have gone for it!
Ex: Coach gambles and goes for it on 4th down on his side of the 50 yard line. If they get the 1st down, he is a genius; if they turn the ball over on downs and the other teams scores with a short field, he is an idiot!
Same scene: Coach punts because he trusts his D. If they hold and then run out the clock or score, he is genius; if the opponent runs it back, scores , or runs out the clock, he is a fool that should have gone for it!
Honestly, THAT ^ was the coaching error, going to the Corners one possession too soon. Again, we can only assume we'd go on to get a lead, but yes, pulling it with a tie score just wasn't the best idea, even with the injuries figured in. With a tie score Al was able to keep his Bigs within reach of the rim instead of challenging their men, which cut off our back-doors. With a UNC lead they couldn't afford to do that.
Then you should be just fine...
We agree to disagree,........But I know and you know who is correct on this!
I do indeed, brotherWe agree to disagree,........But I know and you know who is correct on this!
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