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What we learned tonight

UNC-75

UNC-75

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2008
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I'm as disappointed as anyone here but this is what we learned tonight:

1) UNC is better than we thought. They take one of the top teams to overtime on their home court against the player of the year. Be honest - as the prediction thread shows most of you did not think we would be this competitive tonight.

2) Duke is not as good as most think. They have problems with teams that run on them and they don't have a very good defense.

That said. UNC gained more confidence tonight for the post season and Duke lost some of theirs. I can't wait for the rematch.
 
1. I think you're right. I just hope this isn't one of those insane rivalry games that has no explanation. I am concerned that late game execution failure is becoming a pattern (Notre Dame, louisville, Duke).

2. I think Duke is a legit top 4 team.... But I think if they struggled against our bigs, they're going to get destroyed if they face UK's bigs. What today showed me was Duke is probably less of a threat to UK than I thought they were yesterday. Of course, this might have just been a crazy insane rivalry game that has no meaning other than it's Carolina/Duke.

I hope you're right that UNC gained confidence. I am a bit fearful of a hangover.... And the bottom line is 4 losses in 5 games. Georgia Tech is a game they need a good performance in IMO.
 
Yes but history has proven that what happens in February has little meaning at what happens in April. Again I say, if were a Duke fan I would be worried about the end of a dream year coming sooner than expected.
 
I agree with that analysis but still we did not handle the ball or the situations down the stretch at all well. Turnovers, bad passes, missed FTS/ We HAD that game and just sort of frittered it away .Of course on can always count on the refs and their touch foul gifts to dook that is a given

and check out the twitter photo of Winslow just WRAPPED around JP as Jones drives in for an easy layup. Nothing called and why should it?? This IS dook at home and those normal rules just do not apply to them.
 
Originally posted by UNC-75:
I'm as disappointed as anyone here but this is what we learned tonight:

1) UNC is better than we thought. They take one of the top teams to overtime on their home court against the player of the year. Be honest - as the prediction thread shows most of you did not think we would be this competitive tonight.

2) Duke is not as good as most think. They have problems with teams that run on them and they don't have a very good defense.

That said. UNC gained more confidence tonight for the post season and Duke lost some of theirs. I can't wait for the rematch.
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I agree with all of this. I feel good about the rematch, but man it sucks being up by nine late and not finding some way to hold on. I truly believe the officials do help in this regard in that way: late in the game, you know Dook was going to get to drive with a foul called EVERY TIME regardless of whether they initiated the contact. And you could see Tokoto and a couple other guys for us just get tackled with no calls.

We haven't played great at home this year, so who knows what happens. Does Cook go off for 6-8 from 3? Not likely if we learn to guard him just a little. I think as a group our bigs can outplay theirs. Both Meeks and Brice had better numbers than Okey Doke tonight. We should just have James spread (and even Jackson Simmons) hand out 4-5 hard fouls each on Okafor.

I just wish the Heels would play with the intensity they showed for most of the second half, all the time. Just hate that they look asleep on defense until they get in deep trouble, then wear themselves out digging out of a hole.
 
I honestly don't see it. I think Duke is going to blow us out in the next game. We played amazing basketball almost all game and blew it. As bad as we are getting up for games, I can't see us getting up again after that let down.
 
Originally posted by imajericho:
I honestly don't see it. I think Duke is going to blow us out in the next game. We played amazing basketball almost all game and blew it. As bad as we are getting up for games, I can't see us getting up again after that let down.
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Have a drink, go to bed, and wake up tomorrow and see we will be favored at the Dean Dome.
 
I strongly disagree that Carolina gains confidence from this game. The inability to close out yet another game that was in the bag late (ND, UofL, Duke) surely has to cripple this team's psychee (sp)
 
Originally posted by keysersosay#1:

I agree with that analysis but still we did not handle the ball or the situations down the stretch at all well. Turnovers, bad passes, missed FTS/ We HAD that game and just sort of frittered it away .Of course on can always count on the refs and their touch foul gifts to dook that is a given

and check out the twitter photo of Winslow just WRAPPED around JP as Jones drives in for an easy layup. Nothing called and why should it?? This IS dook at home and those normal rules just do not apply to them.
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That play was infuriating and blatant, as were a couple more. At least once, a Dookie just basically tackled Berry when he was dribbling with the ball.... no death, no foul I guess.....

.... then late in the game "I can't foul" Okafor bulldozes two of our guys for an offensive rebound. He missed the shot, which made Bilas throw a tantrum and cry.

On the Tokoto play above - Bilas says " you can see guys getting tangled up....." No Jay, when a guy has you basically locked in a bearhug from behind, that isn't tangled up, that is WWF or football..... or tough defense in HIS apparently.
 
Overtime TarHeelNation. Had a chance at the buzzer. Played equal to a team that was suppose to be much better than us. See the light. Yes, we did not close the game out. But we were there. All we need is one more step. And Duke needs much more. I go to bed tonight disappointed but content. Mercer awaits the Duke team. Our future has a greater potential. I am confident about this.
 
Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:
I strongly disagree that Carolina gains confidence from this game. The inability to close out yet another game that was in the bag late (ND, UofL, Duke) surely has to cripple this team's psychee (sp)
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No business losing to an average unathletic Iowa team late, at home either. I just don't know if this team has "it" to have consistent confidence and toughness.

You'd hope something clicks and this team starts playing hard, smart, together ALL THE TIME. Not always after they are down by double digits. It is encouraging to see what they are capable of, like tonight. Is bringing it for 40 minutes, regardless of the opponent, too much to ask?
 
Originally posted by Heelicious:
Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:
I strongly disagree that Carolina gains confidence from this game. The inability to close out yet another game that was in the bag late (ND, UofL, Duke) surely has to cripple this team's psychee (sp)
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No business losing to an average unathletic Iowa team late, at home either. I just don't know if this team has "it" to have consistent confidence and toughness.

You'd hope something clicks and this team starts playing hard, smart, together ALL THE TIME. Not always after they are down by double digits. It is encouraging to see what they are capable of, like tonight. Is bringing it for 40 minutes, regardless of the opponent, too much to ask?
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If losing does make it "click" it's probably just not in them. Every really good Roy team had that toughness. Even the 2012 team that lost on that Rivers buzzer beater went into Durham curbed stomped Duke. This team responded after Notre Dame with a gut check win over Louisville but we haven't seen that response since.
 
This type of game can kill a team or help. We'll see how it goes from here. We had the game and gave it away. That can be a major confidence booster. We aren't a mid major that takes pride in keeping a game close and still losing. We hard our chances and blew it. We have to learn from this game and move on.
 
Originally posted by UNC-75:

Overtime TarHeelNation. Had a chance at the buzzer. Played equal to a team that was suppose to be much better than us. See the light. Yes, we did not close the game out. But we were there. All we need is one more step. And Duke needs much more. I go to bed tonight disappointed but content. Mercer awaits the Duke team. Our future has a greater potential. I am confident about this.
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I agree we played equal to them and responded very well to a bad start; we also responded well to multiple Duke surges that could've buried us. But all that being said...........I stand by my point that the manner in which we lost this game (capitulating a lead) is quickly becoming a habit [see ND, Louisville] and that surely has to be present in each player's mind. It's just human nature...

Originally posted by NCAAUCoach:

This type of game can kill a team or help. We'll see how it goes from here. We had the game and gave it away. That can be a major confidence booster. We aren't a mid major that takes pride in keeping a game close and still losing. We hard our chances and blew it. We have to learn from this game and move on.
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I kinda agree with this. This game could help but could hurt. And yep, we're too good of a program for moral victories. We had 'em right where we wanted 'em -- up 10 with what, 3 minutes left? -- and then we just blew it. The Meeks inbound, the running-into-each-other missed defensive board, the inability to guard Tyus (regardless of fouls committed), and the inability to prevent 3-pointers, and the inability to make free throws in the clutch. I hate to say it, but to me, the capitulation tarnishes all the heart and fight-back shown up to that point...JMO though.

Hopefully we do get stronger from this
 
I have coached for many years although the sport is baseball and what I see is this team doesn't know how to win. This is hard to describe. Some teams are talented but they just have not figured out how to win. Now once they do learn how to win they are extremely good. There is just a "how to" that our kids have to find. I have had teams that were like this. They were hard to figure out. Hopefully sooner or later the light will come on and we will have something special.

You can't win the National Title in February!
 
Originally posted by uncfan in ky:

We need Theo & his energy back in the worst way.
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Amen . . !

Theo gives Roy another option at the 3 spot as well as bringing defense and energy to the floor . . the numbers plainly show how well Tokoto plays when Pinson was on the floor with him.
 
Originally posted by UNC-75:

1) UNC is better than we thought.

2) Duke is not as good as most think.

That said. UNC gained more confidence tonight for the post season and Duke lost some of theirs. I can't wait for the rematch.
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Yes. Yes. Really? At crunch time I saw one team that was afraid to lose and one team that wanted to win. I think that goes a long way in the post season.

CC
 
We learned absolutely nothing that we already didn't know. This team doesn't have the mojo to win it all or advance very far. They gave Duke all it could handle, but in the end they lost (of course hard to win 9 on 5). There is no freaking moral victory here. It makes the Pitt game just look that much worse and suspect they will come out completely flat vs. GT on Saturday. This team will not be getting any better any time soon, probably worse if Paige or any others leave. We have a very talented group of players, but do not have that player to make us elite. UNC is losing big time on the recruiting trail and it is showing now. Paige is great, but lack of help and injuries have made him play desperate at times. This team has no clue how to close out games for the most part.
 
Originally posted by TarHeelNation11:
I strongly disagree that Carolina gains confidence from this game. The inability to close out yet another game that was in the bag late (ND, UofL, Duke) surely has to cripple this team's psychee (sp)
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That's my fear. Deep down, several of those guys now fear that they will alwayas choke late against a top opponent.

Central to that having become the case, I think, is that in their guts they 'know' that winning late in tight games against top teams requires smart team play in the half court on both offense and defense. And UNC players know that Roy is all about the secondeary fast break, about the ideology of winning by getting up and down the court the fastest. That ideology necesarily means half court play must be short changed. Half court play is secondary.

People always 'feel' more basic philosophical assumptions than they know intellectually. UNC players know that tough, smart, methodical half court play is required to win the close tough games. They 'feel' that the Roy system is a handicap to playing tough, smart, patient half court basketball.

So deep down they expect to screw up when facing a well coached smart team that has made the game a war that will go to the end.
 
Learned nothing new - confirmed that UNC/dook is an unbelievable rivalry and no telling what will happen. Sometimes I wish I was not a UNC fan just so I could enjoy these games as a college basketball fan.
 
I like the optimism and intent of the original poster, i really do. i also agree that at times, we can be better than we give ourselves credit for, and i also believe that Duke isn't nearly as good as people think they are. I think they are prone for another early round exit this year when Okra isn't getting the hollywood treatment by ACC refs and Jones and Cook aren't hitting the bottom of the net. I just have a hard time believing that we will leave this loss with confidence. it was yet another close game that we gave away this year and didn't execute at all frankly on many fronts. This team stands around in crunch time and has done so for 2 years now. They wait for Marcus Paige to make a shot as the shot clock is winding down, even as he's been MIA this year. We look lost, and uncomfortable with the game on the line. Just look at that last possession for us in overtime. NOBODY, i mean NOBODY wanted to take that shot.
 
Originally posted by ltrogdon:
What this team needs more than anything else, is a miracle cure for plantar facitis.
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This, no NBA for Brice or Kennedy, and Giles.

Paige
Giles
Justin
Brice
Kennedy

JPT, JJ, Nate, JB, and Theo off the bench. Loaded in 15-16.

I've given up a Final Four appearance for this year.
 
I gotta hope that these blown leads late in games in providing some sort of teaching mechanism.

If they learn from these heartbreaking losses, hopefully they'll improve their late game performance come tourney time...if they don't, the dance will be a quick jig and exit stage left.
 
I learned that it was better for me NOT to watch the game, because I KNEW it we would likely get jobbed at the end anyway. Now I can simply delete from the DVR and pretend it never happened.
 
I learned we don't know how to finish a game we had in hand. We blew it. Duke gets credit for making plays, but if we don't crap the bed it's a moot point. We let this game, the Iowa game, the Notre Dame game and the Louisville game get a way from us when we should've finished. What I HOPE we learn is you have to finish games and put teams away.
 
Originally posted by NCAAUCoach:
I learned we don't know how to finish a game we had in hand. We blew it. Duke gets credit for making plays, but if we don't crap the bed it's a moot point. We let this game, the Iowa game, the Notre Dame game and the Louisville game get a way from us when we should've finished. What I HOPE we learn is you have to finish games and put teams away.
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That's hard to do when you don't have great guards who can shoot free throws. Britt and Brice both missed huge FT's because they denied our only good clutch FT shooter the ball.
 
Originally posted by dadika13:

Originally posted by NCAAUCoach:
I learned we don't know how to finish a game we had in hand. We blew it. Duke gets credit for making plays, but if we don't crap the bed it's a moot point. We let this game, the Iowa game, the Notre Dame game and the Louisville game get a way from us when we should've finished. What I HOPE we learn is you have to finish games and put teams away.
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That's hard to do when you don't have great guards who can shoot free throws. Britt and Brice both missed huge FT's because they denied our only good clutch FT shooter the ball.
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Britt is an outstanding FT shooter - actually better than Marcus in ACC play last year and better numbers on the whole season this year. He just simply choked on that FT. No two ways around it. It certainly didn't help that the f*cking refs iced him by taking 4 minutes to put 2 goddam seconds on the clock.
 
As I posted in another thread, Dook was 16 - 31 from the free throw line. Free throws were a wash.
 
We played passive the last 3 minutes. Period. We made mistakes and lost chances to put them away (FT's).
 
Originally posted by NCAAUCoach:
We played passive the last 3 minutes. Period. We made mistakes and lost chances to put them away (FT's).
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Agreed. The interesting question is not "What we learned tonight" but "What the TEAM learned tonight". The season really depends on it. Learn how to start a game (first 5 min) and how to finish the game and we could go a long way. Don't learn those lessons and we bow out early. That simple IMO.
 
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