Quick stuff (Pitt game)...

[gary-7]

..and at least that's outta the way.

I'll hit the biggest issues first:
- I watched Pitt a bit earlier and they'll foul the scorekeeper if you let them. I posted that Mando had a chance for a good offensive game, BUT... that was predicated on a decent zebra crew. So much for that, but Mando did get to the line enough to make a diference and converted.

- with that said, Mando had a terrific defensive game vs their size. In fact, that was an impressive TEAM performance on that end.

- Speaking of FTs, even though we should've had twice the attempts, our pct continues to carry us on a night when we couldn't hit much else consistently. Fortunately, Pitt continued their FT brick-laying, as they got there more than they should have, TBH.

- I really hated playing too much at their tempo, but that defense carried the day, as well as a plucky effort on the glass. But geez, how may point-blank tips can we miss? Nonetheless, there is something to be said in prevaiing in a rock-fight, and even getting to 70 pts.

- On that note, several expressed hopes this week that our "edge" this season would serve us well up there, and YES, it did. We did NOT back down to their thug-ball. Ingram (despite a shooting drought) and Cormac were especially feisty on the offensive glass, and Cadeau stoned bigger guys until a GODAWFUL foul call on his dive steal. Mando was snagging boards (one time with BOTH brothers holding each arm, and our rim-protection served notice. WIthers and JWash gave as good as they got, and Seth was up in grilles as usual.

- Speaking of Seth, more good minutes and heady play, and how bout that alley-oop finish --- defintiely has JP's hops.

-Big-time 3s by RJ at the end and beginning of the halves. Major timely.

- 51-41 Rebound margin incl 16 offensive vs their length. That dog will hunt.

- We made them an iso one-on-one team . Pitt only had 6 Assists total.

- Finally, I really wanted to force tempo more but I am always gratified by a team defense that works together and rotates. Pitt's bad shooting night was no fluke, folks --- they had to work for (and sometimes force) their looks.

Anyway, posting this one and hoping for good discussion. We got past 1st road-game jitters and didn't allow ourselves to be bullied. Check. I'll take it...

 

[adwood81]

Glad you are back!

 

[Heels5150]

Credit Ingram for making a huge difference in other areas of the game when his shot wasn’t falling. He was tremendous on the glass with 15 rebounds. Cadeau should have had only 2 fouls maximum. His second and fourth fouls were absolutely absurd. To win by 13 against those thugs while our shots weren’t falling was very encouraging to see. RJ forced the issue in several instances throughout this game and that’s something that he hadn’t been doing in the last few games. Washington has a lot of talent but he definitely needs to get stronger. Great Conference win on the road to put us at 2-0! GDTBATH

 

[tarwhiz]

..and at least that's outta the way.

I'll hit the biggest issues first:
- I watched Pitt a bit earlier and they'll foul the scorekeeper if you let them. I posted that Mando had a chance for a good offensive game, BUT... that was predicated on a decent zebra crew. So much for that, but Mando did get to the line enough to make a diference and converted.

- with that said, Mando had a terrific defensive game vs their size. In fact, that was an impressive TEAM performance on that end.

- Speaking of FTs, even though we should've had twice the attempts, our pct continues to carry us on a night when we couldn't hit much else consistently. Fortunately, Pitt continued their FT brick-laying, as they got there more than they should have, TBH.

- I really hated playing too much at their tempo, but that defense carried the day, as well as a plucky effort on the glass. But geez, how may point-blank tips can we miss? Nonetheless, there is something to be said in prevaiing in a rock-fight, and even getting to 70 pts.

- On that note, several expressed hopes this week that our "edge" this season would serve us well up there, and YES, it did. We did NOT back down to their thug-ball. Ingram (despite a shooting drought) and Cormac were especially feisty on the offensive glass, and Cadeau stoned bigger guys until a GODAWFUL foul call on his dive steal. Mando was snagging boards (one time with BOTH brothers holding each arm, and our rim-protection served notice. WIthers and JWash gave as good as they got, and Seth was up in grilles as usual.

- Speaking of Seth, more good minutes and heady play, and how bout that alley-oop finish --- defintiely has JP's hops.

- 51-41 Rebound margin incl 16 offensive vs their length. That dog will hunt.

- We made them an iso one-on-one team . Pitt only had 6 Assists total.

- Finally, I really wanted to force tempo more but I am always gratified by a team defense that works together and rotates. Pitt's bad shooting night was no fluke, folks --- they had to work for (and sometimes force) their looks.

Anyway, posting this one and hoping for good discussion. We got past 1st road-game jitters and didn't allow ourselves to be bullied. Check. I'll take it...

Trimble was awesome!
The defense now has strung together 3 really good games in a row.
Ingram was a tough SOB but has struggled some with length. If we could get more consistent play from Withers, Ingram can get more time at the 3.......
Cadeau played very well defensively and got a bad whistle twice possibly 3 times.
This is a great win and the ceiling continues to get higher in my opinion.
We need Cadeau to find that consistent aggressive nature that this team needs to fully reach it's potential.
When he finally takes off, sky is the limit.

Damn, I can't help looking ahead some to 2024-25 when this squad will be one of the most athletic in the country. Those dunks by Trimble and Withers along with Powell and Jackson will be common place once Eliott finds his footing.

 

[TarHeelMark]

they'll foul the scorekeeper if you let them

😆 There was one 1st half sequence when Harrison brought the ball upcourt, and Pitt's no. 5 fouled him about 3 times with nary a whistle blown.

Heels definitely showed a lot of toughness tonight after that horrid 0-10 start. But only being down by 6 proves once again that defense and rebounding will win you a lot of games.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

Glad you back my man, if you hadn't showed up after this game I was coming up there personally to find you. 👍

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

This might have been Bacot’s best game in a while as he refused to be intimidated both offensively and defensively. He got fouled all night but he also hammered some of the Panthers down low so as long as they call it both ways I have no problems. Carolina shot probably twice as many free throws as Pitt so it all evened out in the end…It will be hard for fans to call Carolina soft after this drawn out knock and rock contest…

 

[FlaTarHeel]

Jason Capel is a more embarrassing alum than McCants.
Don't @me

 

[tarwhiz]

Jason Capel is a more embarrassing alum than McCants.
Don't @me

Those Stupid Moose Antlers he would display after making a 3 during the 8-20 season cemented him as my least favorite Tar Heel of all time.

 

[dtodd4475]

Wasn't able to catch the game, but glancing at the stats it looks like we were able to stiffle thier limited scorers, other then Carrington, and comfortably controlled the glass and paint.

Nice areas to out "bully" Pitt. Nice to get a road dub, especially with two more right around the corner.

 

[Heelicious]

Nice accurate post. How much would it suck to be a team knowing it can’t win anything on their talent so they need to junk and thug it up, and hope you can beat the other team into submission. Ugly ball not fun to watch at all.

One other thing. I can’t think of any bigger clown Pos official than Teddy Valentine. All the stupid theatrics - give it a rest. And it’s like he taunts and shows up players and coaches, hoping he can agitate them to getting a T.

He also has no idea how to call a game to keep it from devolving into a rock and stick fight. Just stupid and hard to watch, and gets both teams beat up and maybe injured. Not at all how basketball is supposed to be played. “Pitt has less talent so we’re gonna let them beat the s out of UNC - no consequences- to even it out”. BS.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Big time win on the road. On to the next one!

 

[Ozheelfan]

Could only watch the condensed game… but even in a 17min clip the thuggery stood out.

There was definitely a plan to make sure that any tar heel who entered the paint exited with a bruise or two. The mugging of EC on that drive was awful and you could see how RJ and Seth were similarly targeted.

No 5 (couldn’t be bothered to look up his name) seemed to be grabbing and pulling all game.

Kudos to Ryan for his rebounding… even amongst the trees. And nice to see withers going inside for some work.

Glad Mando stood up to them too… it seems like he hasn’t handled physicality as well this year so I’m hoping he’s getting his mojo back.

Good away win and I’m glad I took the under!

 

[gary-7]

Wasn't able to catch the game, but glancing at the stats it looks like we were able to stiffle thier limited scorers, other then Carrington, and comfortably controlled the glass and paint.

Nice areas to out "bully" Pitt. Nice to get a road dub, especially with two more right around the corner.

TBH, color me less than impressed with Carrington. He doesn't run an offense worth a damn and didn't get squat for himself until the zebras hampered EC with the bogus calls, and even then he got looks due to his size or us clamping down on his teammates.

 

[notashelbyfan]

- 51-41 Rebound margin incl 16 offensive vs their length.

That's a big one.

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

For me, that was our most important victory this season. We started so poorly on offense and didn’t score
for six and half minutes, but scrapped to keep the margin close. And we kept scrapping, each and every Heel
was bringing it defensively, particularly Ingram and Cadeau (he dives for a loose ball, the Pitt player collides
with EC while airborne, and EC gets called? 😧)
Armando played with urgency and the effort by RJ and Seth Trimble on both ends of the floor
kept the Thugsters from developing any rhythm offensively. So, so nice to get that road victory.
Let’s do it again vs the Tiggers.

 

[imajericho]

We woulda probably lost if Pitt was hitting from 3, but then again, they were lucky we had some guys with an off night also. Coulda been a 40 point game if we were hitting and they slumped too. Such is the game of basketball.

 

[strummingram]

Good to see the guys battle back from a really poor start to win in a hostile environment. Pitt is like dookie jr. to me. Capel is a dookie and they play dirty as hell.

 

[Bubspub88]

I am about 90% sure we lose this game last year - horrible shooting start and on the road. Bacot played the most effective game I have seen in a while, physical but remained composed. I was hoping others would step up whenever RJ had an off-game and they did.

Rebounding and FT numbers were great and a/to ratio was not awful. I cannot believe less than 40 fouls called in total, especially when Pitt was trying to foul at the end.

Bench played better but I still think we need more production there. At some point either foul trouble or injury will force the issue and only Trimble is consistently providing positive minutes.

Not gonna be upset with any road win, especially in a place we have struggled. Enjoy this one today but then back to work - they better be totally focused down at Clemson. Starting 4-0 with 3 on the road would be huge in this year's ACC.

 

[RP12]

I thought 2 of the 4 calls against EC were bogus but fair or not he's going to have to overcorrect to avoid calls for a while since that's the book on him. The offensive peak so far was against Tennessee and this team can't get back to that level with him off the court/unavailable so much.

 

[ACokeForRoy]

Seth is the "Secret Sauce".

 

[Indy_Heel]

When a team is labeled a good defensive team them seem to always get away with BS crap. EC does get some BS calls on him every game. 25 for them on offense I don’t think set 1 legal screen all night. The best was one slow mow play they showed he ran up to set the pick never stopped moving when he ran into our guy then shoved him away with two hands and ran towards the basket. We definitely lose this game last year. If feel a couple of the new guys have helped this team with toughness. Teams knew they could bully UNC last year and get in their heads.

Buddy asked me my thoughts on the game as he was going to bet them in a Parlay. I said they would win by 10+ or get beat. I said as long as they play tough they will win. I told him I feel this team this year can play those type of games where a team is allowed to beat the crap out you and get a way with it.

 

[ChiShankCity]

I don't think there are going to be a lot of teams that are offensively challenged who beat us this year in the regular season. Villanova has been the only exception and Nova shot like 20% higher from the FT line that game compared to their season average. So got a bit unlucky in that loss. So far this year against the top 100 BartTorvik teams:

Northern Iowa (63rd in adj off efficiency) - W
Villanova (58th) - L
Arkansas (59th) - W
Tennessee (41st) - W
UConn (7th) - L
Kentucky (6th) - L
Oklahoma (74th) - W
Pittsburgh (78th) - W

Clemson is 15th in the country in offensive efficiency and shoots the ball really well. So that will be an interesting test. Our three-game run of really good defense has come against the 74th, 288th, and 78th-ranked offenses in the country. Clemson will provide a better test, at least on paper.

I think these grind-you-out teams are really good matchups for us. You need to be able to score against UNC to beat them.

We didn't score for the first 6:30 and still ended the game averaging more than 1.0 points-per-possession.

But I'm guessing a lot of conference games will look like this. Some guys will play really well. Others will struggle. But hopefully everyone does something positive to contribute even though their shots aren't falling. Win, move on and stay healthy.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I knew we had the grit to withstand them and I am glad we chose to show it! I will repeat: I HOPE peeps think they can bully us because this will distract them from actually bringing their A game on O. We shut down and frustrated both Carrington and Hinton and outworked their multiple trees inside! Peeps questioned Mando, but I think they got the answers they needed. I can't remember a game with so many head scratching calls going both ways! It is hard to play with any continuity when you can't anticipate what will be a call! TV should be banned from bball entirely! SETH!!!! RJ!!! Mando!!! We just proved that we can play and succeed at any kind of game out there! Let's build on this one and continue to play our hearts out at Clemson!

 

[gary-7]

When a team is labeled a good defensive team them seem to always get away with BS crap. EC does get some BS calls on him every game. 25 for them on offense I don’t think set 1 legal screen all night. The best was one slow mow play they showed he ran up to set the pick never stopped moving when he ran into our guy then shoved him away with two hands and ran towards the basket. We definitely lose this game last year. If feel a couple of the new guys have helped this team with toughness. Teams knew they could bully UNC last year and get in their heads.

Buddy asked me my thoughts on the game as he was going to bet them in a Parlay. I said they would win by 10+ or get beat. I said as long as they play tough they will win. I told him I feel this team this year can play those type of games where a team is allowed to beat the crap out you and get a way with it.

Yep, I know exactly the play you're talking about. Dude was more like a tall pulling Guard in football. And yes, to those who have mentioned it, I agree that we lose this game last year.

 

[gary-7]

I thought 2 of the 4 calls against EC were bogus but fair or not he's going to have to overcorrect to avoid calls for a while since that's the book on him. The offensive peak so far was against Tennessee and this team can't get back to that level with him off the court/unavailable so much.

Well put. EC got hosed for playing strong defense vs taller guys trying to bully. That dive call was 100% wrong --- if you get to the ball before contact that is your ball, period. But yes, he needs to be more judiicious once he gets an early foul or two --- that comes with experience.

I also notice that RJ gets away with more contact that EC does. That is partially because of experience but partially a Senior getting treated with more deference than a Frosh. BTW, I loved that play when Hinson thought he was gonna create a foul on RJ by going up thru him and RJ didn't take the bait (and fortunately the zebras didn't invent one, which I was sure they would).

Eliot busted his ass last night on D and got robbed of game time for his troubles, and you're right, we need him on the floor for max efficiency.

 

[TarHeelMark]

There was one 1st half sequence when Harrison brought the ball upcourt, and Pitt's no. 5 fouled him about 3 times with nary a whistle blown.

No 5 (couldn’t be bothered to look up his name) seemed to be grabbing and pulling all game.

that dude was non-stop hacking machine

 

[HeelMac]

We woulda probably lost if Pitt was hitting from 3, but then again, they were lucky we had some guys with an off night also. Coulda been a 40 point game if we were hitting and they slumped too. Such is the game of basketball.

They didn't hit from three partly because of how good our defense played.

 

[DSouthr]

Capel has sure taught his team how to grab and lock arms because they did that crap to us all night and I guess the refs had selective blindness? Those 2 brothers are just slimy, that freshman PG way over hyped, sure loves to swing his elbows when he gets a rebound. The ACC office of officiating needs to review the video of this game. WE started the game a bit slow offensively, could not get shots to drop but it seemed to me that when the physical play kicked in by Pitt this team woke up and fought back.

Pitt was looking to double pretty much everywhere, they focused on bringing RJ in to doubles and tried to trap him every where he went. When the ball went in to Bacot they flew the double to him but did so from different angles. Bacot actually did a great job catching and making the quick decision to kick it straight back out and re-position. Bacot on the defensive end did a really good job especially getting switched at times on to guards, he was moving really well. I was really pissed, Ingram gets the board and takes off on the break, the entire trip up court Pitt is grabbing his hands and arms, he had to be fouled at least 3 different times on that break, he slips it to Bacot for the flush but not a single whistle?

The unsung hero of this game for me is Ingram, yeah I know, 2 for 12 from the field right? That kid fought, he battled, he worked, 15 boards of which 5 were offensive, 3 assists, and 2 blocks. And if that was not good enough he spent most of the night guarding Hinson, Pitt's most dangerous scorer and held him to 11pts, on 4-16 shooting. Just to add the cherry on top, while Ingram didn't score a lot, those 5 pts he scored late could not have come at a better time. He went to his back down move early and often but they were harassing his dribble and looking for him to turn before they sprang the double looking to strip him, they were schooled on when to spring the double.

Bacot ended up with 16pts & 10 boards and who knows how many bruises, I think the physical play woke Bacot up a little bit. RJ did struggle a bit with all the doubles he caught and frankly don't think his team mates looked to make them pay for those doubles like they could have. Ingram and Ryan not jump shooting well allowed them to get away with those doubles. I do think RJ took some bad shots, I think out of frustration. Ryan still was not shooting well but he did end up with 7 boards and a couple steals, he put in work but that jumper has to start falling, he is getting really open looks.

Cadeau, yeah, some of his fouls were BS considering what was happening on the other end but simply put you don't help us sitting on the bench in foul trouble. He ended up with 4pts and a couple assists in 15mins. Withers is getting better, it feels like small steps for now but he is getting more effective. But dang it, the just you have nothing but still try to make it work stuff, stop it! Just move your feet and get in to position that you can actually score, slow down. Jalen back down to 8mins in this one, got 2pts, 2 boards, an assist, and 2 blocks in 8mins, good production for his minutes. I was a bit surprised we didn't see High in this game, felt like when Pitt had the 2 slimy brothers out there that High would have been a great matchup to them with his motor and that lil nasty streak.

Finally, Seth came up big for us again, 10pts and some in your face tough defense, did I see his elbows nearly touching the rim on that opps finish dunk? His opps slam and Wit's 1 handed stick back slam were fun to watch! Oh, and that HUGE momentum changing trey right at the half time buzzer gave us the lead at the half and I don't think we lost the lead from there.

Oh, I forgot to mention a huge stat, with all the extra physical nonsense, we ended up comitting total of 9TOs and had 12 assists on 23 made baskets with our best assist guy in foul trouble and limited to 15mins.

IN all, big road win on a night where the other team feasted on home cookin and forced a fight more than a basketball game, I strongly feel we lose this game last season, actually we did lose this game last season! Huge game up next with Clemson, they are getting a lot of hype right now, game will not be as dirty but it will be physical and Brownel will have his guys ready, will not be easy.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Was wondering this last night…. You watch that game and how could you want your child to play for Pitt? Maybe I’m biased, but it is ugly basketball with little redeeming value.
I firmly believe, a couple of losing seasons will torpedo that program, cause winning ugly is still winning but losing ugly is just fugly.

 

[Steat]

Withers dunk reminded me of Manek's dunk against UCLA in the NCAA tournament. The comparison stops there, but I'm thinking that some of the upcoming opponents may have this dunk in back of their minds. It sure surprised me. Heck, give us more.

Can't find Wither's dunk on You Tube yet.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Ingram gets the board and takes off on the break, the entire trip up court Pitt is grabbing his hands and arms, he had to be fouled at least 3 different times on that break, he slips it to Bacot for the flush but not a single whistle?

Yep, good ol' no. 5 on pitt was hacking H.I. all the way up the court and the refs ignored it the whole way. It's pretty ridiculous the crap that so-called "physical" teams get away with.

 

[imajericho]

They didn't hit from three partly because of how good our defense played.

They missed like 8 wide-open 3s. Some of them were from a dude who hits 44% from 3 too. But he is in a multi game slump now.

 

[Heelicious]

One other thing not sure if it’s been mentioned here. Ingram couldn’t buy a bucket til quite last but still was game mvp IMO. 15 rebounds, several assist no turnovers. Busted his butt on both ends. I love his attitude, motor and abilities.

In comparison- (someone on the team last year that not everyone Loved) would pout if his shot was off and just give up on defense, passing, etc and just jack up every shot trying to shoot himself out of coldness.

These guys are like 180 degrees- opposites re attitude, hustle, and value contributed toward wins when their shot isn’t falling.

 

[gary-7]

They didn't hit from three largely because of how good our defense played.

Yep. FIFY.

 

[gary-7]

Yep, good ol' no. 5 on pitt was hacking H.I. all the way up the court and the refs ignored it the whole way. It's pretty ridiculous the crap that so-called "physical" teams get away with.

...and Cadeau got smacked in the face right in front of the ref in the same drive that got him called for a highly questionable foul.

 

[DSouthr]

Yep, good ol' no. 5 on pitt was hacking H.I. all the way up the court and the refs ignored it the whole way. It's pretty ridiculous the crap that so-called "physical" teams get away with.

That was more dirty from Pitt than physical, all the grabbing and arm locks, swinging elbows on rebounds, all that should have been stopped in the first 5mins was not stopped but allowed to ramp up. Hubert was pissed and he had every right to be but to allow all that yet call every chippy they could on Cadeau and Ryan? I am that guy that hates to talk about the refs but this was over the line. If Pitt is allowed to keep on doing this mark my words, they will end up with a nasty on court brawl between players and someone could get hurt from it.

 

[dlew71]

That was more dirty from Pitt than physical, all the grabbing and arm locks, swinging elbows on rebounds, all that should have been stopped in the first 5mins was not stopped but allowed to ramp up. Hubert was pissed and he had every right to be but to allow all that yet call every chippy they could on Cadeau and Ryan? I am that guy that hates to talk about the refs but this was over the line. If Pitt is allowed to keep on doing this mark my words, they will end up with a nasty on court brawl between players and someone could get hurt from it.

And it starts with the pitt staff

 

[TarHeelMark]

And it starts with the pitt staff

Jeff Crap-el learned it all from Lord Voldemort

 

[adwood81]

I don't think there are going to be a lot of teams that are offensively challenged who beat us this year in the regular season. Villanova has been the only exception and Nova shot like 20% higher from the FT line that game compared to their season average. So got a bit unlucky in that loss. So far this year against the top 100 BartTorvik teams:

Northern Iowa (63rd in adj off efficiency) - W
Villanova (58th) - L
Arkansas (59th) - W
Tennessee (41st) - W
UConn (7th) - L
Kentucky (6th) - L
Oklahoma (74th) - W
Pittsburgh (78th) - W

Clemson is 15th in the country in offensive efficiency and shoots the ball really well. So that will be an interesting test. Our three-game run of really good defense has come against the 74th, 288th, and 78th-ranked offenses in the country. Clemson will provide a better test, at least on paper.

I think these grind-you-out teams are really good matchups for us. You need to be able to score against UNC to beat them.

We didn't score for the first 6:30 and still ended the game averaging more than 1.0 points-per-possession.

But I'm guessing a lot of conference games will look like this. Some guys will play really well. Others will struggle. But hopefully everyone does something positive to contribute even though their shots aren't falling. Win, move on and stay healthy.

Clemson has a test tonight. Will be interesting to see how that goes. I don’t think they have played the competition the Heels have. Saturday will be interesting