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Anyone surprised at how badly Pelosi cucked Donald yesterday?

If I have issues with the exchange?

Dadika mentioned drunk posting... I thought maybe you had relapsed. So, I asked you. Frankly, I wasn't expecting an honest answer.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. That's out of my control and I tend not to worry about such things. I think Dadika was just trying to cover up the fact that he tends to be long on statements and short on proof.
 
You can believe whatever you want to believe. That's out of my control and I tend not to worry about such things. I think Dadika was just trying to cover up the fact that he tends to be long on statements and short on proof.
I will believe what I want to believe. I always have.

I think Dadika was just making a general observation. I don't think he really cares more than what he said.
 
And if you're a recovering alcoholic then I take back my little jab about drunk posting and apologize. I don't joke around about that shit.
 
I will believe what I want to believe. I always have.

I think Dadika was just making a general observation. I don't think he really cares more than what he said.

And all I did was answer that observation. I disagreed with it and I told him why. I think you guys are making this out to be more than it really is, which is fine by me. I won't be the angry one here. :cool:
 
And if you're a recovering alcoholic then I take back my little jab about drunk posting and apologize. I don't joke around about that shit.

No, don't take it back, it isn't a big deal. I wouldn't even say I was an alcoholic anyways. It's not like I drank all the time. I just felt I was drinking too much. I still have a drink every once in a while (I had a glass of champaign on New Year's Eve) but I just felt like I needed to calm it down as I start to get older. Trust me, I didn't take your comments personal.
 
Governor Cuomo of New York ordered the needle on WTC-1 to be lit up in pink for celebration of the passing of the "abortion up to delivery" bill in New York state. Previously abortion was illegal in New York state after 24 weeks from conception. People are working to get avowed Catholic Cuomo excommunicated from his church. Catholics are called to defend life at any stage.

The legislators and onlookers in New York capitol cheered loudly upon passing of this bill. To each their own, but it makes me personally ill, discouraged, to see people cheer what amounts to a new bill legalizing the termination of a viable human life, if this life were separated (removed from) the mother.

An important distinction in this bill and in many abortion bills is the allowing of abortion to protect the life OR HEALTH of the mother. Saving a mother's life is objective, but what constitutes the mother's (emotional, psychological, financial) health can be quite subjective. And - I believe the New York bill removed the requirement that the person providing the abortion be a licensed doctor.

I totally understand that nobody sets out hoping to get an abortion, and few if any ever feel good about having an abortion. There are many cases of sorrow and depression after abortions. I also understand that late term abortions are rare compared to early term abortions. But any one life saved, and given over to one of so many families awaiting adoption, seems like a wonderful outcome for all involved.

I just believe there are TWO lives with individual rights (to life) - referred to as endowed upon us by a Creator in the Declaration of Independence and protected under our Constitution.

If there is only ONE life (the mother) in the discussion, and if the fetus / baby is not a life, and therefore has zero right to life until outside the womb, then I agree with the "abortion at any stage" argument. If the fetus/baby is not a protected LIFE - we should think of it no differently than the mother choosing to remove a tumor. Women should certainly control the right to remove this blob of cells, or whatever they call it. If its not a life, if there is only one (mother's) life in question, no argument against abortion from me.

A group named Heartbeat International recently posted quotes from 3 licensed OB/GYNs each with 30+ years of experience, and collectively they've delivered thousands of babies. Their consensus medical statement of fact: NO medical condition exists (or have they ever experienced) that requires a late-term abortion to save the life of the mother. None. There are rare conditions that require DELIVERY of the baby late-in-term to save the LIFE of the mother, but never a late term abortion to save the life of the mother. (Dr. Lawrence Koning, Dr. Omar Hamada, Dr. David McKnight)
I know they like to present this as championing women's rights (this lighting it up in pink), and I'm not fully-versed on exactly what was put into this new law, but it seems a bit extreme, to me.

I'm not a proponent of abortions at all. But, as I've said, I'm never in a situation that it affects me directly. So, I try to avoid much confrontation over it.
 
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I know they like to present this as championing women's rights (this lighting it up in pink), and I'm not fully-versed on exactly what was put into this new law, but it seems a bit extreme, to me.

I'm not a proponent of abortions at all. But, as I've said, I'm never in a situation that it affects me directly. So, I try to avoid much confrontation over it.

I tend to agree with this, but the thing is you're never going to be rid of abortions. Banning them will only create a black market which will, in turn, create more death and crime.
 
I tend to agree with this, but the thing is you're never going to be rid of abortions. Banning them will only create a black market which will, in turn, create more death and crime.
I am 51 years old. I don't think we will see a full ban on abortion in my lifetime. Not saying that's good or bad.... its just not happening. Even if the Supreme Court got super-stacked with conservatives, pro-lifers, etc. What I COULD see happening, is the Supreme Court overruling abortion being decided at a US federal level, and turning abortion issues back to each state. On this issue, returning to federalism, states rights, tenth amendment.

I'd just personally prefer that laws would be passed and upheld that defends life (all states) in the third trimester, when life has been proven to be viable.

**Not that this matters to the baby in question**.... but while public opinion is opposed to banning all abortions at any stage, public opinion strongly supports defending of life in the third trimester (and I take it that some on this board agree).

**by this comment I marked above**, having public opinion determine the rights of the viable baby - in true democracy form - people vote on whether the viable baby lives or dies - is IMO akin to 3 wolves and a sheep carrying out "democracy" in voting on what to eat for supper. Public opinion and pure democracy can be an assault on individuals and minorities rights, especially ones with no means of defending themselves.

I also totally understand how pro-choice people are very emotional and hostile toward any changes in abortion policy, for fear of a "slippery slope" -an unrelenting incremental march by conservatives until no abortion is allowed. That's why the pro-choice people are unwilling to support any commonly- supported (by non-partisan, non-religious people) compromise.
 
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I am 51 years old. I don't think we will see a full ban on abortion in my lifetime. Not saying that's good or bad.... its just not happening. Even if the Supreme Court got super-stacked with conservatives, pro-lifers, etc. What I COULD see happening, is the Supreme Court overruling abortion being decided at a US federal level, and turning abortion issues back to each state. On this issue, returning to federalism, states rights, tenth amendment.

I'd just personally prefer that laws would be passed and upheld that defends life (all states) in the third trimester, when life has been proven to be viable.

**Not that this matters to the baby in question**.... but while public opinion is opposed to banning all abortions at any stage, public opinion strongly supports defending of life in the third trimester (and I take it that some on this board agree).

**by this comment I marked above**, having public opinion determine the rights of the viable baby - in true democracy form - people vote on whether the viable baby lives or dies - is IMO akin to 3 wolves and a sheep carrying out "democracy" in voting on what to eat for supper. Public opinion and pure democracy can be an assault on individuals and minorities rights, especially ones with no means of defending themselves.

I also totally understand how pro-choice people are very emotional and hostile toward any changes in abortion policy, for fear of a "slippery slope" -an unrelenting incremental march by conservatives until no abortion is allowed. That's why the pro-choice people are unwilling to support any commonly- supported (by non-partisan, non-religious people) compromise.

It's definitely a states rights issue as per the Constitution.
 
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Horseshit. I’ve never met a single person on the left that thinks a woman should be able to have an elective abortion up until the due date.

Well, then your sample size of met-people must be pretty small then. I've met several people that believe that, most of whom are "on the left". And...I believe that myself.

It actually shocks me that more on the right aren't ok with this. It's not like the fetuses being aborted are going to be the future leaders of the country. They're being aborted for a reason. And if you don't let it happen, those are the ones you're gonna end up paying for throughout their childhood and probably into their adulthood as well.
 
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It's definitely a states rights issue as per the Constitution.
Correct - I know its not so popular in some sections of society today, but that's what the founders intended - 50 different states, with their own laws, and with state jurisdiction over most matters for people in the states.

They thought - if you don't like the laws of the state you live in - you could move to a state more in alignment with your views OR (more importantly) you could work to get the laws of your state changed the way you see fit, via grass roots efforts. An individual working to change state law, difficult, but not impossible. An individual changing federal law, nearly impossible.

The states rights issue is important to me, and should be important to all individuals IMO. There is a reason the founders created the electoral college and the US Senate structure- to protect rights of individual states and their inhabitants.

If we just evolve to popular vote, no states rights, no "2 senators for each state" etc that you sometimes hear - how do we become any better than other democracies? What would be the purpose of having states at all at that point? Just for geographical reference?
 
Well, then your sample size of met-people must be pretty small then. I've met several people that believe that, most of whom are "on the left". And...I believe that myself.

It actually shocks me that more on the right aren't ok with this. It's not like the fetuses being aborted are going to be the future leaders of the country. They're being aborted for a reason. And if you don't let it happen, those are the ones you're gonna end up paying for throughout their childhood and probably into their adulthood as well.

Well then I guess you’re the first. Anything to avoid welfare...
 
I knew a girl who had two kids out of wedlock. She went down to get some help from the government and they basically told her that they couldn't do much unless she had another kid...so she had another kid. The whole system is jacked up.
 
I knew a girl who had two kids out of wedlock. She went down to get some help from the government and they basically told her that they couldn't do much unless she had another kid...so she had another kid. The whole system is jacked up.

That is probably my least favorite thing about America. Love this country but god damn we have some awful "regulations".
 
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I knew a girl who had two kids out of wedlock. She went down to get some help from the government and they basically told her that they couldn't do much unless she had another kid...so she had another kid. The whole system is jacked up.
She messed-up by not being an illegal immigrant. They get all the freebies by just crossing the border.
 
She messed-up by not being an illegal immigrant. They get all the freebies by just crossing the border.

Do you know how many times I've been behind someone at Walmart, who had two overflowing carts of food, didn't speak English, and they pulled out an EBT card that they didn't even know how to use properly? Now imagine that you're really poor like I was once upon a time and you're scrounging up a couple bucks to buy bologna and bread, just so you can eat. Do you know how that looks to the citizens of this country?
 
Do you know how many times I've been behind someone at Walmart, who had two overflowing carts of food, didn't speak English, and they pulled out an EBT card that they didn't even know how to use properly? Now imagine that you're really poor like I was once upon a time and you're scrounging up a couple bucks to buy bologna and bread, just so you can eat. Do you know how that looks to the citizens of this country?

It looks like you should get an EBT card.
 
Do you know how many times I've been behind someone at Walmart, who had two overflowing carts of food, didn't speak English, and they pulled out an EBT card that they didn't even know how to use properly? Now imagine that you're really poor like I was once upon a time and you're scrounging up a couple bucks to buy bologna and bread, just so you can eat. Do you know how that looks to the citizens of this country?
Soooo... the woman who couldn't speak English, at Walmart, with you, and had an EBT card... was fresh from Mexico, or Guatemala, illegally, and getting her Fed freebies?

Do I know how it looks to what citizens outside this country? They see what you see, when you see it?
 
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I didn't qualify for one, even if I wanted it.

If you could genuinely only afford bologna and bread then you should easily qualify. And if you wouldn't qualify, then we should expand food assistance programs to ensure that poor folks can eat.
 
I would ask you to tell me what you think, but I know you already made your decision before you looked at the facts.
Facts? An anecdote of what you claim happened to you... is facts? You don't even know the facts. You just know that, in your story, there is a woman who wasn't speaking English and had difficulty using the EBT card.

What are the facts?
 
If you could genuinely only afford bologna and bread then you should easily qualify. And if you wouldn't qualify, then we should expand food assistance programs to ensure that poor folks can eat.

The crazy part of all this was that I was in the process of improving my value to society. Going back to school and getting a better job so that I could pay more taxes to fund worthless people who are only here to get a free handout. Those people also get free medical care. Something that I couldn't afford due to laws like the ACA. Now I'm $100k in medical debt while illegals get free medical care, but I'm sure that's okay with you people as well. I'll be fine. However, how many citizens are you willing to kill with these policies? Poverty is a serious cause of death, and these policies cause poverty.
 
Facts? An anecdote of what you claim happened to you... is facts? You don't even know the facts. You just know that, in your story, there is a woman who wasn't speaking English and had difficulty using the EBT card.

What are the facts?

I'm talking about all the numbers on how much we spend on illegal immigrants. Those numbers are out there on the web. They aren't hard to find.
 
The crazy part of all this was that I was in the process of improving my value to society. Going back to school and getting a better job so that I could pay more taxes to fund worthless people who are only here to get a free handout. Those people also get free medical care. Something that I couldn't afford due to laws like the ACA. Now I'm $100k in medical debt while illegals get free medical care, but I'm sure that's okay with you people as well. I'll be fine. However, how many citizens are you willing to kill with these policies? Poverty is a serious cause of death, and these policies cause poverty.

Liberals aren't the ones cutting social programs. If you couldn't afford food then its liberals that would argue you should be able to get assistance. Its the right wing that would call you a lazy mooch that's stealing other's tax dollars.
 
Liberals aren't the ones cutting social programs. If you couldn't afford food then its liberals that would argue you should be able to get assistance. Its the right wing that would call you a lazy mooch that's stealing other's tax dollars.

I understand that, but it really isn't the point I'm trying to make. My point is that we should be doing right by the people in this country, not prioritizing illegal immigrants over our citizens.
 
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Do you know how many times I've been behind someone at Walmart, who had two overflowing carts of food, didn't speak English, and they pulled out an EBT /QUOTE]Are you saying speaking proper english should be a requirement to get EBT?
 
I understand that, but it really isn't the point I'm trying to make. My point is that we should be doing right by the people in this country, not prioritizing illegal immigrants over our citizens.

The vast majority of people getting govt assistance are not illegal immigrants. So how are we prioritizing them over our citizens??
 
I know they like to present this as championing women's rights (this lighting it up in pink), and I'm not fully-versed on exactly what was put into this new law, but it seems a bit extreme, to me.

So you knew about the lighting of the building in New York even when you asked me if this was happening in Lynchburg? Was that your attempt at humor?
 
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I tend to agree with this, but the thing is you're never going to be rid of abortions. Banning them will only create a black market which will, in turn, create more death and crime.

I mentioned in an earlier poast that I have a hard time reconciling my thoughts on abortion. On one hand, it's hard to say I support the killing of an unborn child - for any reason. But on the other hand, many of these kids will grow up in poverty and many of them go on to be a drain on society. So what do you do?
 
No, and that's the problem.

You're right, I wish we never let the scum like Albert Einstein, Sergey Brin, Oscar de la Renta, Mariano Rivera, Wafaa El-Sadr, and Leo Szilard into this country. We'd be so much better off without these parasites who contributed nothing at all to MAKING AMERICA GREAT! MAGA!

:rolleyes:
 
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