Baltimore

[HighwayHeel]

Here's an idea, when a policeman wants you to stop, STOP!
I gues once you have stolen, sold drugs, or killed someone you are above listening to police.
Here another idea, parents be parents instead of teenagers.
Instead of churches preaching that blacks are still being treated as slaves, maybe they should preach responsibility. If you are going to screw the neighborhood take the responsibility to financially support your kids. If you're going to use my money for financial support, then give me some say so.

I know its America, and you can do as you please. Enjoy the downfall.

 

[coryfly]

Los Angeles has taken a step in the right direction by starting to use body cameras. I applaud this effort by the police commission. IMHO this would eliminate many issues with no one there but the officer and the suspects, this can also be used in police shootings to verify if it was justified or not. The camera will see what the officer sees. Hopefully it includes provisions for automatic termination/prosecution for violation of usage requirements. There should be no way an officer can manually override the camera.

http://news.yahoo.com/commission-ap...ras-221327121.html?.tsrc=samsungwn&.sep=table

I like the idea of body cameras. It saves people from idiot cops who aren't in a position they should be in and it saves cops from idiot criminals and also false injustice cries based on ignorance.

 

[Raising Heel]

This is her Quote from Saturday's presser when a reporter asked her a question, directly from the article: "But when one reporter asked to comment on how Baltimore police responded to the protestors she said she instructed officers to allow protestors to express themselves and that “we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well.”

You're talking in circles. I've already pointed out that the media only quoted half of the sentence, which is exactly what you just demonstrated with your post above. She's talking about unintended consequences, not policy. Yes, phrasing matters, so here's some clarification for you. If you still insist that she was intentionally allowing looting and destruction, well....

...you're desperate to believe the willful misinterpretations of her quote.

 

[Baby Debo]

White people don't care when a white criminal gets killed. Blacks elevate them to sainthood. Brown was a criminal and was trying to kill the officer that killed him. Trayvon was a criminal. Garner resisted arrest and was a habitual petty criminal. He was not choked, but suffered cardiac arrest. The guy in Charleston tased the officer, maybe twice.
Facts matter.

Dean, the officer in Charleston was not tased. He moved the taser over by the victim after he shot him in the back. So because the individuals listed above had broken the law, their deaths are justified??? Is that what you are saying?? What crime did Trayvon Martin break? I didn't know selling individual cigarettes was a capital offense punishable by death. Hmm, i do remember his autopsy stating that his windpipe was partially crushed, you don't get that from a heart attack. Dean, have you broken any laws, including traffic offenses???

 

[chickenhunter]

You're talking in circles. I've already pointed out that the media only quoted half of the sentence, which is exactly what you just demonstrated with your post above. She's talking about unintended consequences, not policy. Yes, phrasing matters, so here's some clarification for you. If you still insist that she was intentionally allowing looting and destruction, well....

Ok, I can see how this was confusing. I admit that. However, are we going to allow people to say things then add well-placed, context changing, parenthesis-inserted "clarification" comments? I'm going to keep that in mind from this point forward when commenting on threads. That way, if I say something to butt hurt someone, I can return and change the true meaning in to something less offensive.

 

[gteeitup]

good to see a guy that knows all about crime, murder, and cover up advising residents of baltimore...ray lewis, the favorite son.

 

[gunslingerdick]

good to see a guy that knows all about crime, murder, and cover up advising residents of baltimore...ray lewis, the favorite son.

Saw that too. I watched the 5 minute video he released on social media. Did you see that? Nice message but it kind of rings hollow when a guy with his past is talking about how "violence is never the answer". He also gets on my nerves every time he gets passionate about something. His delivery is half preacher, half gang member. It's irritating. But I do applaud him for bailing on the NFL draft and saying he was going to stay in Bmore to help. That's a big move.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Dean, the officer in Charleston was not tased. He moved the taser over by the victim after he shot him in the back. So because the individuals listed above had broken the law, their deaths are justified??? Is that what you are saying?? What crime did Trayvon Martin break? I didn't know selling individual cigarettes was a capital offense punishable by death. Hmm, i do remember his autopsy stating that his windpipe was partially crushed, you don't get that from a heart attack. Dean, have you broken any laws, including traffic offenses???

I don't think I would be opposed to body cameras (with audio). But here's the deal - just like instant replay has hampered the refs ability to officiate games, we are tying the hands of our LEOs. They are going to be so afraid to do anything now. And criminals are not stupid. They understand that cops' hands are tied and they will use that to the fullest.

I guess my thing is this...would you rather give the criminals too much power or deal with the select few cops that have overreached in their authority?

 

[UNC71-00]

I don't think I would be opposed to body cameras (with audio). But here's the deal - just like instant replay has hampered the refs ability to officiate games, we are tying the hands of our LEOs. They are going to be so afraid to do anything now. And criminals are not stupid. They understand that cops' hands are tied and they will use that to the fullest.

I guess my thing is this...would you rather give the criminals too much power or deal with the select few cops that have overreached in their authority?

Actually, and I know we will disagree, I would rather take care of the lousy cops then worry about criminals trying to somehow use the cop's body camera to their advantage.

 

[DeanFor President]

Dean, the officer in Charleston was not tased. He moved the taser over by the victim after he shot him in the back. So because the individuals listed above had broken the law, their deaths are justified??? Is that what you are saying?? What crime did Trayvon Martin break? I didn't know selling individual cigarettes was a capital offense punishable by death. Hmm, i do remember his autopsy stating that his windpipe was partially crushed, you don't get that from a heart attack. Dean, have you broken any laws, including traffic offenses???

Do some digging, and the Charleston video has been analyzed, and there is a taser wire, possibly two, dragging from the officer when the suspect turns to run- one in his forearm, and one in his lower body, possibly his leg. You can see them if you bother to look. THe handle part of the taser was bouncing behind the suspect as he ran, because he dropped it after realizing the wires were in the officer.
Trayvon was a petty thief that had stolen jewelry and burglary tools in his backpack. The jewelry matched items stolen from the same neighborhood. It was not reported as a crime due to a policy of NOT REPORTING these crimes to falsely make it appear as if crime in the schools is reduced. He attacked and was beating Zimmerman, and got killed because he picked the wrong guy to attack. If Zimmerman had not been armed, he likely would have been killed.
Selling cigs is not a capital offense. If it was, he would not have made it past the other multiple times he had been arrested for the SAME OFFENSE and other charges. He resisted arrest, always a brilliant idea, and was briefly restrained. He did not die there, but in the ambulance an hour later due to cardiac arrest.

And yes, I've sped, or rolled thru a stop sign... But I've never run from a cop, resisted arrest, charged at a cop with a gun in his hand, or tried to take a cop's gun or taser and use it against him. So there's that.

 

[BillyL]

White people don't care when a white criminal gets killed. Blacks elevate them to sainthood. Brown was a criminal and was trying to kill the officer that killed him. Trayvon was a criminal. Garner resisted arrest and was a habitual petty criminal. He was not choked, but suffered cardiac arrest. The guy in Charleston tased the officer, maybe twice.
Facts matter.

Don't let the fact that Officer Michael Slager was fired by the Charleston Chief of Police get in your way after that incident. Slager was never tased btw . .

 

[UNC71-00]

@DeanFor President I just looked for any report or video which showed the cop in Charleston being tased first and I couldn't find anything. You have a link?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Actually, and I know we will disagree, I would rather take care of the lousy cops then worry about criminals trying to somehow use the cop's body camera to their advantage.

I don't think I understand your post. From the way I read it, you and I are in agreement for sure. Can you explain?

 

[gunslingerdick]

@DeanFor President I just looked for any report or video which showed the cop in Charleston being tased first and I couldn't find anything. You have a link?

Dean is correct. I have seen it too. I'll look around.

 

[UNC71-00]

I don't think I understand your post. From the way I read it, you and I are in agreement for sure. Can you explain?

I think cops should have body cameras and that they should not be able to turn them off. If a suspect can somehow use that to his advantage, so be it.

 

[UNC71-00]

Dean is correct. I have seen it too. I'll look around.

FTR I wasn't doubting, just saying I couldn't find.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I think cops should have body cameras and that they should not be able to turn them off. If a suspect can somehow use that to his advantage, so be it.

No, we're in agreement then. I think body cameras would be great. Costly, but great. The thing is, I think many of those that desire body cameras on cops would end up not liking the outcome of body cameras on cops.

 

[DeanFor President]

Body cameras appear to be a necessity, for protection, safety, and a clear visual record, and will benefit all parties. I suspect they will prove the officers acted properly more times than they didn't.

 

[keysersosay#1]

Body cameras will be a standard thing on all police officers across the nation within 5 years

 

[lovetheHeels!]

I read that the Charleston cop was not tazed, but they think that Scott had the tazer and tried to taze him but the tazer cartridge became disconnected which is why it was laying on the ground. Scott then ran away and was shot at 8 times, not sure how many hit him.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I read that the Charleston cop was not tazed, but they think that Scott had the tazer and tried to taze him but the tazer cartridge became disconnected which is why it was laying on the ground. Scott then ran away and was shot at 8 times, not sure how many hit him.

Yeah, I remember watching that and thinking, "daaaammmn, dude needs some time on the range." I think he hit him with 3 shots. 3/8...only in baseball is that considered "successful".

 

[Baby Debo]

According to your statement, you're a criminal also. So getting shot and killed by a policeman is justifiable for your crimes. There's no gray area, you break the law, you deserve to be shot and killed.

White people don't care when a white criminal gets killed. Blacks elevate them to sainthood. Brown was a criminal and was trying to kill the officer that killed him. Trayvon was a criminal. Garner resisted arrest and was a habitual petty criminal. He was not choked, but suffered cardiac arrest. The guy in Charleston tased the officer, maybe twice.
Facts matter.

 

[gunslingerdick]

According to your statement, you're a criminal also. So getting shot and killed by a policeman is justifiable for your crimes. There's no gray area, you break the law, you deserve to be shot and killed.

Why is there no gray area?

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

You're talking in circles. I've already pointed out that the media only quoted half of the sentence, which is exactly what you just demonstrated with your post above. She's talking about unintended consequences, not policy. Yes, phrasing matters, so here's some clarification for you. If you still insist that she was intentionally allowing looting and destruction, well....

Yes, I insist the Baltimore mayor is responsible for allowing the situation to get out of hand. Breaking news for those willing to defend the mayor:


Despite a firm denial by Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, a senior law enforcement source charges that she gave an order for police to stand down as riots broke out Monday night, raising more questions about whether some of the violence and looting could have been prevented.
The source, who is involved in the enforcement efforts, confirmed to Fox News there was a direct order from the mayor to her police chief Monday night, effectively tying the hands of officers as they were pelted with rocks and bottles. "
Asked directly if the mayor was the one who gave that order, the source said: "You are God damn right it was."
The claim follows criticism of the mayor for, over the weekend, saying they were giving space to those who "wished to destroy."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/29/source-baltimore-mayor-ordered-police-to-stand-down/

 

[gunslingerdick]

Yes, I insist the Baltimore mayor is responsible for allowing the situation to get out of hand. Breaking news for those willing to defend the mayor:


Despite a firm denial by Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, a senior law enforcement source charges that she gave an order for police to stand down as riots broke out Monday night, raising more questions about whether some of the violence and looting could have been prevented.
The source, who is involved in the enforcement efforts, confirmed to Fox News there was a direct order from the mayor to her police chief Monday night, effectively tying the hands of officers as they were pelted with rocks and bottles. "
Asked directly if the mayor was the one who gave that order, the source said: "You are God damn right it was."
The claim follows criticism of the mayor for, over the weekend, saying they were giving space to those who "wished to destroy."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/29/source-baltimore-mayor-ordered-police-to-stand-down/

 

[Raising Heel]

This wasn't directed at you, but....

...are we going to allow people to say things then add well-placed, context changing, parenthesis-inserted "clarification" comments?

Absolutely, if the media continues to intentionally manipulate quotes to sensationalize a story. Accuracy matters, at least to me.

 

[nctransplant]

Yes, I insist the Baltimore mayor is responsible for allowing the situation to get out of hand. Breaking news for those willing to defend the mayor:


Despite a firm denial by Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, a senior law enforcement source charges that she gave an order for police to stand down as riots broke out Monday night, raising more questions about whether some of the violence and looting could have been prevented.
The source, who is involved in the enforcement efforts, confirmed to Fox News there was a direct order from the mayor to her police chief Monday night, effectively tying the hands of officers as they were pelted with rocks and bottles. "
Asked directly if the mayor was the one who gave that order, the source said: "You are God damn right it was."
The claim follows criticism of the mayor for, over the weekend, saying they were giving space to those who "wished to destroy."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/29/source-baltimore-mayor-ordered-police-to-stand-down/

She is just trying to cover her own a??. I saw her a few weeks ago on a morning show and I don't think she is the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[Raising Heel]

An unnamed source cited by Fox News?

 

[Raising Heel]

Tell you what, @Nuk'EM Heels. As soon as a few more "law enforcement sources" come forward to corroborate this account of events, I'll stand corrected.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

An unnamed source cited by Fox News?

It is absolutely legit, NYT/WAPO/LAT/CNN/CBS/NBC et al do it all the time.

 

[gunslingerdick]

An unnamed source cited by Fox News?

You know that's how every media outlet rolls. Sources are frequently "unnamed sources". Why would you wait until now to express skepticism? Or are you calling into question all past reports and all future reports that cite "an unnamed source"?

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Tell you what, @Nuk'EM Heels. As soon as a few more "law enforcement sources" come forward to corroborate this account of events, I'll stand corrected.

They have come forward and it has been reported in various venues. This is the first I have heard of "Senior Law Enforcement Officials coming forward and stating point blank the police were ordered to stand down on Monday and let it go...

 

[Raising Heel]

It is absolutely legit, NYT/WAPO/LAT/CNN/CBS/NBC et al do it all the time.

You know that's how every media outlet rolls. Sources are frequently "unnamed sources".

I had no idea. Thanks for the lesson in journalism, I guess.

Why would you wait until now to express skepticism? Or are you calling into question all past reports and all future reports that cite "an unnamed source"?

Hunh? I hold a general skepticism of reports citing unnamed "sources" for obvious reasons, not to mention their proliferation has reached ridiculous levels.

They have come forward and it has been reported in various venues.

Any that don't cite Fox News as the original source?

 

[Baby Debo]

GSD,

What Dean wrote was that all those who have been killed by police were criminals because they broke the law, not at the time that they were killed, but at some time they did so there deaths are justified. My statement in response to him, by him having broken laws also, he is now an open target to be shot or choked by law enforcement personnel.

 

[Raising Heel]

Yes, I insist the Baltimore mayor is responsible for allowing the situation to get out of hand. Breaking news for those willing to defend the mayor:

For the record, there's a significant difference between "allowing the situation to get out of hand" and conspiring with rioters to allow them to loot and injure. We might be able to agree on the former, but you sound like a nut job when you insist it must have been the latter.

Also, there's a significant difference between "those willing to defend the mayor" and those trying to objectively understand the events that have transpired. I know nothing about her, her qualifications, her politics, or Baltimore government in general. I have no interest in defending her. I'm simply seeking information and clarity.

 

[chickenhunter]

I hold a general skepticism of reports citing unnamed "sources" for obvious reasons, not to mention their proliferation has reached ridiculous levels.

So, if the source reveals their name, it makes the information more reliable?

Journalists often use the unnamed sources part to keep information flowing to them. If a person knows some information and will share it with journalist is mostly because the person trusts the journalist not to reveal their name because the information they are giving the journalist is frequently not public knowledge or hasnt been released yet. The journalist will not share the name because they (journalist) wants to keep getting information from the source.

 

[Raising Heel]

Journalists often use the unnamed sources part to keep information flowing to them. If a person knows some information and will share it with journalist is mostly because the person trusts the journalist not to reveal their name because the information they are giving the journalist is frequently not public knowledge or hasnt been released yet. The journalist will not share the name because they (journalist) wants to keep getting information from the source.

Dude.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I had no idea. Thanks for the lesson in journalism, I guess.

Ok,..no need to be a dick about it. I've just never seen you state your skepticism of unnamed sources with such vehemence before and it appeared you were doing so just because it was Nuk. You've always had a hard-on for debating with him.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but I'd like to step back from specifically Baltimore and touch on something I feel like is part of this whole thing and hasn't been mentioned:

Media framing of police acting violently -- There is a legitimate conversation that needs to be had about police tactics, police actions, police brutality, etc. But this isn't the angle that the media is presenting. The media (CNN, NBC, etc.) are presenting it as "police brutality SPECIFICALLY AGAINST BLACK MEN." Now the race card is involved, and as we know, that means no sane nationwide discussion can be had. Yes, in the past couple years, you've had some high-profile killings by police that involve white cop(s) killing a black male. But here's the thing.....white people are also killed by cops when they don't need to be and for the same reasons (potentially shoddy arrest tactics, overly aggressive tacts, etc etc). Look it up, lots of white people have been killed by cops in the past two years too. But instead, the media frames this is as a white vs black thing, and because of that, the topic is doomed. NBC will take its race-baiting liberal side, Fox News will respond by trying to refute it at all costs, CNN will be somewhere in the middle. All sides will stretch the truth, or highlight certain things to shock viewers into clicks and views, and yeah, discussion becomes impossible.

I was at a sports bar a month ago, when that Charleston video came out. One TV in the whole place was on CNN rather than sports, and that TV happened to be right near my booth. I kid you not, CNN ran the video on a loop for the entire hour I was there. The entire hour. On a loop. White cop shooting black man in the back. On a loop. For one hour. Full screen. Then split screen with panelists on the other half. Then back to full screen. Then split screen. Then back to full screen. Shit....I saw it enough times just by glancing around the room that I was ready to riot too.

So I think we seriously need to look at a couple things:

1). Police tactics, specifically in how they arrest and how they're trained to shoot to kill.
2). How media is framing this issue. I think our media is truly failing us.

But instead, we're talking about a riot. I don't know man, this country is broken. It really is. Politics is broken, everything is just broken. I have zero faith in anything and anyone.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

For the record, there's a significant difference between "allowing the situation to get out of hand" and conspiring with rioters to allow them to loot and injure. We might be able to agree on the former, but you sound like a nut job when you insist it must have been the latter.

Also, there's a significant difference between "those willing to defend the mayor" and those trying to objectively understand the events that have transpired. I know nothing about her, her qualifications, her politics, or Baltimore government in general. I have no interest in defending her. I'm simply seeking information and clarity.

I never said or implied the mayor conspired with the protestors to riot, loot, and destroy. I said she is responsible for giving explicit instructions to the police to stand down, which directly resulted in things being allowed to get out of hand. She gave the direction to police to give the protestors the space to destroy - her words, not mine.