Maybe about Cormac getting the Jackie Manual treatment from 3 point range.
Quick stuff (Clemson game 2)...
- Thread starter gary-7
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Woj ain't playing difference minutes making 3's, and if he does then it's a wrap already.
If Cormac can't be a threat from beyond the arc, we are not a contender. That was never Jackie's role. Don't get the this comment at all.
The great philosopher Ozzie Guillen once said
"Good teams win games, horses**t teams have meetings"
He also said " beer taste better when you win". 😋
The stats say he’s not gonna be a threat. He has been more effective when pump faking and stepping a few feet inside the 3 point line or driving to the basket. A guy shooting his low percentage over 23 games is enough to know what to expect.
At this point in the season either you are all in or you need to get out - there is no middle ground.
This is my opinion too. Comparing Cormac Ryan to Jackie Manuel is insane. Manuel could've literally scored 0 points the entire 2004-05 season and UNC still could've won the title that year. This team's upside is more directly linked to them shooting it well (and shooting enough) from 3, which Ryan is a huge part of. Also, their upside is tied to Cadeau's play and consistency.
One of the main reasons we've had a pretty damn good season so far has been our alarmingly good 3PT percentage defense. In conference play, we're allowing 27.7% on 3's and the next-best team is allowing 31.3% from 3. That's a huge, almost flukish difference. And I'm guessing Cormac Ryan is playing a part in that good 3PT defense.
Now, I think that 3PT defense has been a little fluky. Clemson shot 1/18 in the first leg. NC State shot 2/21. Wake shot 3/20. I don't recall every defended 3, but I'm sure those 3 teams missed ample wide open looks and I'm sure some of them were missed by at least average shooters. So my question is do you think this 27.7% 3PT defense is sustainable going into March? I don't think so. And we're seeing signs of variance the other way. Georgia Tech and Florida State are bad 3PT shooting teams and shot 45%.
The counter to that has to be us making 3s. I've gone through this exercise a bunch. Almost all of the really good Roy teams had at least 3 efficient, high-volume 3PT shooters. How they got into position to make those shots can be debated and discussed. We have 2 right now.
I also think this is pretty common. A lot of good teams have a question mark with their 4th option or so and a big X-Factor is how will they produce? We have a couple of gigantic X-Factors. Ryan and Cadeau. If they're both good, we probably beat most teams. If they're both bad, we're pretty beatable.
Well if we would have lost to dook if we didn't have that meeting, I'm glad they had it. I'll also point out that in that quote, meetings is plural, one was fine but if the team feels they need to continue to have them it might be a problem.
If this team needs to have a meeting to get up like they did for duke then meet before every game. lol. It doesn’t affect any of us. Have at it boys.
If that was all that we could do to win then I think the look forward is not good. EC & Seth simply put are not ready to hit many treys this season and Paxon is not going to play enough to wiggle a needle. Cadeau and Seth can and have been contributing in other ways that have been vital in our wins.
When I look at this starting line up, I have shared consistently since even before practice began for this season, I see 2 position concerns but they are both directly related. First, we simply have not got consistent production on the offensive end from our starting wing (3 spot). Ryan was assumed to be a knock down jump shooter but we have got more from him on the defensive end more consistently than offensively. Ryan starts as our wing 3 and I don't know how else to consider his jump shooting for us as anything short of a major disappointment. The player and the position is to important to get such weak shooting from, it needs to be addressed. In my opinion we not only have a solution but we have a darn good solution. My solution is Ingram at the 3 rather than the 4.
My other concern is and has been that Ingram is short for a power forward, I am not at all dissing on how Ingram has played at the 4, hear that loud and clear. But this is a kid (Ingram) that played a lot of PG for his team last season and now we have him at the 4, he is a darn good wing and gives us a size mismatch as a wing but as a 4 he gives up length far to often, witness both Clemson games his struggle to handle Sheffler. Ingram has shown he knocks down jump shots out past the trey line, he loves to back down a smaller opponent and typically wings are smaller than power forwards.
I move Ingram to the 3 and I use both the J guys at the 4, especially when we get a team with a big 4. I go with a 6'9" atheletic 4 that has some power to his game in JWit or I go with a sweet jump shooting 6'10" guy with a 7'5" reach in Jwash. I would look at our front court as 3 bigs that interchange with Bacot always at the 5 when he is in. I can then factor Ingram in to the 4 some when we catch foul trouble in the front court and I can pull either Ryan or Seth in to the 3 when Ingram swings down to the 4. The J boyzs, I consider Jwit to be the more defensive guy and Jwash to be the offensive guy, adjust to the game what you need, a shot of defense or a shot of offense, I think we need to actively look to get JWash in position to use his mid range jumpers as well as the occasional trey open look. JWit needs to not look to force things, let the game come to him, play more of a garbage guy like Ingram does a lot of, crash the boards hard. I look at JWash and JWit for what if any consistent thing they can bring that this team needs, there are blemishes on both to be fair. From what I have seen, I fully believe JWash can be a knock down jump shooter and with his crazy length is extremely hard to stop him from being able to get his jumper off, I think it may be a near Ingram like weapon that we have not been using. Problem is you don't want JWash switching other than 4 to 5. JWit can defend 3, 4, and 5 but rushes himself way to often that leads to way to many TOs. Point is you adjust your defense to the combination you have on the floor so weak spots are not exploited as often.
If Cormac is gonna shoot <29% from 3 and 36% from 2pt land which lands him somewhere around 8th on the team for anyone with what one might call significant PT he needs less PT. I am neither trolling nor trashing but ball (stats) don't lie and until and if he gets his shooting issues worked out I simply cannot see how you keep giving him the minutes he's getting. I too would like to see more of the big lineups with Jwash, Bacot and Withers together or maybe against smaller lineups use Seth instead of Withers and vv with bigger teams use Wit instead of Ryan. Fact is if Ryan's shooting continues as is the UNC #1 seed in a regional is a pipe dream. Once again I go back to the coaching because you have to give your best 5 the most time and RC, at this point in time, does not appear to be in that group.
GO HEELS !!
What can be done to "fix" Cormac's shooting woes? We need his grit and intensity on the court, but we also need better shooting from that position.
It’s a make or miss game. Hubert said he likes the shots he’s taking. What’s the answer then? Should he take worse shots?
“I like the shots he’s taking. I think he’s getting good looks… I have no concerns at all about shot selections or missed shots. I love coaching him.”
Grit and intensity ??? In what part of his game is there grit and intensity? With his season long statistical percentages where is it beneficial to have him on the floor other than FT% .. serious question. He's not an elite defender like Seth, he's not a great drive and dish assist guy and his shooting in general over the season is atrocious for a starting senior transfer UNC wing. What am I missing that your seeing? .. and Seth, season stats, is a much better shooter from both the field and 3 than Ryan.
He's need to stop hesitating at times before he shoots & elliot the same .. appear to be aiming instead of just shooting normal rhythm
Cormac is shooting far worse then his last 2 years, no doubt. I do not think he is getting bad looks comparatively. He was at ND and has as well here brought a grit, plays hard, grinds, but really he is 25 yaers old playing against 20 year olds he should be seasoned and developed.
I do not see an option though if his sub par shooting continues. Withers and Washington at the 4 and Ingram at the 3 as Dsouth wants seems foolhardy to me, lose much more then you gain. No other options though. Woj is not an option at all. Seth ain't a shooter
Cormac has to be a solid 3 threat. He has been for 2 years. If he returns to that we are DANGEROUS against all comers. If not, we are vulnerable to all solid teams.
I do not see an option though if his sub par shooting continues. Withers and Washington at the 4 and Ingram at the 3 as Dsouth wants seems foolhardy to me, lose much more then you gain. No other options though. Woj is not an option at all. Seth ain't a shooter
Cormac has to be a solid 3 threat. He has been for 2 years. If he returns to that we are DANGEROUS against all comers. If not, we are vulnerable to all solid teams.
Of course Woj will rarely play extended meaningful minutes. However, it’s a plus if he’s at least an outside threat when in the game. Gotta keep the floor spaced.
Don’t hate the idea of going big. The unknown remains, are the J’s ready for those minutes? Based on what we’ve seen it’s impossible to know. I like JWash’s jump shot but question his athleticism. I like JWither’s athleticism and question, well everything else.
Don’t hate the idea of going big. The unknown remains, are the J’s ready for those minutes? Based on what we’ve seen it’s impossible to know. I like JWash’s jump shot but question his athleticism. I like JWither’s athleticism and question, well everything else.
"Cormac has to be a solid shooting threat", well guess what, we are now in the second trip around the ACC portion of our schedule and so far this season Ryan has NOT, may I repeat that, NOT been a consistent shooting threat. We all would LOVE for him to be what was expected, he has not been that, at what point do we look at truth and stop with the dreams?
The is a difference between how for example Paxon was used at Brown, he was their primary scorer and yet here he has had to realize that he is buried in our depth chart, that happens when you play with more talent. The same has happened with JWit, #2 option on his team and now not starting for us and yes the same is happening with Ryan, #1 or 2 option for his old team and now he is at best 4th option to score of our starters. These 3 are in some ways under more pressure now than they were because they don't get the total bombs away treatment, the if it feels like leather Caleb Love plan.
You see this all the time with freshmen that were all stars in high school, get to college and have to figure out in college how to mesh their game with the college talents. The same thing is happening in the case of these 3 and we have all watched that struggle. NONE of the 3 have navigated that change successfully this season. With Ryan, he is getting cleaner looks than he ever got last season, when you are a teams primary guy defenses really make your looks as hard as they can, see RJ Davis for proof of that. Bottom line is that we need consistency from Ryan as a starter, he isn't well and I think it has to be addressed. I hope the kid goes off for 20+ tonight but I know better than to expect that now. A guy not making wide open jump shots simply is not a shooting threat.
IF Ryan is going to get his shooting stroke back, I think he needs to be shaken up. I recall a game last season (think it was last season), Leaky was playing a bit less than we know Leaky plays typically, he was benched for the start of a game but in that game Leaky may have played his best game of not just his season but his UNC career. The bench can inspire a guy and has more than once in the past. Maybe he comes off the bench and play inspired ball, maybe he is a guy that really gets our bench scoring up, he has not been a guy to really help us consistently as a shooter in a starting wing role. The notion that he is a shooting threat only works when a guy is making shots, you are not a shooting threat if you are not making wide open looks (he has been getting wide open looks, looks that RJ would kill for), drop the mic on that point.
Fool hearted using JWash and JWit as our 4s and not taking Ingram out of the starting line up is fool hearted in what way? WE have seen them both, we know their weaknesses and we have seen their strengths. Some of Ingram's best moments have come from playing against opposing 3s, they are easier to back down and he has a length as well as strength advantage against them. As for JWash and JWit, if it is so fool hearted now to start either of them then we really have a problem come next season don't we because at least 1 of them will start unless we get a big time big man from the portal that plays at least at Bacot's level. Fool hearted is structuring your defense so that a guy like JWash has to guard a wing or a 2 guard 30ft from the basket, fool hearted is 1-10 in wide open jump shots taken by a so called knock down shooter, fool hearted is doing what you have been doing and expecting different results. I just looked at the season stats, JWash leads the team in shooting % at 68.5%, he is averaging 2.8 boards a game in an average of 8.7mins a game guys, he leads all non-starters at 4.4pts per game and those are value stats this deep in to the season. REyan on the other hand is shooting 36% from the field over all and 28.9% from 3, isn't that less than Leaky, that is the lowest field goal % on the team for any guy getting more than 5mins a game and Ryan is getting 29.4min a game. Still want to talk fool hearted?
1 play doesn't define a game. How about all of his others? I swear people always find a way to defend someone when they know exactly what's going on
But if a kid is not making wide open shots he is not a shooting threat! Teams invited Leaky to take all the treys he wanted, guess why, he was not making them, guess why Cadeau can have a wide open trey ANYTIME he wants to take it? No really, go ahead, guess why Cadeau can get so many wide open jumpers? LOL Cadeau is averaging for the season 47.5% from the field but just 16% from 3 on an average of 6.3 field goal attempts per game... Ready for this... Ryan is averaging 36.1% from the field and 28.9% from trey on 5.5 3-point attempts per game in 29.4mins per game...
Let me frame this for clarity, Caleb Love shot a better over all as well as from trey % that Ryan but was a major focus of defenses and seemed to not know what a bad shot was. Ryan on the other hand is getting wide open shots, shots that real shooters dream of getting, clang clang clang...
Are the J Boyzs ready, well has Ryan been ready? LOL What I know is that when the J boyzs have played extended minutes they have had their better games, BOTH have stepped up BIG in games when they have got the court time. I am not talking in terms of Ryan being regulated to getting Paxon like minutes, just suggesting he is not earning a starting role and 30mins a game playing like he has been. I mean face it, how excited would you have been when Ryan committed to us if you knew he was a little better than average defender but a poor jump shooter? Well that is what we got isn't it... Heck, I hope the guy goes off for 20+ tonight but I sure wouldn't place a bet on that, would you, would any of you? YOU tell me, who would you put your money on to score 10pts or more tonight if they both got 30mins, Ryan or JWash, I would quickly take JWash. I would because shooting % means a LOT this deep in the season!!!
For one I think the defense would be substantially weaker with Washington and Ingram playing the 3 and 4 along with Mando for big minutes. Probably would be a moot point total minute wise, as I think Washington would foul fairly quickly with extended minutes, not ideal to get teams in the bonus quicker though either.
I also believe Withers turnovers would be an issue, and the spacing and ball movement would suffer. We would become a very cumbersome even a downright lumbering group with Bacot/Washington/Ingram at 3 through 5.
I think the negatives would far surpass the positives with that lineup adjustment. Cormac shooting is a major issue. I do not think the slowed down plodding alternative is a better fit though.
As for next year Mando not being in the middle opens opportunities for minutes. I would guess Washington is 1st in line for that role. Withers 1st crack at the 4. Going to be a completely different roster makeup.
