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Baltimore

I don't see this as a "black/white issue. The Baltimore Police Dept. is almost entirely black, correct? I don't have a clue whether the police are in the wrong or not but I don't see it as a race issue.
Agreed. And this goes back to my post on page 2. The issue (not just Baltimore, but the recent string of killings by cops) should be about police tactics and police brutality, it should not be "cops vs. black people," but that's of course how the media is framing it.

And once it's a racial issue, effective discussion becomes impossible, as has been proven time and time again.
 
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Great. So the message has been sent - destroy your own neighborhoods and hurt your own people and then you'll get what you want. Awesome.

I hear what you are saying, but if they hadn't been historically subjected to police overstepping authority, then there would not have been enough pent up aggression to protest and riot.

Do you think these cops would ever have been charged if there had not been any protests and riots?
 
I hear what you are saying, but if they hadn't been historically subjected to police overstepping authority, then there would not have been enough pent up aggression to protest and riot.

Do you think these cops would ever have been charged if there had not been any protests and riots?

Protest or riots? You're using them as if they're the same thing. Had the community protested, yes, the officers would have been charged. And the nation would not be looking down on the people of Baltimore. And I have no idea if they would have been charged absent peaceful protests or violent rioting. I would like to think so. But that may be just the racist in me.

As far as your explanation of why these folks feel this way, I'll just say that everybody has a story to tell and every community has their own issues. And every race has been at the bad end of justice. Has it happened to these folks more? Who knows? I'd have to see some objective research that would suggest that before I'll completely buy into that notion. I'm not just going to believe everyone's angry facebook posts.
 
I hear what you are saying, but if they hadn't been historically subjected to police overstepping authority, then there would not have been enough pent up aggression to protest and riot.

Do you think these cops would ever have been charged if there had not been any protests and riots?
I would hope that they would have been charged if the evidence warranted it. Also I am sorry that the guy is dead but how could he be walking the streets with the rap sheet he has? I am not saying he had it coming, I am just questioning how he was not in jail.
 
Protest or riots? You're using them as if they're the same thing. Had the community protested, yes, the officers would have been charged. And the nation would not be looking down on the people of Baltimore. And I have no idea if they would have been charged absent peaceful protests or violent rioting. I would like to think so. But that may be just the racist in me.

As far as your explanation of why these folks feel this way, I'll just say that everybody has a story to tell and every community has their own issues. And every race has been at the bad end of justice. Has it happened to these folks more? Who knows? I'd have to see some objective research that would suggest that before I'll completely buy into that notion. I'm not just going to believe everyone's angry facebook posts.

True, I did use them as the same thing. Should have just said protest. And I don't think people are looking down on Baltimore. It has been widely reported that many of the rioters were from out of town. I think it is the nation looking down on rioters and feeling sorry for Baltimore.

Of course everyone has a story to tell. There is no doubt that black people are disproportionately arrested. I understand that they commit more crime too. But I am also comfortable in assuming that they therefore receive a disproportionate amount of overzealous (defined any number of ways) police action.

To me, it all comes back to doing the right thing, which does not include running from a cop for any reason. I get that cops don't need to be shooting you if you run or beating you if you get caught, but if you had never run in the first place, what followed also would not have happened.
 
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True, I did use them as the same thing. Should have just said protest. And I don't think people are looking down on Baltimore. It has been widely reported that many of the rioters were from out of town. I think it is the nation looking down on rioters and feeling sorry for Baltimore.

Of course everyone has a story to tell. There is no doubt that black people are disproportionately arrested. I understand that they commit more crime too. But I am also comfortable in assuming that they therefore receive a disproportionate amount of overzealous (defined any number of ways) police action.

To me, it all comes back to doing the right thing, which does not include running from a cop for any reason. I get that cops don't need to be shooting you if you run or beating you if you get caught, but if you had never run in the first place, what followed also would not have happened.

Good posts 71. If those had followed the protest and riots in Missouri, most of the ones arrested for looting and violence were from other cities and states. The same is holding true in Baltimore, outsider interference has come and caused destruction, just as much as some came with positive support for the protest.

71, it's not a crime to run!!! That's nation wide, I disagree with the part of the post where you say if he hadn't run it would not have happened. Your talking about a city with over 20 million dollars in police misconduct settlements over the past few years. So prior history of the police department says otherwise.
 
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@Baby Debo If you run from police, you are asking for trouble.

I mean, our 1st amendment rights also grant us the privilege of calling cops c-sucking aholes. What do you think would happen if you walked up to a cop and said just that?

I suppose I am being a little naive in saying that the only reason Gray was on the receiving end of police misconduct is because he ran, but surely you agree that his running drastically increased the odds?

Also, I heard today that the cops observed a drug deal going down, which is why Gray took off running. Not saying that is necessarily true, but I am also not going to dismiss it out of hand.
 
They may have lied about injuring Mr Gray. That's where this is going. Unravel the lies omitted, there the truth lies.

They may be guilty, right now we simply don't know. One thing we do know and nobody is saying.......................................he was a CAREER CRIMINAL with at least 17 arrest.
 
Mike, what happened to the Christian church not judging a person by his actions but looking at his redemptive value. It's true that we don't condone his sins (crimes) but neither are we supposed to hang them about his neck.

One of the last folks i would have who lifts his fellow humans faults up, but not condemn the sin of lying to cover the events of that night?? They're criminals also, the lied during an official statement and investigation. Who committed the greater sin Pastor.
 
They may be guilty, right now we simply don't know. One thing we do know and nobody is saying.......................................he was a CAREER CRIMINAL with at least 17 arrest.

One thing that most people don't know is that he grew up with a disabled mom who was a heroin addict in a house full of lead paint. His entire income came from settlement due to his mental disabilities directly cause by high exposure to lead. And Gray isn't the only one- Baltimore has a huge problem with lead poisoning in low income houses.

I would encourage anyone who thinks that Freddie Gray was just another hoodlum to read this article. It is quite sad though, I warn you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e898e6-eea8-11e4-8abc-d6aa3bad79dd_story.html

Sure, he was a criminal, but he certainly didn't deserve the life he received. No one does. And on the other side of the coin, if I'm a cop and I want to talk to you and you run from me, I will catch you and arrest you. And if you give me a hard time, I will make it very uncomfortable for you.

This is just a tragic situation.
 
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So there we have UVA it is. We will just beat up on him and BI next season

@Baby Debo If you run from police, you are asking for trouble.

I mean, our 1st amendment rights also grant us the privilege of calling cops c-sucking aholes. What do you think would happen if you walked up to a cop and said just that?

I suppose I am being a little naive in saying that the only reason Gray was on the receiving end of police misconduct is because he ran, but surely you agree that his running drastically increased the odds?

Also, I heard today that the cops observed a drug deal going down, which is why Gray took off running. Not saying that is necessarily true, but I am also not going to dismiss it out of hand.

Funny the arresting officers never mentioned said drug deal to their superiors in their reports from events of that night. They made eye contact with Mr Gray from several feet away from wgwhere they were, he ran . No crime committed, questionable yes, enough to try to pin a false arrest on him, no. It was not a switchblade he was carrying, but a regular knife under 3 inches, legal in momost states and like one that i carry everyday on the job. Smh.
 
Funny the arresting officers never mentioned said drug deal to their superiors in their reports from events of that night. They made eye contact with Mr Gray from several feet away from wgwhere they were, he ran . No crime committed, questionable yes, enough to try to pin a false arrest on him, no. It was not a switchblade he was carrying, but a regular knife under 3 inches, legal in momost states and like one that i carry everyday on the job. Smh.

Debo- you have to quit jumping on me like I am defending the cops or anyone else. I am merely writing what I have heard, on both sides, and not passing any judgement.

I know firsthand that there are unethical and criminal cops. But there is also no shortage of criminals to go around either. Who should a cop be loyal to- the neighborhood he protects or the civil rights of the alleged criminal? The answer of course, is both, but that is a very hard thing to do for anyone.
 
71,

My apologies for seeming that I'm jumping on you. I guess I'm pointing out discussion points like we do on our board in class online. I respect the fact that you put points out representing both sides. Again my apologies.

I enjoy the back n forth banter with you.
 
what happened to the Christian church not judging a person by his actions but looking at his redemptive value. It's true that we don't condone his sins (crimes) but neither are we supposed to hang them about his neck.

I agree...perhaps folks should look at police in the same reverence as they look at the criminals.
 
I saw interview that Gray was a career criminal but also a PI that the cops knew well and was a good informer for them. It was also said he usually "put on a show" when being brought in to give himself more "street cred" after he ratted out others. There is more to this story and it has absolutely nothing to do with race.....
 
Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke (D) declared the charges brought against six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray “George Zimmerman and the Duke Lacrosse case all over again” and said “these cops are political prisoners,” offered up as human sacrifices, thrown like red meat to an angry mob” on Friday’s “Your World with Neil Cavuto” on the Fox News Channel.

Clarke said of the charges, “it’s a miscarriage of justice. This neophyte prosecutor stood up there and made a political statement, Neil, and I say that because she’s chanting or voicing some of the chants from this angry mob. Her job is to tune that out. She said, I hear the voices. She’s not supposed to hear anything as she reviews this case that is not consistent with the rule of law and our system of justice. Look, I’m an experienced and a veteran homicide detective. I’ve had — I’ve participated in charging conferences. There is no way I have ever gotten a criminal charge within 24 hours after taking over all the reports and evidence to a prosecutor. A prosecutor who is thorough needs several days to sift through hundreds of pages of reports. They usually want to interview some of the witnesses themselves, in person, and they have to sift through all of the evidence, piece by piece, and they have to wait for some of the forensics evidence to conclude, to come back and that’s why I say on a minimum, three to four days. She just got this case yesterday. This is political activism. She’ll never prove this beyond a reasonable doubt, and I’m not going to silently stand by and watch my brother officers, offered up as human sacrifices, thrown like red meat to an angry mob, just to appease this angry mob.” And that “she rushed this thing through.”

After his interview was cut off to carry a Fraternal Order of Police press conference live, he continued, “she knows she’s not going to be able to prove these charges beyond a reasonable doubt. This is George Zimmerman and the Duke Lacrosse case all over again. A politically active district attorney or state’s attorney, you can tell the emotion in her voice, she almost did this with glee. And that’s why I believe, like they [the FOP] do…she needs to remove herself from the case. I hope the state’s attorney general gets involved in this, and sees the error of her ways. The smart thing for her to do is recuse herself and name a special prosecutor.”

He added that “there may be and probably are, some civil torts here, but what little I know, and I don’t know all the facts, but I’m listening to the emotion in their voice, and listening to those political statements that she made at the end of that news conference, that’s political activism, it’s wrong, it’s probably in violation of her code of ethics as a lawyer. And again, I’m going to take my time with this, but I’m not going to sit idly by, and I want to call out to every law enforcement officer in the country to pay attention to this. Because, I see a pattern, at least demands from an angry mob, that we be offered up as human sacrifices. We don’t do that in our system of justice in the United States just to please an angry mob. And I sense from what I heard her say, Neil, that that’s what is going on here.”

Clarke concluded, “there are some things I find in this case — what little I know — that are problematic from a procedural standpoint, but Neil, it doesn’t make it criminal. These cops are political prisoners. I’m calling them political prisoners because this state’s attorney, stood up there and made a political statement at the end, talking about she hears the voices, and no justice and no peace.”
 
Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke (D) declared the charges brought against six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray “George Zimmerman and the Duke Lacrosse case all over again” and said “these cops are political prisoners,” offered up as human sacrifices, thrown like red meat to an angry mob” on Friday’s “Your World with Neil Cavuto” on the Fox News Channel.

Clarke said of the charges, “it’s a miscarriage of justice. This neophyte prosecutor stood up there and made a political statement, Neil, and I say that because she’s chanting or voicing some of the chants from this angry mob. Her job is to tune that out. She said, I hear the voices. She’s not supposed to hear anything as she reviews this case that is not consistent with the rule of law and our system of justice. Look, I’m an experienced and a veteran homicide detective. I’ve had — I’ve participated in charging conferences. There is no way I have ever gotten a criminal charge within 24 hours after taking over all the reports and evidence to a prosecutor. A prosecutor who is thorough needs several days to sift through hundreds of pages of reports. They usually want to interview some of the witnesses themselves, in person, and they have to sift through all of the evidence, piece by piece, and they have to wait for some of the forensics evidence to conclude, to come back and that’s why I say on a minimum, three to four days. She just got this case yesterday. This is political activism. She’ll never prove this beyond a reasonable doubt, and I’m not going to silently stand by and watch my brother officers, offered up as human sacrifices, thrown like red meat to an angry mob, just to appease this angry mob.” And that “she rushed this thing through.”

After his interview was cut off to carry a Fraternal Order of Police press conference live, he continued, “she knows she’s not going to be able to prove these charges beyond a reasonable doubt. This is George Zimmerman and the Duke Lacrosse case all over again. A politically active district attorney or state’s attorney, you can tell the emotion in her voice, she almost did this with glee. And that’s why I believe, like they [the FOP] do…she needs to remove herself from the case. I hope the state’s attorney general gets involved in this, and sees the error of her ways. The smart thing for her to do is recuse herself and name a special prosecutor.”

He added that “there may be and probably are, some civil torts here, but what little I know, and I don’t know all the facts, but I’m listening to the emotion in their voice, and listening to those political statements that she made at the end of that news conference, that’s political activism, it’s wrong, it’s probably in violation of her code of ethics as a lawyer. And again, I’m going to take my time with this, but I’m not going to sit idly by, and I want to call out to every law enforcement officer in the country to pay attention to this. Because, I see a pattern, at least demands from an angry mob, that we be offered up as human sacrifices. We don’t do that in our system of justice in the United States just to please an angry mob. And I sense from what I heard her say, Neil, that that’s what is going on here.”

Clarke concluded, “there are some things I find in this case — what little I know — that are problematic from a procedural standpoint, but Neil, it doesn’t make it criminal. These cops are political prisoners. I’m calling them political prisoners because this state’s attorney, stood up there and made a political statement at the end, talking about she hears the voices, and no justice and no peace.”
 
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