Coronavirus

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

This is really old news

"Really old news"? The data came out last week - I didn't see it poasted here.

Don't confuse "contributing" or "co-morbidity" for "pre-existing". There are clearly tons of people with pre-existing issues dying from covid, but you can be obese and live to 100. Same for having high blood pressure. Covid ended their lives prematurely.

No one is confusing the issue. No one is saying that morbidly obese 70 year old with high blood pressure would have died this week with or without Covid. So you can spare us that red herring.

Nothing new here.

Had we seen elsewhere, from a credible source, that only 6% of the deaths were from people that didn't have co-morbidities? I know there was a poaster on here trying to tell everyone that 105% of the country had co-morbidities, but in reality there are a lot of people that should rest easier with this information.

 

[ProfessorOwl]

The pandemic is over. It's been obvious for a while that we seriously overreacted. I was as guilty of this as anyone, but at least I am able to change my views. Herd immunity is easier than expected to reach. The virus was considerably less deadly than initially thought, and showed a massive level of age discrimination. It's also impossible to get again, at least in the short term.

Looking back, it would have been better to control the fear, and keep society mostly normal while protecting the most vulnerable. Sadly the virus response became intensely political, and that precluded any sort of rational response or admission of fault.

 

[strummingram]

The pandemic is over.

Really?

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Really?

This raises the interesting question of the definition of the pandemic being over. People will continue to get Coronavirus for years, so it can't be a total eradication of the virus. There needs to be some case rate, or death rate, that once we fall below that, the pandemic can be objectively defined as over.

 

[bluetoe]

This raises the interesting question of the definition of the pandemic being over. People will continue to get Coronavirus for years, so it can't be a total eradication of the virus. There needs to be some case rate, or death rate, that once we fall below that, the pandemic can be objectively defined as over.

shouldn't be hard. What's the definition of pandemic? When it isn't that, it's over.

 

[strummingram]

This raises the interesting question of the definition of the pandemic being over. People will continue to get Coronavirus for years, so it can't be a total eradication of the virus. There needs to be some case rate, or death rate, that once we fall below that, the pandemic can be objectively defined as over.

I dunno about the details regarding "how many equals pandemic?" There are new cases being reported every day and the USA is still averaging about 1000 deaths a day and averaging 40k new cases per day. This country responded the worst, by far, than any other country in the world, in just about every aspect.

 

[ProfessorOwl]

I dunno about the details regarding "how many equals pandemic?" There are new cases being reported every day and the USA is still averaging about 1000 deaths a day and averaging 40k new cases per day. This country responded the worst, by far, than any other country in the world, in just about every aspect.

Do you really think the decisions of a group of hand-wringing bureaucrats had an impact? I can't imagine having such hubris.

Pandemics like covid are like the ticking of a metronome. It's math and nothing more. Do you think it's some strange coincidence that essentially all of the big countries have similar deaths/million? Are there Trump-like figures in all of them, throwing their otherwise perfect viral responses into disarray?

Deaths per 10 million
United States: 5,593
Spain: 6,209
UK: 6,254
Italy: 5,768
Sweden: 5,716
France: 4,569
Brazil: 5,768
Chile: 6,003
Mexico: 5,084
Belgium: 8,662

In 5 years you will be able to look at this data, and the deaths will be virtually identical per capita. Any differences will be explainable by demographics, reporting conventions, or slight differences in healthcare quality (though, lets face it, this isn't exactly the most difficult disease to treat).

The fact that you've swallowed political narratives about virus response is an indictment of your own intelligence, or lack thereof.

 

[strummingram]

Do you really think the decisions of a group of hand-wringing bureaucrats had an impact?

I have absolutely no doubt they had an impact.

I can't imagine having such hubris.

Really? Other than every time you contribute to this thread, you mean?

Are there Trump-like figures in all of them, throwing their otherwise perfect viral responses into disarray?

Did I make mention of Trump in my post? You basically incriminated him with your presumption. I agree, he hasn't helped at all. He's been a fvck-up since birth, I didn't expect him to rise to the occasion when this hit, either.

The USA is taking it right in the nuts with this thing. I am sure it was inevitable.

 

[bluetoe]

I have absolutely no doubt they had an impact.


Really? Other than every time you contribute to this thread, you mean?


Did I make mention of Trump in my post? You basically incriminated him with your presumption. I agree, he hasn't helped at all. He's been a fvck-up since birth, I didn't expect him to rise to the occasion when this hit, either.

The USA is taking it right in the nuts with this thing. I am sure it was inevitable.

I keep looking in this response for where the poster addressed the point of the post that he responded to, and I don't see it. I know it must be there though...shirley this wouldn't be a strawman post or a rip the messenger post and an 'I have no answer but I have to answer' kind of thing. Somewhere in the post there just has to be an explanation of how the U.S. has taken it in the nuts worse than the other countries listed, in spite of indications to the contrary. WAIT, I know. Those figures must be deaths per million of total population. That statistic has been deemed by certain board experts to be irrelevant and meaningless and even downright laughable. I must try to remember that.

 

[blazers]

Do you really think the decisions of a group of hand-wringing bureaucrats had an impact? I can't imagine having such hubris.

Pandemics like covid are like the ticking of a metronome. It's math and nothing more. Do you think it's some strange coincidence that essentially all of the big countries have similar deaths/million? Are there Trump-like figures in all of them, throwing their otherwise perfect viral responses into disarray?

Deaths per million
United States: 5,593
Spain: 6,209
UK: 6,254
Italy: 5,768
Sweden: 5,716
France: 4,569
Brazil: 5,768
Chile: 6,003
Mexico: 5,084
Belgium: 8,662

In 5 years you will be able to look at this data, and the deaths will be virtually identical per capita. Any differences will be explainable by demographics, reporting conventions, or slight differences in healthcare quality (though, lets face it, this isn't exactly the most difficult disease to treat).

The fact that you've swallowed political narratives about virus response is an indictment of your own intelligence, or lack thereof.

1. USA deaths per million is 560 not 5600. If your list's numbers were correct we'd have almost 2 million dead from covid. Please get a real source before trying to use data to make some point.

2. We're in the top-10 in the entire world in Deaths Per Million:

COVID-19 Data Explorer

Explore global data on COVID-19.

ourworldindata.org

^ sort by the second column

3. Near the top-25 in the above list you'll find Iran and Canada who have LESS THAN HALF the deaths per million that the US has. We're 560, they're ~240. Germany is 111, meaning Germany has 1/5th the deaths per million that we have. And Germany's economy is picking up nicely, their restaurant volumn this August was actually greater than August 2019.

4. We're supposed to be a global leader. With all technology, universities, stability (relative to other countries), high standards of living, etc, we should be one of the top ten best-prepared countries to deal with a pandemic, not top-ten worst.

 

[gteeitup]

It's also impossible to get again, at least in the short term.

definition of short term?

 

[ProfessorOwl]

1. USA deaths per million is 560 not 5600. If your list's numbers were correct we'd have almost 2 million dead from covid. Please get a real source before trying to use data to make some point.

2. We're in the top-10 in the entire world in Deaths Per Million:

COVID-19 Data Explorer

Explore global data on COVID-19.

ourworldindata.org

^ sort by the second column

3. Near the top-25 in the above list you'll find Iran and Canada who have LESS THAN HALF the deaths per million that the US has. We're 560, they're ~240. Germany is 111, meaning Germany has 1/5th the deaths per million that we have. And Germany's economy is picking up nicely, their restaurant volumn this August was actually greater than August 2019.

4. We're supposed to be a global leader. With all technology, universities, stability (relative to other countries), high standards of living, etc, we should be one of the top ten best-prepared countries to deal with a pandemic, not top-ten worst.

1. Deaths per 10M. As I'm sure you realized.

3. Germany indeed has low deaths per capita. They are extremely vulnerable to a second outbreak. For their sake, I hope luck continues to stay on their side. But I think I've done a good job of showing that they are the exception, not the norm.

The iranian numbers are fake. I think that's been well covered by the news.

As for Canada, they are small and have so far been isolated. You'll notice I didn't include countries like Australia or NZ either. They just aren't comparable to countries like the US, UK, etc.

4. That's sort of the point of my post. Technology doesn't save you. Really, it makes it worse. The more integrated your country and economy is, both with yourself and the world, the worse you can expect your outcomes to be. We totally lack the ability to control a disease that spreads through the air, and any implication otherwise is a mirage.

People buy into a narrative about this lockdown working, or conscientious mask wearers saving the world, but it's all dross. We're all helpless in the face of nature.

 

[ProfessorOwl]

definition of short term?

Literally no one knows. So far immunity is protecting people from a second bout, but no one knows how long that might last.

Hence vaccine research.

That's basically the one area where our far superior technological base should have an impact. Hopefully soon.

 

[prlyles]

1. Deaths per 10M. As I'm sure you realized.

3. Germany indeed has low deaths per capita. They are extremely vulnerable to a second outbreak. For their sake, I hope luck continues to stay on their side.

All you have to do here is not be an idiot and you can't even do that. Why is the US one of the top "unluckiest" countries in the world?

 

[ProfessorOwl]

I suppose the thesis if all my posts would be this: near term covid outcomes are a result of certain immutable characteristics of the country in question. Things like size, demographics, economic and social integration.

This explains why countries with similar characteristics have similar outcomes, despite having different responses and politics.

Your takeaway should be that it's irrational to play politics or alienate your fellow countrymen because they have different policy ideas on what to do next. It mostly doesn't matter.

 

[gteeitup]

Literally no one knows. So far immunity is protecting people from a second bout, but no one knows how long that might last.

Hence vaccine research.

That's basically the one area where our far superior technological base should have an impact. Hopefully soon.

to your point, i've watch two separate interviews with females that got it twice within three months.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Trump ... He's been a fvck-up since birth

True story.

 

[gteeitup]

uscarolina has a 27.7% positive test rate...holy

 

[ProfessorOwl]

I'd expect colleges to hit herd immunity FAST. Its spreads extremely well in a dorm environment and 18-22 year olds aren't known for following the rules. Luckily, it's not exactly risky for them.

 

[gteeitup]

I'd expect colleges to hit herd immunity FAST. Its spreads extremely well in a dorm environment and 18-22 year olds aren't known for following the rules. Luckily, it's not exactly risky for them.

but it could be for others around them...kids being selfish, not a shock.

 

[blazers]

1. Deaths per 10M. As I'm sure you realized.

3. Germany indeed has low deaths per capita. They are extremely vulnerable to a second outbreak. For their sake, I hope luck continues to stay on their side. But I think I've done a good job of showing that they are the exception, not the norm.

The iranian numbers are fake. I think that's been well covered by the news.

As for Canada, they are small and have so far been isolated. You'll notice I didn't include countries like Australia or NZ either. They just aren't comparable to countries like the US, UK, etc.

4. That's sort of the point of my post. Technology doesn't save you. Really, it makes it worse. The more integrated your country and economy is, both with yourself and the world, the worse you can expect your outcomes to be. We totally lack the ability to control a disease that spreads through the air, and any implication otherwise is a mirage.

People buy into a narrative about this lockdown working, or conscientious mask wearers saving the world, but it's all dross. We're all helpless in the face of nature.

Technology makes it worse? Germany, Hong Kong, Seoul, etc beg to differ.

Canada is small? 39th worldwide in total population, and several cities like Toronto are dense (Toronto is as dense as Chicago, Miami, etc).

Don't trust Iran's death numbers, fine, how about the two adjacent to Canada- South Africa and Argentina, also HALF of US's numbers.

It sounds like you are trying to describe the US as this unique unicorn but we're in the top-10 worst and countries that around #25 worst are HALF in deaths per capita. So what about the other 150+ countries in the world below #25?

-Distancing and masks make a difference, not only in total spread but in viral load from person to person (resulting in less severity of infection)
-Surveillance-oriented testing makes a difference
-contact tracing makes a difference.
-acting early is probably the biggest difference maker rather than downplaying it.

We had zero national plan or coordination on ANY of the above.

Helpless in the face of national leaders calling it a hoax.

 

[gteeitup]

check this awesome night out

 

[Terror Beard]

check this awesome night out

View embedded media

That place is packed. Looks like fun. I’d go there too if I was in college.

 

[strummingram]

check this awesome night out

View embedded media

Ahhh... that's the dumbass America that we have come to know and love! If there's a harder, more costly way to do it, irresponsible Americans are ready to answer that call!

 

[Terror Beard]

Ahhh... that's the dumbass America that we have come to know and love! If there's a harder, more costly way to do it, irresponsible Americans are ready to answer that call!

That's what do - everything in excess. "Murica!

 

[Terror Beard]

lol

Shelby County woman who passed away 6 months ago gets letter saying she is COVID-19 positive

She died in February but the test supposedly took place in June.

www.wfmynews2.com

 

[gteeitup]

Ahhh... that's the dumbass America that we have come to know and love! If there's a harder, more costly way to do it, irresponsible Americans are ready to answer that call!

and let’s not leave the bar owner off the hook...dafuq’s he doing?

also, scarolina is placing positive tested in vacated dorms and allowing them to contact people they were in contact with; not demanding, not monitoring, not keeping a record...the chances of them being responsible enough to do that is also represented in that video, lol.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

check this awesome night out

View embedded media

Thanks Trump

 

[Terror Beard]

Thanks Trump

I bet the bar owner is a Trump fan. If he wasn’t, he is now.

 

[strummingram]

Thanks Trump

He's probably killing-off votes.

The US coronavirus death toll is projected to reach 410,000 in the next 4 months if mask use wanes

This model is more aggressive in its predictions than others. It comes a day after a new CDC ensemble forecast predicted 211,000 deaths by Sept. 26.

nonpareilonline.com

 

[gteeitup]

fomo is the real issue at this point...think about it.

 

[prlyles]

Looks like fun. I’d go there too if I was in college.

That, I have no doubt.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I bet the bar owner is a Trump fan. If he wasn’t, he is now.

We should cancel him just to be sure.

 

[bluetoe]

and let’s not leave the bar owner off the hook...dafuq’s he doing?

also, scarolina is placing positive tested in vacated dorms and allowing them to contact people they were in contact with; not demanding, not monitoring, not keeping a record...the chances of them being responsible enough to do that is also represented in that video, lol.

staying in business?

 

[bluetoe]

This is really old news and theoretically it could be 100% instead of 94%.

First, the most common contributing factor is pneumonia, but the pneumonia was caused by the covid19 infection. This is like being shot in the heart and "organ failure due to blood loss" being a contributing factor.

Don't confuse "contributing" or "co-morbidity" for "pre-existing". There are clearly tons of people with pre-existing issues dying from covid, but you can be obese and live to 100. Same for having high blood pressure. Covid ended their lives prematurely.

Second, of course we've known all along that sicker people (hypertension from obesity, etc) are more at risk for being hospitalized, then potentially dying. Nothing new here.

a contributing factor is an independent contributor to the result, and not a result of the main issue which then contributes to the outcome. For example....

---'alcohol was a contributing factor in the fatal accident' Alcohol contributed to the accident (which in turn resulted in death). Or, alcohol contributed to the fatal accident. The accident didn't produce alcohol consumption, which then contributed to the death.

However, if there was an accident that caused a vehicle to catch on fire, and the driver succumbed to the fire, fire would not be considered a contributing factor even though it would be the actual cause of death; the fatality would be considered a vehicle accident since the accident caused the fire.

If covid causes organ failure which results in death, organ failure is not a contributing factor because it was not a factor that existed independently of covid, but rather a direct result of covid, which in turn resulted in death.

I don't know how these stats are actually considered and compiled, and I really don't give a shit, but somebody is misusing the concept of a 'contributing factor'. If I see 'pneumonia was a contributing factor in a covid death', my belief is that pneumonia existed or was contracted independently of covid and contributed to the death in that respect.

 

[gteeitup]

staying in business?

sure, but he’s not following city or county recommended regs which puts others at risk...then the people there get back to campus, drive the numbers up, which pushes back any sense of normalcy returning for the responsible ones.

but hey, it’s all about the moment.

 

[Terror Beard]

but hey, it’s all about the moment.

 

[uncboy10]

sure, but he’s not following city or county recommended regs which puts others at risk...then the people there get back to campus, drive the numbers up, which pushes back any sense of normalcy returning for the responsible ones.

but hey, it’s all about the moment.

If they had set up adequate funding (with some public accountability) to go to businesses that were forced to close, then people wouldn't have broken the rules out of desperation. They could have made a stipulation that any businesses caught violating the public health mandates would lose their loan/rent forgiveness, etc., and pretty much everybody would have followed the rules.

 

[gteeitup]

If they had set up adequate funding (with some public accountability) to go to businesses that were forced to close, then people wouldn't have broken the rules out of desperation. They could have made a stipulation that any businesses caught violating the public health mandates would lose their loan/rent forgiveness, etc., and pretty much everybody would have followed the rules.

hey, that makes too much sense, stop already...get with the times.

 

[gteeitup]

cool super spreader event in florida