Ok, I don't think you aren't trying then. Just suggesting you don't understand nor want to, which is fine. That is kind of what faith is. I believe completely in bad things and good things happening because of natural selection and simply the way things work. I never claimed every bad thing that happens is by choice.
Someone who simply opposes that isn't an extremist. It isn't where I fall as a Christian but calling them extremists is pretty absurd. If that is how far apart we are there isn't any point in this tbh.
Again, I feel like a lot of your issues with Christianity are based exclusively on this one issue. I get your POV here as I've had many of these conversations with Christians. It doesn't make them terrible people though. If you feel that way, just don't respond I guess because that sort of puts you right on the same level as those you seem to hate. We just aren't going to productively converse when that is the case. I mean, it isn't going anywhere anyway so has probably run its course.
I don't think you're engaging with any of the points I've actually made.
1. Natural selection in a world that was intelligently designed, is part of the design. Natural phenomenon would all come down to the engineering of the god that created the universe where said natural phenomenon occurs.
2. I didn't say that makes them extremists. I was literally making the point that religious doctrines are dangerous on their own, not just for extremists looking for justification for their obsessions. I'm making the case that the vast majority of people would not care about homosexuality, but they only do because the Bible tells them its a sin. Without that doctrine their would be no other justification for denying them basic human rights. I was literally making the case that they aren't extremists, they just believe in a stupid idea, because an old book told them that idea came from god himself.
3. You're clearly strawmanning me here. I have a long lists of issues with christianity and religion in general, and I've stated many of them. I never said that all christians are terrible people. So I can't even begin to imagine where you're taking that from. Criticizing ideas is totally different than hating people. The vast majority of people who are oppressed by religious doctrine, are religious themselves. The biggest victims of Islamism, are Muslim women. Like I said, you're simply not engaging with any of my actual points, because its easier to just make false equivalencies and straw man me. Nothing I've posted here suggests that I hate anyone. It should suggest that I hate particular ideas, and the notion of justifying those ideas with the religious force of claiming they are backed by god.
My argument is a simple one. Ideas inform actions. And when you convince someone that they should believe in terrible ideas, because god said so, then you will inevitably end up with worse behavior than you would get from secular logic. Their is no valid logical justification for oppressing gay folks, women, or apostates. Only religious dogma can do that. And it works through codified doctrines that are supposedly the word of god.
If you don't want to discuss/debate religion with me then that's perfectly fine. We don't have to continue. But its a little irritating to hear someone repeatedly straw man your arguments and claim that "you just don't want to understand" while they simultaneously misrepresent your arguments.
"
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
This is the point that concerns me. Ordinary people who are not psychopaths, being convinced to do evil things because they believe that god wants them to do it. How many daughters were stoned to death throughout human history for not being virgins on their wedding night? How many muslim women have had acid thrown in their faces for showing too much hair in public? How many gay men have been thrown from the rooftops of buildings for the nature of their sexual preference? Its easy for us to dismiss this from afar... but things like this still happen all around the world, for exclusively religious reasons. Its not the only reason why people commit atrocities, but for many people, it is the only reason.
I like Phillip's take on things, personally.
