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No Hell below us... above us, only Sky! There is no Hell- Bible says so!

strummingram

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Here is the article.


Here’s what the Bible says, and precisely why I have argued that if one were to read the Bible without preexisting ideas of traditional hell, one would not walk away believing in it. Organized religion helped create "Hell" as people believe it to exist. Here’s the list:

Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the ungodly perish at all– but live forever in hell.

Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the wicked will be “consumed.” Instead, they believe the wicked and tortured and never consumed.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.”

This continues the consistency of scripture which tells us the wicked die– not that they are eternally living in a conscious hell.

Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.”

Of course, if one believes in eternal hell, one doesn’t believe that evil brings death at all, but brings life– in hell.

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe those who are lost are “destroyed” but again, that they live forever.

Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.”

To believe in eternal conscious hell means one believes they will not be snuffed out at all.

Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.”

This continues the theme of totally destroyed– there’s not a trace of the wicked. This is the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.”

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.

This speaks to ceasing to exist– not eternal life in hell. In the traditional hell it will not be “as if they had never been” because they’ll live eternally and still “be.”

Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.”

Here God is quoted directly– the evildoers are destroyed like straw thrown into the fire, and nothing is left. This shows total annihilation (they no longer exist). To believe in eternal hell, one would have to argue that God was mistaken and that they aren’t destroyed in the fire at all– but live forever in the fire without being consumed, which is the exact opposite of what God claimed.

Again, as I said on That God Show, hell is NOT in the Old Testament. Instead, they believed that the wicked are destroyed– that they die and do not get resurrected to eternal life. This is the testimony of the whole of scripture. To believe in eternal conscious hell is to really be at odds with the terminology we see scripture use. These same claims of annihilation and destruction continue in the New Testament:

Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish”

Again, to believe in hell, one must believe Jesus was wrong in John 3:16 and that people don’t “perish” at all, but live forever in hell.

Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction

Jesus in his warnings continues with the repetitive testimony of scripture: the consequence of rejecting reconciliation with God is destruction– not everlasting life in torment.

Jesus on a variety of occasions uses the metaphor of fire that consumes not tortures: Matt. 7:19; 13:40; John 15:6

Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…

There’s that pesky word “destroyed” again. Those who believe in eternal hell don’t believe one is destroyed in hell, but lives there forever.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …”

Getting repetitive yet? Seems like the Bible is getting pretty clear that the consequence of rejecting God is destruction, not eternal life in hell.

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

There’s that word again that doesn’t mean tortured in hell, but just means what it says– destroyed.

2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish

Again, if Paul meant hell, he should have said it– seems like everyone talks about perishing, being destroyed– but doesn’t talk about hell.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..

Growing up we’re taught that the “wages of sin is hell” but nope– it’s perishing, dying, being destroyed.. the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

Another version of the same term… destroyed.

James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

Seems like every biblical author wants us to understand to be “destroyed” is the natural consequence…

2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell. Rev 20:14 is clear that they die– they don’t live forever in hell at all.



So there you go folks– the testimony of the whole of scripture does not testify to hell as a place where you are alive and tortured for all eternity. Instead, from the beginning to the end of scripture we are warned that refusing to be reconciled to God– the author and sustainer of life– results in a natural outcome: the finality of death which is the ultimate destruction.

I would encourage you to just read the Bible– and read it without the lens of hell that you grew up with. If you read it without those lenses to distort what you see, you’ll find that eternal hell isn’t what the Bible warns us about– it warns us about a second death.
 
Here is the article.


Here’s what the Bible says, and precisely why I have argued that if one were to read the Bible without preexisting ideas of traditional hell, one would not walk away believing in it. Organized religion helped create "Hell" as people believe it to exist. Here’s the list:

Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the ungodly perish at all– but live forever in hell.

Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the wicked will be “consumed.” Instead, they believe the wicked and tortured and never consumed.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.”

This continues the consistency of scripture which tells us the wicked die– not that they are eternally living in a conscious hell.

Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.”

Of course, if one believes in eternal hell, one doesn’t believe that evil brings death at all, but brings life– in hell.

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe those who are lost are “destroyed” but again, that they live forever.

Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.”

To believe in eternal conscious hell means one believes they will not be snuffed out at all.

Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.”

This continues the theme of totally destroyed– there’s not a trace of the wicked. This is the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.”

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.

This speaks to ceasing to exist– not eternal life in hell. In the traditional hell it will not be “as if they had never been” because they’ll live eternally and still “be.”

Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.”

Here God is quoted directly– the evildoers are destroyed like straw thrown into the fire, and nothing is left. This shows total annihilation (they no longer exist). To believe in eternal hell, one would have to argue that God was mistaken and that they aren’t destroyed in the fire at all– but live forever in the fire without being consumed, which is the exact opposite of what God claimed.

Again, as I said on That God Show, hell is NOT in the Old Testament. Instead, they believed that the wicked are destroyed– that they die and do not get resurrected to eternal life. This is the testimony of the whole of scripture. To believe in eternal conscious hell is to really be at odds with the terminology we see scripture use. These same claims of annihilation and destruction continue in the New Testament:

Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish”

Again, to believe in hell, one must believe Jesus was wrong in John 3:16 and that people don’t “perish” at all, but live forever in hell.

Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction

Jesus in his warnings continues with the repetitive testimony of scripture: the consequence of rejecting reconciliation with God is destruction– not everlasting life in torment.

Jesus on a variety of occasions uses the metaphor of fire that consumes not tortures: Matt. 7:19; 13:40; John 15:6

Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…

There’s that pesky word “destroyed” again. Those who believe in eternal hell don’t believe one is destroyed in hell, but lives there forever.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …”

Getting repetitive yet? Seems like the Bible is getting pretty clear that the consequence of rejecting God is destruction, not eternal life in hell.

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

There’s that word again that doesn’t mean tortured in hell, but just means what it says– destroyed.

2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish

Again, if Paul meant hell, he should have said it– seems like everyone talks about perishing, being destroyed– but doesn’t talk about hell.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..

Growing up we’re taught that the “wages of sin is hell” but nope– it’s perishing, dying, being destroyed.. the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

Another version of the same term… destroyed.

James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

Seems like every biblical author wants us to understand to be “destroyed” is the natural consequence…

2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell. Rev 20:14 is clear that they die– they don’t live forever in hell at all.



So there you go folks– the testimony of the whole of scripture does not testify to hell as a place where you are alive and tortured for all eternity. Instead, from the beginning to the end of scripture we are warned that refusing to be reconciled to God– the author and sustainer of life– results in a natural outcome: the finality of death which is the ultimate destruction.

I would encourage you to just read the Bible– and read it without the lens of hell that you grew up with. If you read it without those lenses to distort what you see, you’ll find that eternal hell isn’t what the Bible warns us about– it warns us about a second death.
OOOOOOKKKKKK
 
So I should stop saying "what in hells fire are you doing, idiot???" lol

That actually makes more sense. I know I was brought up in the Baptist church and they had me completely terrified of all things related to God because I knew my ass would never behave. Then as an adult I converted to the Catholic Church and while hell is definitely believed in the church, it has never been shoved down my throat, even though they are quick to promote confession to spare yourself from eternal damnation and it has never made any sense to me why a God who loves us so much can just toss us in eternal fire to torture us forever because of not understanding or seeing the scriptures the same, etc.
 
Daredevil dresses up in horns and beats the crap out of people, and his priest condones it, so there must be some gray area.

;)
There is LOTS of "gray area."

Jews definitely don't go to Hell. Why the early Christian religion felt the need to invent one is pretty interesting. They even have graphic pictures to go along with it. I can't even keep track of "Satan" in the Bible. When you throw in the stories the church has fabricated, it gets tough. Supposedly, St. Michael cast Satan out of Heaven. Now, that's a bad ass, right there. I guess Satan was trying to get in through the Emergency Exit.
 
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satan supposedly was a beatiful angel of music cast down to earth along with a third of the other angels. He doesnt even reside in hell according to bible. That image comes from greek mythology of hades which the evangelical church evidently got mixed up into their teachings.
 
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satan supposedly was a beatiful angel of music cast down to earth along with a third of the other angels. He doesnt even reside in hell according to bible. That image comes from greek mythology of hades which the evangelical church evidently got mixed up into their teachings.
Heaven is just as inaccurately portrayed by the evangelical church when compared to biblical teaching about it.
All of which is interesting... except when people base their entire world-view, and personal existence, on the certainty of this eternal, post-mortem torture chamber. Then it goes from interesting to dangerous.
 
d62e5fa849f06b3ba1d0e86caa72e4c2.jpg
 
How do you know that we aren't living in hell now? Look at all the hatred, evil, suffering both mental and physical, etc. that is here on earth. Xtians preach that if you think this is bad just wait. We can escape this earthly hell in only one way.
 
Here is the article.


Here’s what the Bible says, and precisely why I have argued that if one were to read the Bible without preexisting ideas of traditional hell, one would not walk away believing in it. Organized religion helped create "Hell" as people believe it to exist. Here’s the list:

Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the ungodly perish at all– but live forever in hell.

Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the wicked will be “consumed.” Instead, they believe the wicked and tortured and never consumed.

Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.”

This continues the consistency of scripture which tells us the wicked die– not that they are eternally living in a conscious hell.

Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.”

Of course, if one believes in eternal hell, one doesn’t believe that evil brings death at all, but brings life– in hell.

Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.”

If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe those who are lost are “destroyed” but again, that they live forever.

Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.”

To believe in eternal conscious hell means one believes they will not be snuffed out at all.

Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.”

This continues the theme of totally destroyed– there’s not a trace of the wicked. This is the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.”

Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.

This speaks to ceasing to exist– not eternal life in hell. In the traditional hell it will not be “as if they had never been” because they’ll live eternally and still “be.”

Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.”

Here God is quoted directly– the evildoers are destroyed like straw thrown into the fire, and nothing is left. This shows total annihilation (they no longer exist). To believe in eternal hell, one would have to argue that God was mistaken and that they aren’t destroyed in the fire at all– but live forever in the fire without being consumed, which is the exact opposite of what God claimed.

Again, as I said on That God Show, hell is NOT in the Old Testament. Instead, they believed that the wicked are destroyed– that they die and do not get resurrected to eternal life. This is the testimony of the whole of scripture. To believe in eternal conscious hell is to really be at odds with the terminology we see scripture use. These same claims of annihilation and destruction continue in the New Testament:

Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish”

Again, to believe in hell, one must believe Jesus was wrong in John 3:16 and that people don’t “perish” at all, but live forever in hell.

Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction

Jesus in his warnings continues with the repetitive testimony of scripture: the consequence of rejecting reconciliation with God is destruction– not everlasting life in torment.

Jesus on a variety of occasions uses the metaphor of fire that consumes not tortures: Matt. 7:19; 13:40; John 15:6

Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…

There’s that pesky word “destroyed” again. Those who believe in eternal hell don’t believe one is destroyed in hell, but lives there forever.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …”

Getting repetitive yet? Seems like the Bible is getting pretty clear that the consequence of rejecting God is destruction, not eternal life in hell.

1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

There’s that word again that doesn’t mean tortured in hell, but just means what it says– destroyed.

2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish

Again, if Paul meant hell, he should have said it– seems like everyone talks about perishing, being destroyed– but doesn’t talk about hell.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..

Growing up we’re taught that the “wages of sin is hell” but nope– it’s perishing, dying, being destroyed.. the opposite of eternal life in hell.

Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

Another version of the same term… destroyed.

James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

Seems like every biblical author wants us to understand to be “destroyed” is the natural consequence…

2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell. Rev 20:14 is clear that they die– they don’t live forever in hell at all.



So there you go folks– the testimony of the whole of scripture does not testify to hell as a place where you are alive and tortured for all eternity. Instead, from the beginning to the end of scripture we are warned that refusing to be reconciled to God– the author and sustainer of life– results in a natural outcome: the finality of death which is the ultimate destruction.

I would encourage you to just read the Bible– and read it without the lens of hell that you grew up with. If you read it without those lenses to distort what you see, you’ll find that eternal hell isn’t what the Bible warns us about– it warns us about a second death.


WTH?

I wish I had this much time on my hands.
 
How do you know that we aren't living in hell now? Look at all the hatred, evil, suffering both mental and physical, etc. that is here on earth. Xtians preach that if you think this is bad just wait. We can escape this earthly hell in only one way.
It's been going on since man started walking the earth, nothing has changed in that regard. And yes, as a Christian I believe this life (or hell on earth, as you put it) is temporary and trivial, it's only going to get better. Way better!
 
It's been going on since man started walking the earth, nothing has changed in that regard. And yes, as a Christian I believe this life (or hell on earth, as you put it) is temporary and trivial, it's only going to get better. Way better!

Perfect illustration of how wish thinking is the basis of religiosity right here.
 
Perfect illustration of how wish thinking is the basis of religiosity right here.
Hey we all believe in something. I'm not going to bash you for disagreeing, I respect your stance, whatever it is. We get 75 or 80 years on this earth, tops, I'm gonna enjoy every minute, believe in the risen Christ and apply those principles to my life. Best of luck to you, fellow Tar Heel.
 
Well, the traditional view on hell is that it is somewhere people go when they die. Then after the 1,000 year reign of Christ Satan runs amuck and then they, along with the devil and all his peeps, just cease to exist (like the Jon Snow version of the afterlife). So there are not many Christians who believe in hell who actually believe people live there forever, which seems to be implied in the OP. I think what is way more important is to focus on Christ and how we should live our life.
 
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There really no reason to rebutal you on this. For some reason you insist on taking the fight to anyone who believes in the God of the KJV Bible.

I do t have time to dig all the scriptures up for you, but plenty about hell in the Bible.
Second death, eternal separation from God
Death and hell cast into the lake of fire, Jesus teaching on the rich man and lazereth. In that scripture alone Jesus said in hell the rich man lifted his eyes. Rich man tells of his being tormented in the flame
We all get that you hate religions abroad. We all do not agree on much really. I just don't understand the constant downing and belittling of people you deem "religious"
As bleed alluded to, you live your life, I'll live mine and we will see who is right in the end.
 
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There really no reason to rebutal you on this. For some reason you insist on taking the fight to anyone who believes in the God of the KJV Bible.

I do t have time to dig all the scriptures up for you, but plenty about hell in the Bible.
Second death, eternal separation from God
Death and hell cast into the lake of fire, Jesus teaching on the rich man and lazereth. In that scripture alone Jesus said in hell the rich man lifted his eyes. Rich man tells of his being tormented in the flame
We all get that you hate religions abroad. We all do not agree on much really. I just don't understand the constant downing and belittling of people you deem "religious"
As bleed alluded to, you live your life, I'll live mine and we will see who is right in the end.
I thought it might help some to remove the fear. If you want to believe it exists, that's your choice.

There is no "end" where we get to compare who got it right or wrong.
 
I thought it might help some to remove the fear. If you want to believe it exists, that's your choice.

There is no "end" where we get to compare who got it right or wrong.

Just curious how your addition of "above us, only Sky!" (which I think any reasonable assumption would be that you are claiming there is no heaven) is removing anyone's fear?
 
Just curious how your addition of "above us, only Sky!" (which I think any reasonable assumption would be that you are claiming there is no heaven) is removing anyone's fear?

I took that to mean that the belief many have is heaven is above us in the sky somewhere might just be a little inaccurate. I don't believe "heaven" is a magic place in the sky. I believe when our souls leave our bodies we do evolve to a place of peace but not necessarily in the sky or above it.
 
Do any of you who pray ever sit in silence afterwards and listen to what God tells you? Without pages from a book but Simply listen to what God says to your soul?? It took me a very long time to get there but when you stop, surrender and truly listen with your ego removed from you, you hear things that give your soul true peace. Take the ego and world out just once, it's amazing.
 
I do every morning after my devotion. Bible says that God speaks in a small still voice.

Irritates me that we are suppose to have honest debates when those debating are sliding in underhanded back slap comments that comes from those discussions. Then some who profess Jesus gets upset after the comments so they lose it. So neither side represents well. Debates on this board are nothing more than fights and pissing contest. To me, a good debate would be take a question such as does God exist. Debate the idea without using scripture or any outside source. Just simple personal feelings. Add in that no underhanded jabs be made from one side or another. That would reveal why people personally believe. Not what the i telnet told them to say
 
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None of us are asking for help on here. We are attempting to have a friendly debate and there had been previous discussions on some living in fear (apparently of some man floating over the universe watching to make sure we all behave).

Correct, no one has asked for anyone's help. Which was my point. Thanks for reinforcing it.

Now shut up and go make me a sammich.

(I just figured if it is cool to post derogatory comments about Christianity, then it is ok to make derogatory comments about females.)
 
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I do every morning after my devotion. Bible says that God speaks in a small still voice.

Irritates me that we are suppose to have honest debates when those debating are sliding in underhanded back slap comments that comes from those discussions. Then some who profess Jesus gets upset after the comments so they lose it. So neither side represents well. Debates on this board are nothing more than fights and pissing contest. To me, a good debate would be take a question such as does God exist. Debate the idea without using scripture or any outside source. Just simple personal feelings. Add in that no underhanded jabs be made from one side or another. That would reveal why people personally believe. Not what the i telnet told them to say


That would be a good debate. And my faith stems from the fact that the Universe is organized and governed by laws which shows that it was created, rather than randomly slung together. So given that it was created, then there must be a creator or creators, right?
 
Correct, no one has asked for anyone's help. Which was my point. Thanks for reinforcing it.

Now shut up and go make me a sammich.

(I just figured if it is cool to post derogatory comments about Christianity, then it is ok to make derogatory comments about females.)
LOL I can handle it ;):p

I give up waiting for you to earn that sammich so what kind do you want??? Haha
 
I do every morning after my devotion. Bible says that God speaks in a small still voice.

Irritates me that we are suppose to have honest debates when those debating are sliding in underhanded back slap comments that comes from those discussions. Then some who profess Jesus gets upset after the comments so they lose it. So neither side represents well. Debates on this board are nothing more than fights and pissing contest. To me, a good debate would be take a question such as does God exist. Debate the idea without using scripture or any outside source. Just simple personal feelings. Add in that no underhanded jabs be made from one side or another. That would reveal why people personally believe. Not what the i telnet told them to say

Good idea. Start that thread and let's hope no one will be an ass and just state how THEY believe.

Is there a way to do pills on this forum??
 
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