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No Hell below us... above us, only Sky! There is no Hell- Bible says so!

Just curious how your addition of "above us, only Sky!" (which I think any reasonable assumption would be that you are claiming there is no heaven) is removing anyone's fear?
Those are the lyrics to "Imagine" by John Lennon. I always took his intent as removing the superstitions that succeed in dividing us. Then we realize how we are all just individuations of a larger whole.
 
That would be a good debate. And my faith stems from the fact that the Universe is organized and governed by laws which shows that it was created, rather than randomly slung together. So given that it was created, then there must be a creator or creators, right?
Agree 100%.

God and our Faith is intact with or without religions.

Organized religion winds up getting people to worship them... not knowing God! Religions actually NEED people to worship them! It needs God's creation to be imperfect, so they can moderate. That is why they all claim God "needs" things. God needs absolutely nothing. Religions like to make sure we think that we are inferior and "less than perfect" so they can provide the ticket to the perfection. There is no imperfection. There is no need for anything at all. God is a creator and observer if anything. These religions that have sprung-up to try and make sense of our existence are becoming obsolete. They no longer make sense. They have served their purpose. People very often put their trust in the religion, and abandon their Faith in GOD.

The reason for the OP was to say that Religion and the Church created Hell... not God! That's why it's not a real thing! But, it works great in keeping people in-line and doing what they say is right or wrong. It's a control mechanism, period.
 
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And FYI that is a much better way to gauge forum opinions than some kind of half-baked, self-made "Rank 'Em" thread.
crazy-talk.gif
 
Waiting for next thread started by Strum stating there is no Satan...

I read the Bible daily and have for years. There is a Hell, but it may be different than most modern understandings. The Bible first called it sheol.


Jesus said "there will be weeping and and knashing of teeth" Call it what you want but it sounds like Hell to me.
 
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I dont know about flames and pitchforks and all that stuff .. I've always understood it to be 'separation from God for eternity' ... and based on my knowledge and belief of Heaven and the presence of God, the idea of permanent separation sounds terrible to me.
 
None of us are asking for help on here. We are attempting to have a friendly debate and there had been previous discussions on some living in fear (apparently of some man floating over the universe watching to make sure we all behave).
you are to new to the board to know any better...so I will excuse your obvious inaccurate post....this time!!!
 
Waiting for next thread started by Strum stating there is no Satan...

I read the Bible daily and have for years. There is a Hell, but it may be different than most modern understandings. The Bible first called it sheol.


Jesus said "there will be weeping and and knashing of teeth" Call it what you want but it sounds like Hell to me.
There is no Satan either. No new thread needed.
 
Any ideology that has to rely upon convincing its followers that those who refuse to obey its injunctions will be subjected to eternal torture, is neither grounded in logic nor morality. Teaching children this... is a form of child abuse. Its sickening how many people are brainwashed as children by the fear of hell into believing in bronze age cult nonsense.

Frankly, heaven doesn't sound much better to me. Endless praising of the supreme leader and creator until the end of time? No thanks. Sounds exactly like effing North Korea.
 
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Any ideology that has to rely upon convincing its followers that those who refuse to obey its injunctions will be subjected to eternal torture, is neither grounded in logic nor morality. Teaching children this... is a form of child abuse. Its sickening how many people are brainwashed as children by the fear of hell into believing in bronze age cult nonsense.

I agree with this.

Frankly, heaven doesn't sound much better to me. Endless praising of the supreme leader and creator until the end of time? No thanks. Sounds exactly like effing North Korea.

And I would agree with this, if that is the case - but I'd like to think if there is a heaven, that it's not "endless praising of the supreme leader and creator".
 
I agree with this.



And I would agree with this, if that is the case - but I'd like to think if there is a heaven, that it's not "endless praising of the supreme leader and creator".

It isn't... that is what man/religion came up with. Heaven is peace, complete and total peace. Imagine the happiest feeling you have EVER had and multiply that by a bazillion....heaven!
 
Heaven is real
Hell is Hot
Choose wisely

Listen, I know no one is going to change anyone elses mind on here about being a Christ Follower or not. About believing the Bible or not. But so many are so miss informed. Y'all know I'm a Pastor-Bible believing-Christ Following husband of one wife for almost 49 years now. I bid you peace.
 
Heaven is real
Hell is Hot
Choose wisely

Listen, I know no one is going to change anyone elses mind on here about being a Christ Follower or not. About believing the Bible or not. But so many are so miss informed. Y'all know I'm a Pastor-Bible believing-Christ Following husband of one wife for almost 49 years now. I bid you peace.
Hi Mike, I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have a question. A lady was in the store yesterday and she made a comment that there was a church near her house and she didn't know whether they were real Christians or not. I hear comments like this a lot. My whole life I have assumed that if you believed that Jesus Christ is the son of God, he died on a cross, and was risen on the 3rd day, then you were a Christian. I have always thought that the term Christian is only used to separate people who do not believe in Jesus Christ like Jews, Muslims, Hindu, etc. and people who do believe in him like Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, etc. etc.
 
Hi Mike, I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have a question. A lady was in the store yesterday and she made a comment that there was a church near her house and she didn't know whether they were real Christians or not. I hear comments like this a lot. My whole life I have assumed that if you believed that Jesus Christ is the son of God, he died on a cross, and was risen on the 3rd day, then you were a Christian. I have always thought that the term Christian is only used to separate people who do not believe in Jesus Christ like Jews, Muslims, Hindu, etc. and people who do believe in him like Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, etc. etc.

Oh I get that one all the time just for being a Catholic. I was raised in Protestant churches but ended up in the Catholic Church and everyone thinks I am suddenly not a Christian anymore, and it is one reason I have started reading scripture and THEN immediately praying and letting God guide me, since I do know that the Bible is FROM men INSPIRED by God in which God came to these men in dreams and various other ways.... ways God comes to me too and I just take all EGO out of everything and ask God to show me the truth.

Ego is where I believe scriptures that indicate "endless praising of the supreme leader and creator" come from. When I asked God to tell me how to put God's love in my life and not have it contradicted by the things I read in scripture that cause confusion and division, of which I have found many, then I get an answer that I don't find in the Bible but in my soul, and in God residing within me. It is so different.

I find many, many beautiful things in scripture but whenever love and peace is juxtaposed with things that don't make sense like casting into an eternal fire for sinning, I have to just trust God to guide me on those. God loves and is infallible... man is capable of imperfection, hatred, misunderstanding, distortion of the truth and more, so I go with God on it and take the things that bring love and peace from the book inspired by God but from man, kings, etc. Just my opinion though.
 
Any ideology that has to rely upon convincing its followers that those who refuse to obey its injunctions will be subjected to eternal torture, is neither grounded in logic nor morality. Teaching children this... is a form of child abuse. Its sickening how many people are brainwashed as children by the fear of hell into believing in bronze age cult nonsense.

Frankly, heaven doesn't sound much better to me. Endless praising of the supreme leader and creator until the end of time? No thanks. Sounds exactly like effing North Korea.

That's not my heaven. My heaven is on 100,000 acres of undisturbed land with cold rivers running through it where I catch 10 pound trout. It also has the most amazing golf course where I shoot par or better every time I go out. Then I come back to the clubhouse and drink free Natty Lights and eat steak while watching the Heels win every contest they play on a 200 " hi-def flat TV. And all my family and friends are there...and I have an endless supply of the best jokes that keep people in stitches.

Your heaven sucks. Mine is way better. But oh, sorry, we're full. Maybe yours will get better. Or maybe, you'll just get stuck in the ground and rot. Either way, I'll be thinking of you buddy.
 
Yes Gun, teaching children about Jesus Christ is child abuse ... but allowing grown men to shower with them is not. What do you not understand??
 
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That's not my heaven. My heaven is on 100,000 acres of undisturbed land with cold rivers running through it where I catch 10 pound trout. It also has the most amazing golf course where I shoot par or better every time I go out. Then I come back to the clubhouse and drink free Natty Lights and eat steak while watching the Heels win every contest they play on a 200 " hi-def flat TV. And all my family and friends are there...and I have an endless supply of the best jokes that keep people in stitches.

Your heaven sucks. Mine is way better. But oh, sorry, we're full. Maybe yours will get better. Or maybe, you'll just get stuck in the ground and rot. Either way, I'll be thinking of you buddy.

I agree. Heaven is a spiritual existence that we get a glimpse of in our dream world. Our conciousness goes to another level where the things of this earth are irrelevant. Just think about it. Jesus says we wont be married, wont be hungry, we wont be sad, then consider your dreams. How many dreams do u have where the reality seems just as real as awake yet u dont have a wife or kids, or job or a car. Thats what heaven will be like. We prob wont even know we're in heaven. We'll just exist but in a much better existence. As for hell, well imo its the same thing. difference is whether or not your "spirit" is positive and loving or negative and perhaps "evil". Your next life will be a proportionate reflection of your spirit in this life. If you're a murdering selfish pos that noone loves then you will spend the next life being an unloved murderous pos. Only the most extreme of evil people will endure torment. If you torture and abuse children i imagine your next existence will be as torturous for u as u made it for those kids.
 
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as someone said earlier the bible says Hell is separation from GOD.

what if we are all eternal beings and everyone spends all eternity with Christ (whatever that looks like) with the full understanding and knowledge his is who he said he is-----GOD's son. which by definition means everyone (and i mean everyone including Adollf Hitler, etc) spends eternity with their creator in full awareness of the limitless love he has for them. the separation you have maybe similar to the separation a husband may feel if he cheats on his wife and she totally forgives him and loves him anyway. try as hard as you can but there is no way to go back an unwind the past. You would in some way feel separated from her because you realize through her love and forgiveness that you have screwed up and can not change it. Imagine having to live knowing Christ is who he said he is (actually understanding that unimaginable love he has for us) and you can't go back and changed the way you lived with that knowledge for all eternity-------sounds like hell to me.

also this hell takes the idea of a GOD who can't wait to throw us into a burning pit if we screw up out of the picture when you realize God's love is the same for all of us regardless of what we do. it is each of us that separates yourself form GOD based on what we did with our time on earth.

just something to think about.......
 
I agree. Heaven is a spiritual existence that we get a glimpse of in our dream world. Our conciousness goes to another level where the things of this earth are irrelevant. Just think about it. Jesus says we wont be married, wont be hungry, we wont be sad, then consider your dreams. How many dreams do u have where the reality seems just as real as awake yet u dont have a wife or kids, or job or a car. Thats what heaven will be like. We prob wont even know we're in heaven. We'll just exist but in a much better existence. As for hell, well imo its the same thing. difference is whether or not your "spirit" is positive and loving or negative and perhaps "evil". Your next life will be a proportionate reflection of your spirit in this life. If you're a murdering selfish pos that noone loves then you will spend the next life being an unloved murderous pos. Only the most extreme of evil people will endure torment. If you torture and abuse children i imagine your next existence will be as torturous for u as u made it for those kids.
You seem to have gotten a bit more "sophisticated" in your spiritual perceptions than when I first came to the board... at least from my best recollections. I am impressed with the depth of understanding and the way you share it. Thank you!
 
as someone said earlier the bible says Hell is separation from GOD.

what if we are all eternal beings and everyone spends all eternity with Christ (whatever that looks like) with the full understanding and knowledge his is who he said he is-----GOD's son. which by definition means everyone (and i mean everyone including Adollf Hitler, etc) spends eternity with their creator in full awareness of the limitless love he has for them. the separation you have maybe similar to the separation a husband may feel if he cheats on his wife and she totally forgives him and loves him anyway. try as hard as you can but there is no way to go back an unwind the past. You would in some way feel separated from her because you realize through her love and forgiveness that you have screwed up and can not change it. Imagine having to live knowing Christ is who he said he is (actually understanding that unimaginable love he has for us) and you can't go back and changed the way you lived with that knowledge for all eternity-------sounds like hell to me.

also this hell takes the idea of a GOD who can't wait to throw us into a burning pit if we screw up out of the picture when you realize God's love is the same for all of us regardless of what we do. it is each of us that separates yourself form GOD based on what we did with our time on earth.

just something to think about.......
Well said and understood and thank you!

Jesus was a perfect example of God-made-flesh and implored us to realize that WE ARE ALL the same as He is! We are ALL equal to Christ, we just don't all realize it, experience it and share it like Jesus of Nazareth. To me, Jesus Christ of Nazareth was someone who was very critical of organized religion. Ironically., they created a religion after him!
 
Well said and understood and thank you!

Jesus was a perfect example of God-made-flesh and implored us to realize that WE ARE ALL the same as He is! We are ALL equal to Christ, we just don't all realize it, experience it and share it like Jesus of Nazareth. To me, Jesus Christ of Nazareth was someone who was very critical of organized religion. Ironically., they created a religion after him!

So you believe that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was real and significant ... but you do not believe in Satan or Hell ... is that right? Not criticizing, just trying to keep up.
 
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Heaven is real
Hell is Hot
Good distinction. Hell is hot, just like Narnia (before Aslan) was cold. But, neither are real. "Heaven" is real. heaven is oneness with God.

The Christian religion created the entire notion of a "Hot Hell", with the fiery pits, cavernous torture chambers and bifurcated, half-human/half-animal demon creatures running around poking the "people" in Hell. Now, that does NOT mean that the Christian religion was all bad. It has some very incredible aspects to it as well.

Like most religions, it is well-intentioned and supposed to bring people peace and togetherness... until you bring another religion, or even another sub-religion into the picture. What turns me off to most organized religions is their own blatant hypocrisies and the way they mock God in order to control people. The Abrahamic religions, especially Christianity and Islam, are so insecure. Catholics and Protestants killing each other. Sunnis and Shias killing each other. And, these people all have the SAME SAVIOR figure in their belief systems. They discriminate against each other! I'm glad, and thankful, that the religions help people. I just can't subscribe to them personally because they make me feel like I am actually limiting my understanding of God.
 
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So you believe that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was real and significant ... but you do not believe in Satan or Hell ... is that right? Not criticizing, just trying to keep up.
Absolutely significant. We are ALL just Jesus'es anyway. All of us are Jesus! Jesus even implored to those who followed him to understand that "the works that I do YOU SHALL DO also; and greater works than these shall you do." Most people never consider themselves worthy of it, so Jesus was like "Look, if you can't believe in yourself, then believe in yourself THROUGH ME! But, just BELIEVE!" The organized religions have sorta hijacked the overall message so they can control people. Maybe it was necessary at the time, I dunno.

Also, a lot of organized religion is based on events that took place 200+ years ago. For some reason, they sorta like to ignore that God is just as active now and passing on God's Word every second of every day. These words I am typing right now is THE WORD OF GOD! It doesn't have to be old to be the Word of God. In fact, "Time" is just another human construct that doesn't technically exist either. We merely "think" that it does.
 
Absolutely significant. We are ALL just Jesus'es anyway. All of us are Jesus! Jesus even implored to those who followed him to understand that "the works that I do YOU SHALL DO also; and greater works than these shall you do." Most people never consider themselves worthy of it, so Jesus was like "Look, if you can't believe in yourself, then believe in yourself THROUGH ME! But, just BELIEVE!" The organized religions have sorta hijacked the overall message so they can control people. Maybe it was necessary at the time, I dunno.

Also, a lot of organized religion is based on events that took place 200+ years ago. For some reason, they sorta like to ignore that God is just as active now and passing on God's Word every second of every day. These words I am typing right now is THE WORD OF GOD! It doesn't have to be old to be the Word of God. In fact, "Time" is just another human construct that doesn't technically exist either. We merely "think" that it does.

nailed it!!! ;)
 
Wait a minute,...you agree with that f**king idiot that teaching children the ways of Christ is a "form of child abuse"? Please tell me I'm reading that wrong. I will be terribly disappointed to learn this is your stance.

I should have cut the quote off at the first sentence if I was going to say I agree with it. I feel like a religion trying to control people into all thinking the exact same way and not leaving room for interpretation, as well as threatening eternal damnation if you slightly stray off the designated path is ridiculous. I guess I never have agreed with uncboy10 on anything, so I got a little hasty when I realized I finally agreed with him on something. But yes, in his typical "progressive" manner, he kind of jumped the shark calling it child abuse. Although I do feel like cramming religious strories down kids throats just for the sake of it isnt very productive.

I was born Catholic - and as I've stated on here before: I absolutely believe in a higher power, supreme being, God, or whatever you want to call it. I still somewhat identify as a Catholic (when asked, that's still the box I check), but I don't blindly go along with everything in that religion just because I feel I have to. And I think that the Bible has a lot of very important morals and teachings to convey. But I also think that people who blindly believe any metaphor that is written in there, aren't doing themselves the justice of figuring it out on their own. I guess what I'm trying to say is, what makes the people that wrote the Bible the gurus on God? Why is it not possible that there are some inaccuracies, or misinterpretations in there, just like there could be in any other book ever written?

drink free Natty Lights

Can't get any better beer than Natty Lights up there!?
 
I think that when people try to understand God by using the filter of an organized religion- especially these ancient religions- they wind up creating a God that is essentially just a super-human parental figure that exists in some parallel realm. That's fine, I guess... except it is limiting God to just that. God is EVERYTHING! God is ALL there IS and ALL there ever has been. If you need for God to be this super-human parental figure that floats around and watches over us in a phantom form, that's your choice. But, it doesn't make other people "wrong" when they choose for God to be something else,it just makes them different! A lot of people seem to prefer that God should be ONE THING. I like it when God is ALL things! And, God likes it that I like that, too! The idea that God made Satan and then made some eternal "I Told You So" vengeful torture chamber is just absurd to me. To me, that whole notion makes a mockery of God!
 
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I was born Catholic
Actually, you were BORN a perfect, small piece of God. You were TAUGHT Catholic! ;) That's where people get stuck I think.

I truly believe that was a major role of Jesus in His time. Jesus was extremely critical of the organized religion and its control over the people of Judea. That's why they wanted him dead! And, even when they killed Him, he begged for them to be forgiven. I highly doubt that if you asked the Sanhedrin "Will Jesus be with God?" they would have answered Yes.
 
I should have cut the quote off at the first sentence if I was going to say I agree with it. I feel like a religion trying to control people into all thinking the exact same way and not leaving room for interpretation, as well as threatening eternal damnation if you slightly stray off the designated path is ridiculous. I guess I never have agreed with uncboy10 on anything, so I got a little hasty when I realized I finally agreed with him on something. But yes, in his typical "progressive" manner, he kind of jumped the shark calling it child abuse. Although I do feel like cramming religious strories down kids throats just for the sake of it isnt very productive.

I was born Catholic - and as I've stated on here before: I absolutely believe in a higher power, supreme being, God, or whatever you want to call it. I still somewhat identify as a Catholic (when asked, that's still the box I check), but I don't blindly go along with everything in that religion just because I feel I have to. And I think that the Bible has a lot of very important morals and teachings to convey. But I also think that people who blindly believe any metaphor that is written in there, aren't doing themselves the justice of figuring it out on their own. I guess what I'm trying to say is, what makes the people that wrote the Bible the gurus on God? Why is it not possible that there are some inaccuracies, or misinterpretations in there, just like there could be in any other book ever written?



Can't get any better beer than Natty Lights up there!?

5star.jpeg

That's right, fella, I can do stars too! ha!
 
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I should have cut the quote off at the first sentence if I was going to say I agree with it. I feel like a religion trying to control people into all thinking the exact same way and not leaving room for interpretation, as well as threatening eternal damnation if you slightly stray off the designated path is ridiculous. I guess I never have agreed with uncboy10 on anything, so I got a little hasty when I realized I finally agreed with him on something. But yes, in his typical "progressive" manner, he kind of jumped the shark calling it child abuse. Although I do feel like cramming religious strories down kids throats just for the sake of it isnt very productive.

I was born Catholic - and as I've stated on here before: I absolutely believe in a higher power, supreme being, God, or whatever you want to call it. I still somewhat identify as a Catholic (when asked, that's still the box I check), but I don't blindly go along with everything in that religion just because I feel I have to. And I think that the Bible has a lot of very important morals and teachings to convey. But I also think that people who blindly believe any metaphor that is written in there, aren't doing themselves the justice of figuring it out on their own. I guess what I'm trying to say is, what makes the people that wrote the Bible the gurus on God? Why is it not possible that there are some inaccuracies, or misinterpretations in there, just like there could be in any other book ever written?


Can't get any better beer than Natty Lights up there!?

Y'all tell stories of people threatening damnation like you attend Westboro Baptist Church. Is this really how the Christians you know act? I've been a member of 3 Episcopal churches throughout my life and I have never come across anyone threatening damnation. It's much more relaxed than what some of y'all make it out to be. Frankly, we're allowed to worship however we see fit. My kids attend Catholic school and I've never been made to feel uncomfortable there either with regards to how I worship. And even if some priest did come at me that way, I'd tell him to piss off. My spirituality and religious affiliation don't need direction or a middle man. I worship where I please, when I please and in the manner in which I please and I don't apologize to anyone for that. I have faith that Jesus died for my sins and I have given much of my life to helping others. So from where I sit, I'm in good shape. Someone telling me I'm not doesn't mean anything. My religion suits me. If that's not the case and I end up in hell, then I'll cross that bridge when I get there. But as it stands right now, in my mind, I'm going to that place I described a few poasts up.
 
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what if we are all eternal beings and everyone spends all eternity with Christ (whatever that looks like) with the full understanding and knowledge his is who he said he is-----GOD's son. which by definition means everyone (and i mean everyone including Adollf Hitler, etc) spends eternity with their creator in full awareness of the limitless love he has for them. the separation you have maybe similar to the separation a husband may feel if he cheats on his wife and she totally forgives him and loves him anyway. try as hard as you can but there is no way to go back an unwind the past. You would in some way feel separated from her because you realize through her love and forgiveness that you have screwed up and can not change it. Imagine having to live knowing Christ is who he said he is (actually understanding that unimaginable love he has for us) and you can't go back and changed the way you lived with that knowledge for all eternity-------sounds like hell to me.
.


Am I still catching 10 lbs. trout?
 
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most definitely

Well then I might be ok with Jesus being a little disappointed in me. Tell ya what, I'll let him win on my golf course next time we play. That should make up for any wrongdoings throughout my life.
 
Well said and understood and thank you!

Jesus was a perfect example of God-made-flesh and implored us to realize that WE ARE ALL the same as He is! We are ALL equal to Christ, we just don't all realize it, experience it and share it like Jesus of Nazareth. To me, Jesus Christ of Nazareth was someone who was very critical of organized religion. Ironically., they created a religion after him!


Not sure i agree with the part of we are all equal to Christ. while i definitely think Christ was fully man, i also believe he is fully GOD. regardless of what my eternal being will be like, i don't think it will be like GOD.
 
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