No Hell below us... above us, only Sky! There is no Hell- Bible says so!

[plm]

Well then I might be ok with Jesus being a little disappointed in me. Tell ya what, I'll let him win on my golf course next time we play. That should make up for any wrongdoings throughout my life.

i read something somewhere that said--there is nothing you can do to make Jesus/GOD love you any more or there is nothing you can do to make Jesus/GOD love you any less. to me that is such a freeing expression---i really don't think Jesus keeps score at all.

 

[gunslingerdick]

i read something somewhere that said--there is nothing you can do to make Jesus/GOD love you any more or there is nothing you can do to make Jesus/GOD love you any less. to me that is such a freeing expression---i really don't think Jesus keeps score at all.

Well shit. It's party time then. Break out the 8-ball and call the hookers.

 

[plm]

Well shit. It's party time then. Break out the 8-ball and call the hookers.

in my theory you nailed it. what im saying is that from GOD's perspective it doesn't matter what you do. whether you are an 8-ball/hooker lover, or a serial killer we are all destined to live forever with a God that we cannot fathom how much he loves us until we get there and experience it. its only when we experience that love and actually understand it that we realize that we wish we could go back and change the way we lived. not out of fear of going to "hell" but out of our response to the love we are now aware of and wanting to give something back in response to it. the hell is not actually being able to go back and change anything given this awareness of his actual love. either way from God's perspective you are spending eternity with him regardless of what you do in the 70/80 years here.

PS i've heard the 8-ball and hooker lifestyle is actually very unsatisfying anyway....

 

[gunslingerdick]

in my theory you nailed it. what im saying is that from GOD's perspective it doesn't matter what you do. whether you are an 8-ball/hooker lover, or a serial killer we are all destined to live forever with a God that we cannot fathom how much he loves us until we get there and experience it. its only when we experience that love and actually understand it that we realize that we wish we could go back and change the way we lived. not out of fear of going to "hell" but out of our response to the love we are now aware of and wanting to give something back in response to it. the hell is not actually being able to go back and change anything given this awareness of his actual love. either way from God's perspective you are spending eternity with him regardless of what you do in the 70/80 years here.

Well, that's your heaven. And that's fine. But I'm not letting any murderers and rapist come fishing with me in my heaven.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

Your heaven sounds like hell for fish.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Your heaven sounds like hell for fish.

lol

But they have their own heaven where they swim freely in the cleanest water and eat worms and crickets and shit all day. The ones I'm catching were murderers and rapist and those that didn't make it to fish heaven.

 

[bleeduncblue]

Actually, you were BORN a perfect, small piece of God. You were TAUGHT Catholic! That's where people get stuck I think.

I truly believe that was a major role of Jesus in His time. Jesus was extremely critical of the organized religion and its control over the people of Judea. That's why they wanted him dead! And, even when they killed Him, he begged for them to be forgiven. I highly doubt that if you asked the Sanhedrin "Will Jesus be with God?" they would have answered Yes.

So you think people were born "perfect" ? Where is that stated in the Bible?

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

So you think people were born "perfect" ? Where is that stated in the Bible?

God made us in his image... God is perfect. We are perfect love because God is. We are absolute and complete in God.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

So you think people were born "perfect" ? Where is that stated in the Bible?

Personally, my belief is that I wasn't born perfect. Instead I believe that I need to build a perfect me over the course of my life. But I certainly don't think things "are" or "aren't" because of whether they were included in a book written a couple thousand years ago. The people who wrote the Bible were human too - I don't see why their interpretations should be deemed any more correct than anyone else's.

 

[strummingram]

So you think people were born "perfect" ? Where is that stated in the Bible?

Here's a simple explanation. You believe in a "Judeo-Christian" God. I just believe in God. There was God before there were Hebrews, Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Mormons and everything else.

 

[heelmanwilm]

its interesting that the more i read the bible and studied its history and the different translations and the oldest manuscripts the more i realized that it cant be "the word of God". Its full of errors, its had additions hundreds of years later than when written, it has words added for effect, it contradicts itself in describing events, it has translation controversies. Its an awesome book and i draw a lot of inspiration from it and am amazed at some things but theres just no way it can be the inerrant word of God. Realizing that truth really freed me from the binds of organized religious doctrine.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I agree with strum. I was definitely born perfect. Not sure about the rest of y'all.

 

[strummingram]

Just to clarify: By perfect, I don't mean that while we're in this shell and consciousness that we always exhibit our perfection! BEING perfect and SHOWING it are two different things! We have the perfection in us. Whether or not we choose to act on it or not is where it can appear that we lack the perfection. God is in us all. We are not separated from God... EVER! That is another illusion that organized religion likes to push. They like to make people feel that they are lacking God and they have the "plan" to follow that gets you linked-back-up with God. That's another control mechanism. Now, not all religions, or churches manipulate that the same way, or to the same extreme. But it is at least implied in all of them, from my experience.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Grayhead]

I personally believe in the born again experience. Salvation thru Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible to be true. I believe the original text were given by inspiration of God . This is how I pattern my life. This is what I teach my children . It has been this way for me since birth.
There has to be accountability for evil. It's a checks and balance system. The teachings of the Bible are too pure to be over looked. God is love. He loves the person, but hates the sin they commit. There is a reward for those who serve him. But it's clear that Jesus said no one comes to the father except thru him. We are given a life of choice. As you can see, many are choosing their own path. Which is fine with me, no condemnation from me.
I have had a personal experience in my youth that made me a solid believer. Nothing anyone will ever say can change that. I will not share it with this board due to the certain ones who attack this belief.
And to the ones who think it's child abuse to raise a child in this way, what's your problem.
Teaching a kid morals and standing up for them is a right we have in this country.
This is what bothers me the most about these hot topic issues today. We cannot simply disagree. The moral ones have to subject to the new ways. We are not allowed to object. Things should be voted on. Not that it matters, the supreme Court will change it anyway

 

[strummingram]

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

More symbolism:

LINK


�Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

If Revelation were to be understood literally then you might be correct. However, Revelation is a book of symbols.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified (Greek semaino) it by his angel unto his servant John:

As it is without doubt that the Bible uses symbolic as well as literal terminology, it is evident that we are required to discern the one from the other.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

We need to decide whether this lake of fire and brimstone is real or symbolic. The text tells us that the lake is (or represents) the second death.

14�And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I believe the lake of fire to represent complete destruction for the following reasons:

Death cannot be literally cast into a lake of fire

Hell cannot be literally cast into a lake of fire

The Beast which theoretically could be cast into a lake of fire cannot be understood as a literal beast. There is no such beast with seven heads and ten horns literally tormented in a lake of fire – it represents something else which will be destroyed.

The false prophet (which is another name for the two horned beast) is not a literal person – it represents apostate religion - something which cannot be literally tormented by fire.

The devil is not the fallen angel of Christian mythology but rather a symbol for the propensity to sin which resides within man both individually and collectively in human government and society, which cannot be literally cast into a lake of fire or tormented.

To recap

Into this (symbolic) lake are thrown:

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Believe as you will, I just happen to believe it is much more than symbolic. Are you right and me wrong? We will see later on.

 

[strummingram]

Believe as you will, I just happen to believe it is much more than symbolic. Are you right and me wrong? We will see later on.

Neither is "right" or "wrong." It's just a different interpretation.

I find people who have a need for a Hell to exist, also wind-up creating, and thus "serving" a very humanistic God. Their God's love is conditional, like most people. Their God has a need to be served and worshiped and obeyed, like most people... most royal, nobility people from the ancient times when these texts were written, actually. Their God is prone to some of the most arcane human behavior. Basically, they create God in their image. I'm not saying they are wrong and I'm right. I'm just saying I interpret it differently. And, I'm not sending anyone to Hell "later on" the way I interpret it. We ALL are forgiven and return to the source and the Creator.

 

[bleeduncblue]

Neither is "right" or "wrong." It's just a different interpretation.

I find people who have a need for a Hell to exist, also wind-up creating, and thus "serving" a very humanistic God. Their God's love is conditional, like most people. Their God has a need to be served and worshiped and obeyed, like most people... most royal, nobility people from the ancient times when these texts were written, actually. Their God is prone to some of the most arcane human behavior. Basically, they create God in their image. I'm not saying they are wrong and I'm right. I'm just saying I interpret it differently. And, I'm not sending anyone to Hell "later on" the way I interpret it. We ALL are forgiven and return to the source and the Creator.

I serve, worship and love God simply because of the sacrifice He made for me - nothing more, nothing less. And God most certainly doesn't NEED any of us to love Him. His love is absolutely unconditional, which is amazing and freeing.

 

[uncboy10]

Yeah, that's a pretty ridiculous characterization IMO.

If you say so.

That's not my heaven. My heaven is on 100,000 acres of undisturbed land with cold rivers running through it where I catch 10 pound trout. It also has the most amazing golf course where I shoot par or better every time I go out. Then I come back to the clubhouse and drink free Natty Lights and eat steak while watching the Heels win every contest they play on a 200 " hi-def flat TV. And all my family and friends are there...and I have an endless supply of the best jokes that keep people in stitches.

Your heaven sucks. Mine is way better. But oh, sorry, we're full. Maybe yours will get better. Or maybe, you'll just get stuck in the ground and rot. Either way, I'll be thinking of you buddy.

The fact that you would be drinking natty light in heaven should be all of the proof that anyone needs that you are not a man of taste.

Yes Gun, teaching children about Jesus Christ is child abuse ... but allowing grown men to shower with them is not. What do you not understand??

As far as I know, there are no historical accounts of the supposed Jesus of Nazareth saying anything about hell. Teaching a child that if they dont believe in a myth, they will be eternally tortured, is absolutely child abuse.

Y'all tell stories of people threatening damnation like you attend Westboro Baptist Church. Is this really how the Christians you know act?

Uhh... yeah. Here's one right here from this very thread.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

If you don't like what it says take it up with God not me.

 

[gunslingerdick]

The fact that you would be drinking natty light in heaven should be all of the proof that anyone needs that you are not a man of taste.
.

And I think that your poasting history should be all the proof that anyone needs that you are not a man, period. You're a child. And frankly, it's laughable that someone that plays cover songs behind a chain link fence for peanuts has the audacity to attempt to evaluate others' taste.

As far as craft beer, I like it too. But I'm not trying to impress anybody with my beer choices, least of all you. But I get it. You probably have worked very hard on your hipster image. Lemme guess, you have a really long beard that you and your craft beer drinking friends think is hilariously awesome. And y'all sit around and smoke American Spirit cigarettes and talk about what zany tattoo you're gonna get next. But I think you'll probably grow out of all that once you've become a member of the real world where you have to work and pay taxes.

As far as I know, there are no historical accounts of the supposed Jesus of Nazareth saying anything about hell. Teaching a child that if they dont believe in a myth, they will be eternally tortured, is absolutely child abuse.

When you have children, your opinion on what child abuse is will matter. Until then, we will all view your poast in the same light that we would view a teenager yelling at mom and dad because he got the car taken away from him for the weekend - "What you're doing to me is child abuse - CHILD ABUSE, I say!".

Uhh... yeah. Here's one right here from this very thread.

No one said you were going to hell. By Mike quoting that passage, he's saying there is indeed a hell and there is the devil. And while he probably would say nonbelievers are going there, he hasn't said that in this thread. And if he were to share his personal views, it would be just that - that nonbelievers are going to hell - nothing specific directed towards you. He wouldn't be nasty about it because he probably couldn't give two shits what happens to you. I know I don't.

 

[uncboy10]

And I think that your poasting history should be all the proof that anyone needs that you are not a man, period. You're a child. And frankly, it's laughable that someone that plays cover songs behind a chain link fence for peanuts has the audacity to attempt to evaluate others' taste.

As far as craft beer, I like it too. But I'm not trying to impress anybody with my beer choices, least of all you. But I get it. You probably have worked very hard on your hipster image. Lemme guess, you have a really long beard that you and your craft beer drinking friends think is hilariously awesome. And y'all sit around and smoke American Spirit cigarettes and talk about what zany tattoo you're gonna get next. But I think you'll probably grow out of all that once you've become a member of the real world where you have to work and pay taxes.

When you have children, your opinion on what child abuse is will matter. Until then, we will all view your poast in the same light that we would view a teenager yelling at mom and dad because he got the car taken away from him for the weekend - "What you're doing to me is child abuse - CHILD ABUSE, I say!".

No one said you were going to hell. By Mike quoting that passage, he's saying there is indeed a hell and there is the devil. And while he probably would say nonbelievers are going there, he hasn't said that in this thread. And if he were to share his personal views, it would be just that - that nonbelievers are going to hell - nothing specific directed towards you. He wouldn't be nasty about it because he probably couldn't give two shits what happens to you. I know I don't.

lol this post just went 0 for 10. I have zero interest in refuting in any of your ridiculous assumptions, but its quite telling that you went to this much effort to attempt to characterize somebody you've never met.

 

[uncboy10]

 

[Grayhead]

Wow boy, I'm glad you think that's how I teach my kids about Jesus. We teach them about his love. I expect nothing more from a mind like you

 

[tarheel0910]

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

If the people teaching kids that are correct, then it's not child abuse, right? While I don't necessarily believe in a Hell per se, it's pretty damn tough to prove that it doesn't exist. And in order to hit someone with a child abuse accusation/charge - the burden of proof is on to you prove that what they're teaching is incorrect (and on top of being incorrect, to be harmful).

 

[Raising Heel]

Unfortunately, the moniker "Captain Hyperbole" is already taken.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Wow boy, I'm glad you think that's how I teach my kids about Jesus. We teach them about his love. I expect nothing more from a mind like you

That dude sucks. I give his opinion on anything zero credibility. He's a puppet that simply repeats what liberal propaganda has been shoved down his throat.

 

[gunslingerdick]

lol this post just went 0 for 10. I have zero interest in refuting in any of your ridiculous assumptions, but its quite telling that you went to this much effort to attempt to characterize somebody you've never met.

translation:

 

[uncboy10]

Wow boy, I'm glad you think that's how I teach my kids about Jesus. We teach them about his love. I expect nothing more from a mind like you

Where did I say that's how you teach your children? Its obviously a fact that a huge number of people do teach their children that. I never said that EVERY christian threatens their children with hell if they dont believe. But quite a lot do. And the book you claim to worship is quite explicit on what awaits anyone who doesn't believe in this nonsense.

If the people teaching kids that are correct, then it's not child abuse, right? While I don't necessarily believe in a Hell per se, it's pretty damn tough to prove that it doesn't exist. And in order to hit someone with a child abuse accusation/charge - the burden of proof is on to you prove that what they're teaching is incorrect (and on top of being incorrect, to be harmful).

I'll help you out there. Its impossible to prove anything doesn't exist. You cant prove a negative. That's basic logic. Its equally impossible to disprove the existence of unicorns.

If you're psychologically warping a child with ridiculous claims that you cant substantiate, then that is a form of child abuse. Quite a lot of non-religious people agree with that, and even some religious people do. Its always difficult to see that kind of thing when you're still inside the cult though.

 

[uncboy10]

That dude sucks. I give his opinion on anything zero credibility. He's a puppet that simply repeats what liberal propaganda has been shoved down his throat.

lol that's pretty rich coming from the guy whose avatar is conservative propaganda.

 

[uncboy10]

If you don't like what it says take it up with God not me.

I dont want to talk to your imaginary friend.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

I dont want to talk to your imaginary friend.

OH but you will.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I'll help you out there. Its impossible to prove anything doesn't exist. You cant prove a negative. That's basic logic. Its equally impossible to disprove the existence of unicorns.

If you're psychologically warping a child with ridiculous claims that you cant substantiate, then that is a form of child abuse. Quite a lot of non-religious people agree with that, and even some religious people do. Its always difficult to see that kind of thing when you're still inside the cult though.

Right, which is why you'll never convince a court to rule that as child abuse. I can understand what you're trying to say, but maybe that's because I'm not in whatever cult you're referring to. Psychologically warping is indeed wrong, but I think you're under the impression that any religious belief is psychologically warping - which is ironically, pretty narrow minded.

 

[Grayhead]

Where did I say that's how you teach your children? Its obviously a fact that a huge number of people do teach their children that. I never said that EVERY christian threatens their children with hell if they dont believe. But quite a lot do. And the book you claim to worship is quite explicit on what awaits anyone who doesn't believe in this nonsense.



I'll help you out there. Its impossible to prove anything doesn't exist. You cant prove a negative. That's basic logic. Its equally impossible to disprove the existence of unicorns.

If you're psychologically warping a child with ridiculous claims that you cant substantiate, then that is a form of child abuse. Quite a lot of non-religious people agree with that, and even some religious people do. Its always difficult to see that kind of thing when you're still inside the cult though.

Your insinuation that christian their children this to threaten them is absurd.
What does it matter to you that someone teaches their child about accountability for doing wrong to themselves or others. I have lived a life of not caring about God, and lived a great portion of my life serving Him. So I can see both sides of the story. What baffles me is why you would hate on Christians so back. Obviously something has happened in your life to make you hate them so much.
You cannot debate any concept of religious or political talk in a neutral manor. There no reason we can't discuss our points without calling each other child abusers.
I feel it's wrong to confuse children about their gender or sexual preference. But modern libs seem to think that all children need to be taught this. I give leeway to parents who raise their children how they want to. But to call what I teach my child abusive is about as moronic as it can be. My child knows compassion, caring attitude, respect, learning that there is evil and consequences for wrong actions, that there is a higher power to lean on if she desires. True Christianity teaches these things as well as the bad side of matters. Why you would be against a morality that has been the basis for the free country since it's beginning is beyond me. You sure partake of its freedoms. Yet you bash one group that makes up a large portion of this country. Without regard of those people's lives or their feelings. You don't want it in your life, fine. Respect others lives and their choices

 

[tarheel0910]

what awaits anyone who doesn't believe in this nonsense.

If you're psychologically warping a child with ridiculous claims that you cant substantiate, then that is a form of child abuse.

you're still inside the cult though.

I dont want to talk to your imaginary friend.

This is what I don't understand about atheists. For some reason they want to belittle and insult those who believe in God. That's why people who are skeptical about religion don't like atheists. Maybe if they could be a little more respectful they could win some people over. No need to reply saying religious people do it too. Two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, if you guys are so much more enlightened you would be above all that.

 

[strummingram]

This is what I don't understand about atheists. For some reason they want to belittle and insult those who believe in God.

I know quite a few atheists and I try to convey to them that they do believe in God. It's not a matter of IF you believe, it's a matter of HOW you believe. Everyone believes in God. They just don't all believe the same way. In fact, I doubt there are two people who believe in the exact same way.

Atheists seem to be averse to basically what organized religions have helped create- a super-human parental figure that exists in some phantom/parallel plane and "watches over us." To them, that is a fairy tale. It's kind of a fairy tale to me, too. It qualifies as mythology just like the ancient Roman and Greek "gods." But, God is very real and absolutely in all of us, all the time and always has been. Spirituality and faith get co-opted by religions and churches. It will all work out, however.

 

[strummingram]

And the book you claim to worship is quite explicit on what awaits anyone who doesn't believe in this nonsense.

Now, to be fair, the opening of the thread was to reveal that the "book" does NOT do that. The religious clubs have created that along the way. People worship their religion a lot more than they realize. God doesn't mind. God doesn't mind that you deny that God exists. I understand why you deny the notion. I understand why religious people worship their religions, and believe they need the religion to reach God. But, I would encourage you to not be so quick to discount spirituality and the existence of more than what you can sense with your 5 senses. There's MUCH more than that.

 

[uncboy10]

OH but you will.