OOTB Carolina Basketball Discussion Thread

[gunslingerdick]

I'll be careful here because we all love Mando.

But he's part of the problem. He can't defend the high ball screen, he's not a rim protector, he can't shoot and we don't have enough shooters to surround him with for him to be effective. Obviously him being on the team saved us from 8-20 again. But the ceiling is limited with him unless we have the exact right personnel around him. And the chances of that happening through the portal for next year is slim. Again, I love Mando. But I think this lengthens the healing process.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'll be careful here because we all love Mando.

But he's part of the problem. He can't defend the high ball screen, he's not a rim protector, he can't shoot and we don't have enough shooters to surround him with for him to be effective. Obviously him being on the team saved us from 8-20 again. But the ceiling is limited with him unless we have the exact right personnel around him. And the chances of that happening through the portal for next year is slim. Again, I love Mando. But I think this lengthens the healing process.

100% accurate

 

[tarheel0910]

Puff was never really going to be a meaningful player. Fill his spot with someone else who is healthy and consistent. There's barely anybody on the team that I would miss. The team that played this year sucked.

I'd like to see RJ come back. And, I guess Bacot. I'm still amazed that they ever made it to the final four and the championship game a year ago.

He would have definitely been meaningful. No question about that.

 

[strummingram]

He would have definitely been meaningful. No question about that.

Meaningful is subjective. I don't think he ever would have been a major, consistent contributor, or starting player that could be relied upon in the way of Brady Manek.

He's shooting was way too inconsistent, and he was injured all the time, and he fouled all the time. I'm not saying that he didn't have a role on the team. But it's not like his loss is going to be impossible to overcome. Brady is an example of a loss that was almost impossible to overcome.

 

[strummingram]

I'll be careful here because we all love Mando.

But he's part of the problem. He can't defend the high ball screen, he's not a rim protector, he can't shoot and we don't have enough shooters to surround him with for him to be effective. Obviously him being on the team saved us from 8-20 again. But the ceiling is limited with him unless we have the exact right personnel around him. And the chances of that happening through the portal for next year is slim. Again, I love Mando. But I think this lengthens the healing process.

Yep, I don't think his returning is going to be a good thing in the long term. I love the guy, and I appreciate everything he's done. But, there's just a peculiar something that just seems to result in a negative rather than a positive, overall. And he's really only doing it cuz of the money. I know he says he loves the University, and I'm sure he does love it. But if it weren't for the money he wouldn't be here at all.

 

[gteeitup]

i'll reserve judgement on the bacot decision until i see what the portal brings...the timberlake kid would be great...also, i'd love some dudes like tennessee, arkansas, and k state have out there that make it rough on people, but are athletic af.

the sec and big 12 look to be light years ahead on the portal and athletes.

eta: ledlum now looks interesting considering the latest losses.

 

[gteeitup]

is nickel now at va tech?

 

[strummingram]

is nickel now at va tech?

That's a good ways from Richmond! Supposedly his gf is preggers and she attends VCU.

 

[gteeitup]

That's a good ways from Richmond! Supposedly his gf is preggers and she attends VCU.

if she's pregnant he might wanna checkout gonzaga.

my kid is probably just effin with me.

 

[tarheel0910]

i'll reserve judgement on the bacot decision until i see what the portal brings...the timberlake kid would be great...also, i'd love some dudes like tennessee, arkansas, and k state have out there that make it rough on people, but are athletic af.

the sec and big 12 look to be light years ahead on the portal and athletes.

eta: ledlum now looks interesting considering the latest losses.

I'm not sure how much we can get out of the portal. From the outside, we look like a shit show. If I'm a top guy with one year left, why would I spend it somewhere that looks like a sinking ship? Our best chance is going to be NIL deals to get these guys here.

And what are the chances we get 2-3 good starters and a couple of solid bench players from the portal?

 

[strummingram]

I'm just wondering how long they give him before he's ultimately replaced.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'm just wondering how long they give him before he's ultimately replaced.

He'll get 4-5 total, so he has at least two more to get us back to UNC level play.

 

[heelmanwilm]

 

[Grayhead]

I'm not sure how much we can get out of the portal. From the outside, we look like a shit show. If I'm a top guy with one year left, why would I spend it somewhere that looks like a sinking ship? Our best chance is going to be NIL deals to get these guys here.

And what are the chances we get 2-3 good starters and a couple of solid bench players from the portal?

Best team money can buy............legally

 

[gteeitup]

I'm not sure how much we can get out of the portal. From the outside, we look like a shit show. If I'm a top guy with one year left, why would I spend it somewhere that looks like a sinking ship? Our best chance is going to be NIL deals to get these guys here.

And what are the chances we get 2-3 good starters and a couple of solid bench players from the portal?

the beauty of it is we don’t know because we haven’t been in this position yet…like i posted somewhere earlier, this is a gigantic off-season for adding and adjusting…all eyes are on hubs.

 

[Grayhead]

Copied from FB. If its remotely true, then it's bad. Can more NIL money be generated?

Something I hadn’t considered but was educated on by a good friend who coaches at a small D2 program.

Transfer players aren’t always looking for “minutes”. They often just don’t fit the path forward, scheme or have maxed out their potential with the current team. But a MAJOR component now is NIL. It’s a job. And these guys are going to go where they can maximize minutes AND earn more money. So it’s not always “does this guy fit” but it’s “can we afford him” in terms of recruiting. Styles made $27k in NIL last year. Nickel made $21k. They aren’t likely to go to a program that is gonna offer them more minutes in exchange for lower pay. They’ll have to find a program that can use them and has the budget to pay for it. Likewise, I see people saying we should go after Kerr Kriisa from Arizona. He made $132k last year and averaged 30 minutes a game. He isn’t likely to come to UNC (a team with 4 guards already) with a reduction in minutes AND take a huge pay cut as well. We don’t have $132k in NIL to give him. We only have $130k budget left for next year and 4 scholarships to fill with it.

That being said, we’re likely gonna get 2 or 3 transfers that are the same quality play as Nickel and Styles but with different specific skillsets (shooting/defense/size) that fits our scheme.

 

[pooponduke]

Copied from FB. If its remotely true, then it's bad. Can more NIL money be generated?

Something I hadn’t considered but was educated on by a good friend who coaches at a small D2 program.

Transfer players aren’t always looking for “minutes”. They often just don’t fit the path forward, scheme or have maxed out their potential with the current team. But a MAJOR component now is NIL. It’s a job. And these guys are going to go where they can maximize minutes AND earn more money. So it’s not always “does this guy fit” but it’s “can we afford him” in terms of recruiting. Styles made $27k in NIL last year. Nickel made $21k. They aren’t likely to go to a program that is gonna offer them more minutes in exchange for lower pay. They’ll have to find a program that can use them and has the budget to pay for it. Likewise, I see people saying we should go after Kerr Kriisa from Arizona. He made $132k last year and averaged 30 minutes a game. He isn’t likely to come to UNC (a team with 4 guards already) with a reduction in minutes AND take a huge pay cut as well. We don’t have $132k in NIL to give him. We only have $130k budget left for next year and 4 scholarships to fill with it.

That being said, we’re likely gonna get 2 or 3 transfers that are the same quality play as Nickel and Styles but with different specific skillsets (shooting/defense/size) that fits our scheme.

Maybe I'm totally in the weeds on NIL, but where is this guy getting his numbers. The rules don't allow schools to pay NIL, so it's not like HD has a line item on the budget for NIL that leaves 130k. Anyone able to explain this?

 

[gteeitup]

Copied from FB. If its remotely true, then it's bad. Can more NIL money be generated?

Something I hadn’t considered but was educated on by a good friend who coaches at a small D2 program.

Transfer players aren’t always looking for “minutes”. They often just don’t fit the path forward, scheme or have maxed out their potential with the current team. But a MAJOR component now is NIL. It’s a job. And these guys are going to go where they can maximize minutes AND earn more money. So it’s not always “does this guy fit” but it’s “can we afford him” in terms of recruiting. Styles made $27k in NIL last year. Nickel made $21k. They aren’t likely to go to a program that is gonna offer them more minutes in exchange for lower pay. They’ll have to find a program that can use them and has the budget to pay for it. Likewise, I see people saying we should go after Kerr Kriisa from Arizona. He made $132k last year and averaged 30 minutes a game. He isn’t likely to come to UNC (a team with 4 guards already) with a reduction in minutes AND take a huge pay cut as well. We don’t have $132k in NIL to give him. We only have $130k budget left for next year and 4 scholarships to fill with it.

That being said, we’re likely gonna get 2 or 3 transfers that are the same quality play as Nickel and Styles but with different specific skillsets (shooting/defense/size) that fits our scheme.

ledlum is an interesting name

 

[Grayhead]

ledlum is an interesting name

Ledlum?

 

[Grayhead]

Maybe I'm totally in the weeds on NIL, but where is this guy getting his numbers. The rules don't allow schools to pay NIL, so it's not like HD has a line item on the budget for NIL that leaves 130k. Anyone able to explain this?

That's just it, how much is the school involved? I have to think he has some idea of NIL limits and what can be "afforded"
Another thing to consider. With how last season shook out, how willing are those sponsors going to be to shell out for another year like the last one? The Natty run gained positive exposure. Last year went in the opposite direction equally in reverse.
I would think those sponsors look for some return in their contributions. I could never shake the feeling all year that some of HD's decisions to allow players like Love to keep playing with a green light was influenced by NIL contributions. It's been a feeling, and now way to verify. But it makes sense.

 

[tarheel0910]

the beauty of it is we don’t know because we haven’t been in this position yet…like i posted somewhere earlier, this is a gigantic off-season for adding and adjusting…all eyes are on hubs.

Beauty is not the word I would use. If Hubert knew what he was doing, we wouldn't be in this position. That would be beauty.

 

[gteeitup]

Ledlum?

sf in the ivy…chris ledlum.

 

[tarheel0910]

That's just it, how much is the school involved? I have to think he has some idea of NIL limits and what can be "afforded"
Another thing to consider. With how last season shook out, how willing are those sponsors going to be to shell out for another year like the last one? The Natty run gained positive exposure. Last year went in the opposite direction equally in reverse.
I would think those sponsors look for some return in their contributions. I could never shake the feeling all year that some of HD's decisions to allow players like Love to keep playing with a green light was influenced by NIL contributions. It's been a feeling, and now way to verify. But it makes sense.

That guy is just making up numbers. There is no budget for the school. The school can't be directly involved in these NIL deals. The budget for players is whatever the businesses are willing to pay. It could be $5 or $5 million.

 

[Grayhead]

That guy is just making up numbers. There is no budget for the school. The school can't be directly involved in these NIL deals. The budget for players is whatever the businesses are willing to pay. It could be $5 or $5 million.

Its about the perception of what coaches can offer. If HD goes in a kids home, and said kid ask, what are you offering, then whats the proper response? I would assume there is negotiation via outside sources. But the coach has to have something in their back pocket. I still think HD was squeezed with Love somehow. No coach in their right mind would allow that.

 

[uncboy10]

If Puff goes somewhere else and stays healthy he’s going to have an impact. He’s obviously had his struggles with staying on the court but I think he’s a gamer. He made some great plays in huge games down the stretch in the tournament last year and I think that’s a good indication of the player he could be.

Whether it’s Puff or somebody else, I’m guessing Hubert will come to regret running at least one of these guys off.

 

[tarheel0910]

Wonder if we're going to have enough players to have a team.

 

[gteeitup]

Wonder if we're going to have enough players to have a team.

we’ll be fine

 

[tarheel0910]

we’ll be fine

 

[toophly1124]

we’ll be fine

100%

 

[heelmanwilm]

Just looking at the elite 8 it’s obvious that a major shift has occurred. I thought NIL and transfer portal were gonna make the rich richer. It’s been the complete opposite. The playing field has been leveled. I would be curious what the avg recruiting class rankings for the past 4 yrs of the elite 8 is. The premium now is on coaches who can motivate and are good with the X’s and O’s more so than recruiting.

 

[gteeitup]

Just looking at the elite 8 it’s obvious that a major shift has occurred. I thought NIL and transfer portal were gonna make the rich richer. It’s been the complete opposite. The playing field has been leveled. I would be curious what the avg recruiting class rankings for the past 4 yrs of the elite 8 is. The premium now is on coaches who can motivate and are good with the X’s and O’s more so than recruiting.

this is why i thought of all the programs that have the money, the alumni base, and the facilities, carolina football might really benefit from this…this has yet to happen, unfortunately…i think mack gets it, he’s just so effin stubborn about changes on the field.

now in basketball you have to evaluate every season singularly instead of looking at growth over a 2-3 year span…i think roy thought of all the people that could understand and maximize this opportunity and still keep it in the family, it was hubs…and you’re spot on, coaching acumen will be noticed immediately.

 

[tarheel0910]

Just looking at the elite 8 it’s obvious that a major shift has occurred. I thought NIL and transfer portal were gonna make the rich richer. It’s been the complete opposite. The playing field has been leveled. I would be curious what the avg recruiting class rankings for the past 4 yrs of the elite 8 is. The premium now is on coaches who can motivate and are good with the X’s and O’s more so than recruiting.

I think it's a little too early to make that determination long term, but I've said before that NIL has a chance to help all schools in major markets.

 

[tarheel0910]

this is why i thought of all the programs that have the money, the alumni base, and the facilities, carolina football might really benefit from this…this has yet to happen, unfortunately…i think mack gets it, he’s just so effin stubborn about changes on the field.

now in basketball you have to evaluate every season singularly instead of looking at growth over a 2-3 year span…i think roy thought of all the people that could understand and maximize this opportunity and still keep it in the family, it was hubs…and you’re spot on, coaching acumen will be noticed immediately.

Wish Roy would have held on a little longer. He would have killed it in NIL. He already convinced most people to stay a year or two longer than most. NIL helps him to hold onto borderline players like Little and Bradley.

 

[Grayhead]

Wish Roy would have held on a little longer. He would have killed it in NIL. He already convinced most people to stay a year or two longer than most. NIL helps him to hold onto borderline players like Little and Bradley.

He would not enjoy turnover and merc for hire mentality. I think he lost his edge in recruiting fighting the "scandal"

 

[tarheel0910]

He would not enjoy turnover and merc for hire mentality. I think he lost his edge in recruiting fighting the "scandal"

What I'm saying is he wouldn't have had that turnover. He was already good at getting people to stay. Mostly because he could figure out a way to get them enough time and show them that he can develop them. Add that to the NIL from being a UNC player and he's easily keeping us as a top 5 team with very little turnover.

 

[gteeitup]

timberlake would be an interesting addition if he’s added…he looks really athletic and can flat shoot it.

some of the clips of him attacking the rim are great.

 

[tarheel0910]

timberlake would be an interesting addition if he’s added…he looks really athletic and can flat shoot it.

some of the clips of him attacking the rim are great.

He's doing it against lower level competition, so I'm not sure how that would translate.

 

[strummingram]

Losing Tyler Nickel was a big blow, IMO. Davis recruited him and he bailed after one season. HD better learn fast. That kid is going to burn-it-up somewhere else. He wasted that recruit this season.

HD is a unique breed of competitive spirit. He had to give it ALL in order to succeed. He doesn't understand when kids don't have the same intensity and passion that he has/had and gave (gives). I don't know that people who are naturally wired like that are the best coaches. Maybe some of them are. A great coach, I think, is the one that can bring out the "Hubert Davis effort" in a lot of kids that don't even realize they have that in them.

 

[Grayhead]

What I'm saying is he wouldn't have had that turnover. He was already good at getting people to stay. Mostly because he could figure out a way to get them enough time and show them that he can develop them. Add that to the NIL from being a UNC player and he's easily keeping us as a top 5 team with very little turnover.

Roy had a way of pissing in their cornflakes at times. Mccants probably would have bolted, as would several other if no penalty was incurred. Maybe if NIL happened sooner, when some of these legacy coaches still coached it wouldn't be so herky jerky as soon as the last whistle is blown each season

 

[tarheel0910]

Roy had a way of pissing in their cornflakes at times. Mccants probably would have bolted, as would several other if no penalty was incurred. Maybe if NIL happened sooner, when some of these legacy coaches still coached it wouldn't be so herky jerky as soon as the last whistle is blown each season

These guys are transferring for two reasons, playing time and development. Roy had a long track record of doing both. Hubert has a short track record of doing neither. Example would be Danny Green. He would have never gotten off the bench for Hubert. Roy made sure to get him time and development.