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OOTB's Political Thread . ..

Right now? I can't think of anyone, but that's basically what happened with republicans this last election. They didn't have anyone who stood out, so Trump was able to get the nomination. Maybe Bloomberg because of name recognition if he runs on the democrat ticket or possibly @ticket2ride04's most wanted lover, Newsom.
i’ll take both those two right now...my fingers are crossed, at least.
Those two would be a formidable ticket. Plus it offers cover for Gavin if he were to lose. It is hard to unseat a sitting President and losing would harm Gavin. Think about Romeny. He should have waited until Obama was out and he most likely would have won it all.
 
Those two would be a formidable ticket. Plus it offers cover for Gavin if he were to lose. It is hard to unseat a sitting President and losing would harm Gavin. Think about Romeny. He should have waited until Obama was out and he most likely would have won it all.

I tend to think they are saving young Kennedy or Tulsi for 2024.
 
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how about congress not addressing trump as the potus or president trump?...they all just say “trump” like it’s an f3 name.

they all talk about that guy like we do...remember when you had to address with respect?...lol, wtf.
 
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Does anyone actually care about Cohn's testimony? I know the hardcore, can't live without bashing Trump hourly people do. Does your everyday normal liberal like @uncboy10, @strummingram and @prlyles really care that much about this?

I just want the facts. There's no point arguing this stuff anymore. What truly concerns me is that a fairly large segments of the country has gotten to the point where they would deny the facts even if there was irrefutable material evidence he is guilty. Then another demographic would accept the facts, but not care because he is instrumental for their agenda, and "screw the libtards." That's terrifying IMO. I at least want to know that my fellow Americans would condemn a traitor even if he supports their politics.

It's hard to know what to think at this point. We know that Russia did meddle with our elections, and then there is the separate question of whether or not trump or his campaign was complicit with that meddling. The reason it's so easy to mess with our elections comes back to the point that we are living in separate universes in terms of what we accept as fact. So it becomes easy to play people against each other. Russian trolls literally set up two protests across the street from each other just to create conflict. It's insane that we are that suggestible as a country.

I don't expect Cohen's testimony to necessarily blow the doors off of this investigation. I'm sure he knows some shit, but the question is how much of it he can prove. But I also think that Trump siding with Putin over our own intelligence agencies already painted a pretty clear picture. Especially when you combine that with the sheer number of indictments and connections to Russia that have already come out of the Mueller investigation. Even if Trump is innocent, it seems like his campaign certainly wasn't.
 
Can you think of a Dem that would stand much of a chance?

The leadership in that party have the charisma of a UK fan.

Bernie Sanders can still pack arenas all around the country. If that doesn't qualify as charismatic then I don't know what that word means. He's technically not DNC leadership, but I see him as the strongest candidate.
 
an everyday normal liberal... I dunno if I qualify
You can keep trying to deny it, but on average you are a person whose opinions and ideals usually fall to the left of the spectrum. Those are know as liberal. You don't seem to freak out over everything Trump, so that makes you normal. At least normal for you.

No, I don't really care what Cohn had to say. Roy Cohn has been dead for a long time now. And, Roy Cohn was a pretty shitty person from cradle to grave, unless you were one of close pals. And, some of his close pals got the AIDS because he kept banging guys even after he knew he was infected and didn't care. Which kinda reinforces what I said about being a shitty person.
Ha, ha?
 
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I tend to think they are saving young Kennedy or Tulsi for 2024.
I agree.

Bernie Sanders can still pack arenas all around the country. If that doesn't qualify as charismatic then I don't know what that word means. He's technically not DNC leadership, but I see him as the strongest candidate.

No thanks.
 
I think he's WAY too radical to win a general election.

He’s not radical at all though. I’ve gotten fed up with this talking point tbh. He’s polled as the most likable and trusted politician in Washington.
 
You can keep trying to deny it, but on average you are a person whose opinions and ideals usually fall to the left of the spectrum. Those are know as liberal. You don't seem to freak out over everything Trump, so that makes you normal. At least normal for you.


Ha, ha?
In contrast to this board? Oh, yeah. But, that isn't a true characterization. It all depends on who else is in the room. Around here, there is a 95% conservative bias, at least 95%.

But, in the company of a great deal of my friends? I'm seen as the more conservative, old southern guy who resists change! Or, I am, at least, the one who tries to counter their perspective. Ha, ha? But, I value that because, to me, it helps me feel balanced.

As far as Michael Cohen? Couldn't care less, really. It won't amount to anything except partisan spinning, would be my guess.
 
Around here, there is a 95% conservative bias, at least 95%.
This has been debunked multiple times. Not sure why it continues to be brought up.

But, in the company of a great deal of my friends? I'm seen as the more conservative, old southern guy who resists change! Or, I am, at least, the one who tries to counter their perspective. Ha, ha? But, I value that because, to me, it helps me feel balanced.
Just because you hang out with people who are on the fringe, doesn't mean you aren't a liberal. It just means you aren't as much of a liberal as they are. I honestly don't understand why you continue to try to fight people calling you liberal. It's not a bad thing. It's who you are, there is nothing wrong with that.
 
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I honestly don't understand why you continue to try to fight people calling you liberal. It's not a bad thing. It's who you are, there is nothing wrong with that.
I'm not fighting what you call me. I don't mean to sound like I am fighting what anyone calls me. I am maintaining that I- to myself- am neither one or the other ALL THE TIME.
 
He’s not radical at all though. I’ve gotten fed up with this talking point tbh

You're right, turning the US into Soviet Russia is run of the mill stuff.

So, I think the truth is somewhat in the middle of these two opinions. Bernie isn't a communist or strictly a socialist (I think @dadika13 wasn't completely serious). He does have ideas that are more socialist in nature and he's not a centrist type of democrat.
 
So, I think the truth is somewhat in the middle of these two opinions. Bernie isn't a communist or strictly a socialist (I think @dadika13 wasn't completely serious). He does have ideas that are more socialist in nature and he's not a centrist type of democrat.

I'm half tongue in cheek and half serious.

His economic ideas are complete lunacy.
 
I must have been absent all of those multiple times.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe you were sick those days. While this board does lean right as a whole, the majority of the posters fall in the middle of the road. Saying it's 95% conservative is not close to being right.

I am maintaining that I- to myself- am neither one or the other ALL THE TIME.
I guess this is the problem. You're under the impression that you have to be one or the other all of the time to be defined as one. That's not really true. @uncboy10 has had some topics where he is more moderate about or maybe even right leaning. I'm pretty sure he would define himself as a liberal though.
 
So, I think the truth is somewhat in the middle of these two opinions. Bernie isn't a communist or strictly a socialist (I think @dadika13 wasn't completely serious). He does have ideas that are more socialist in nature and he's not a centrist type of democrat.

There’s a fairly complex debate to be had here. The definition of socialism is something people rarely agree upon. Since Marx established the framework for socialism and communism, I tend to default towards his definition which revolves around ownership of capital. Bernie Sanders is not advocating for the public to seize the means of production.

Also most philosophers (I think) would agree the Soviet Union was not actually communism because they never properly transitioned through capitalism. They were essentially an agrarian economy that never had any hope of producing enough to sustain a communist revolution. But I digress.

He’s certainly not a centrist Democrat, I agree there. But he’s also not a radical leftist like Slavov Zizek. On the global spectrum, most democrats actually fall sightly right of center on most issues, particularly economics and labor rights. Which makes Bernie look further left than he actually is.

I would argue his ideas are more social Democrat than socialist. Democratic socialist is often used interchangeably with social Democrat. Social safety net and collective “engineering” of a better society with things like investing in education and unionization of labor markets to increase bargaining power for workers.
 
I guess this is the problem. You're under the impression that you have to be one or the other all of the time to be defined as one. That's not really true.
It might be a problem for you, but not me. I think it's a mistake to identify as either, so I don't

@uncboy10 has had some topics where he is more moderate about or maybe even right leaning. I'm pretty sure he would define himself as a liberal though.
That's his choice to identify as whatever he wants.
 
Wants to redistribute wealth evenly. Anti-corporations. Supports a reduction of economic growth if it means more income equality. Praised Cuba.

Am I talking about Khrushchev or Bernie Sanders? Literally zero difference.

Wrong. Bernie Sanders advocates for an economy where income and wealth is more evenly distributed. Income inequality is a marker for bad economic health. Most would agree that is a good goal to have. He has never said everyone should have the same amount of wealth.

If thinking corporations should have to pay taxes and shouldn’t be able to exploit workers and consumers is anti-corporation then sure, he’s anti-corporation. He also advocates against corporate donations into the political system. That doesn’t make him anti-corporation. It makes him anti-corruption.
 
Sorry to hear that. Maybe you were sick those days. While this board does lean right as a whole, the majority of the posters fall in the middle of the road. Saying it's 95% conservative is not close to being right.
What is "close to being right?" As I said before, it depends on who is in the room. I also guess it depends on how you define "middle of the road."
 
I haven't read Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto, entirely. But, I have serious doubts that the Soviet Union, Cuba, or China are examples of Communism, as Marx described it. They all seem like dictatorships to me.
 
Sorry to hear that. Maybe you were sick those days. While this board does lean right as a whole, the majority of the posters fall in the middle of the road. Saying it's 95% conservative is not close to being right.

I think he's right. I'm very middle, I think you're very middle...other than that though I can't really think of anyone else. I don't think it's 95%...but maybe 75%

@strummingram @uncboy10, @prlyles represent the left.

@chickenhunter @gteeitup @Terror Beard @NoleSoup4U @nctransplant @cletusnow @UNC71-00 are the ones I can think of on the right.
 
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I haven't read Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto, entirely. But, I have serious doubts that the Soviet Union, Cuba, or China are examples of Communism, as Marx described it. They all seem like dictatorships to me.

They definitely aren’t. I’m taking Social And Political Philosophy right now and we just finished the Manifesto. Those countries never had communist revolutions (according to Marx) because they never fully transitioned through capitalism. Marx argued that capitalism is necessary to accrue enough capital to sustain society after the transition to communism.

And just to be clear my professor is a Lockean style Libertarian. Even he admits that most people have huge misconceptions of Marx and his arguments. Every one (myself included) seems to have an opinion that is misinformed.
 
I think he's right. I'm very middle, I think you're very middle...other than that though I can't really think of anyone else. I don't think it's 95%...but maybe 75%

@strummingram @uncboy10, @prlyles represent the left.

@chickenhunter @gteeitup @Terror Beard @NoleSoup4U @nctransplant @cletusnow @UNC71-00 are the ones I can think of on the right.
@ticket2ride04 , @Raising Heel , @TarHeelMark , @JuleZ '02 HEEL , @coolwaterunc are pretty close to center. Obviosuly @BillyL was representing the left before he left us. Even though @heelz2345 doesn't post much about politics, I would consider him at least someone who leans left based on the twitter. That's just who I can think of off the top of my head.

ETA: I wouldn't include @NoleSoup4U because I think he's mostly trolling. I find him entertaining though.
 
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No it doesn't. Just because you're in a room with someone who is further to the left/right of you doesn't mean you are all of a sudden a conservative or liberal compared to everyone.
Everyone where??? How would you even begin to acknowledge "everyone?" That is such a vague, abstract perception to me.
 
I haven't read Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto, entirely. But, I have serious doubts that the Soviet Union, Cuba, or China are examples of Communism, as Marx described it. They all seem like dictatorships to me.

Communism, as Marx/Engels described, has never happened in any nation state. Cuba was probably the closest.
 
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The left right paradigm isn’t a great metric for evaluating someone’s politics though. I assume most people here are liberal about social issues in the technical sense. We all want the freedom to do what we want as long as we aren’t hurting someone else. We want others to have those freedoms as well. Sometimes we disagree about how free we are, and who’s freedom needs to be expanded or emphasized, but most people share the basic principle. The left-right spectrum is okay for economics, but disregards this social dimension. It would be interesting to see someone attempt a 3D model for political views. But that’s too complicated to be intuitive.
 
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I think he's right. I'm very middle, I think you're very middle...other than that though I can't really think of anyone else. I don't think it's 95%...but maybe 75%

@strummingram @uncboy10, @prlyles represent the left.

@chickenhunter @gteeitup @Terror Beard @NoleSoup4U @nctransplant @cletusnow @UNC71-00 are the ones I can think of on the right.
You left out @heelmanwilm as "middle"

And @UNC71-00 is right, @tazki is hard right, @GACMAN is hard right, @keysersosay#1 is hard right, @Archer2 is right, @Heelicious is right, @Iammyfathersson is hard right, @bleeduncblue is extreme right. These are people who post on here a bit less now, in political threads, but, they have quite often in the past, and I know they are right-leaning people for sure
 
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