OOTB's Political Thread . ..

[tarheel0910]

Almost all of the people you cited NEVER discuss politics here.

Ok, I guess you can move the goal post and add a qualifier saying they have to discuss it a lot compared to others. And I would argue that pretty much all of them did before the 2016 election. They were pretty much put off by a certain poster and stopped posting about politics or political topics.

 

[nctransplant]

Back to Russia meddling in our elections, We as a nation are hypocritical as hell. How many elections around the world does the US meddle in each year? GMAFB

 

[strummingram]

Ok, I guess you can move the goal post and add a qualifier saying they have to discuss it a lot compared to others. And I would argue that pretty much all of them did before the 2016 election. They were pretty much put off by a certain poster and stopped posting about politics or political topics.

Okay... the board is 80-20 to the right. Happy now?

 

[ticket2ride04]

That’s fine. I wasn’t arguing that anyone should like him, just that a lot of people already do.

Who would you vote for if it was Bernie vs Trump? Genuinely curious.

Trump. And I would hate it. I genuinely like Bernie but think he is misguided. I loathe Trump, but he is a simpleton who has shown he isn't very good at the nuances of being President.

 

[tarheel0910]

The left right paradigm isn’t a great metric for evaluating someone’s politics though. I assume most people here are liberal about social issues in the technical sense. We all want the freedom to do what we want as long as we aren’t hurting someone else. We want others to have those freedoms as well. Sometimes we disagree about how free we are, and who’s freedom needs to be expanded or emphasized, but most people share the basic principle. The left-right spectrum is okay for economics, but disregards this social dimension. It would be interesting to see someone attempt a 3D model for political views. But that’s too complicated to be intuitive.

That's probably a better way to talk about it. I've seen studies before that have said most people are closer to being a libertarian than anything else.

 

[uncboy10]

That's probably a better way to talk about it. I've seen studies before that have said most people are closer to being a libertarian than anything else.

That seems about right, especially for social issues.

 

[strummingram]

Back to Russia meddling in our elections, We as a nation are hypocritical as hell. How many elections around the world does the US meddle in each year? GMAFB

Russian agents (people of government, whoever, whatever) would be fools to not try and engage with and/or influence American elections to better suit them. The "legality" of it is where it gets tricky, of course.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Can you think of a Dem that would stand much of a chance?

The leadership in that party have the charisma of a UK fan.

I think the only person on that side who stands a chance is Schultz, but they're too busy bashing him.

 

[uncboy10]

That's probably a better way to talk about it. I've seen studies before that have said most people are closer to being a libertarian than anything else.

That seems about right, especially for social issues.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Russian agents (people of government, whoever, whatever) would be fools to not try and engage with and/or influence American elections to better suit them. The "legality" of it is where it gets tricky, of course.

Evidently they did try. They bought add space on Facebook.

 

[strummingram]

That's probably a better way to talk about it. I've seen studies before that have said most people are closer to being a libertarian than anything else.

THAT is what I've been called for 20 years or more. I didn't even know what it was for a long time.

 

[uncboy10]

Trump. And I would hate it. I genuinely like Bernie but think he is misguided. I loathe Trump, but he is a simpleton who has shown he isn't very good at the nuances of being President.

I like him too, because he’s one of the few people in Washington that seems to actually want to serve the public.

I’m guessing you think he’s misguided on the economic issues?

 

[tarheel0910]

Back to Russia meddling in our elections, We as a nation are hypocritical as hell. How many elections around the world does the US meddle in each year? GMAFB

Yeah, I've mentioned that before on here. It's funny how some people are surprised that a country would do something like this. We've propped up and helped overturn plenty of dictatorships over the years. We've also been involved with helping people get elected in other countries as well.

 

[nctransplant]

Russian agents (people of government, whoever, whatever) would be fools to not try and engage with and/or influence American elections to better suit them. The "legality" of it is where it gets tricky, of course.

You didn't address how we meddle in elections.

 

[uncboy10]

You didn't address how we meddle in elections.

You’re right that we meddle too. Shouldn’t the goal be ending it? Or at least restricting it to places like Pakistan where we want to make sure they don’t let jihadists have nukes?

 

[nctransplant]

Yeah, I've mentioned that before on here. It's funny how some people are surprised that a country would do something like this. We've propped up and helped overturn plenty of dictatorships over the years. We've also been involved with helping people get elected in other countries as well.

Don't forget our meddling in the Israeli elections a couple years ago.

 

[tarheel0910]

You’re right that we meddle too. Shouldn’t the goal be ending it? Or at least restricting it to places like Pakistan where we want to make sure they don’t let jihadists have nukes?

We should end it for others. As far as we go, we should...

 

[nctransplant]

You’re right that we meddle too. Shouldn’t the goal be ending it? Or at least restricting it to places like Pakistan where we want to make sure they don’t let jihadists have nukes?

My point is I'm sick of the whining about it because we do it to. Do as I say not as I do. It's going to happen so just deal with it. If someone is so weak as to be influenced by a facebook add I'm not sure they need to be voting anyway.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

In contrast to this board? Oh, yeah. But, that isn't a true characterization. It all depends on who else is in the room. Around here, there is a 95% conservative bias, at least 95%.

But, in the company of a great deal of my friends? I'm seen as the more conservative, old southern guy who resists change! Or, I am, at least, the one who tries to counter their perspective. Ha, ha? But, I value that because, to me, it helps me feel balanced.

As far as Michael Cohen? Couldn't care less, really. It won't amount to anything except partisan spinning, would be my guess.

 

[cletusnow]

Communism, as Marx/Engels described, has never happened in any nation state. Cuba was probably the closest.

It can ‘never’ exist in its pure form, because someone always has to be in charge. And I dare say that that someone will never live like a communist/socialist if they are in charge.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

I like him too, because he’s one of the few people in Washington that seems to actually want to serve the public.

I’m guessing you think he’s misguided on the economic issues?

Was he serving the public when he sold his constituents out to Hillary Clinton? Is that why they booed him off the stage? I once thought like you did about the guy, but he turned out to be a bum, just like 99% of politicians.

 

[Heelicious]

Can you think of a Dem that would stand much of a chance?

The leadership in that party have the charisma of a UK fan.

FWIW - right now I believe the three people with the best odds of getting the D nomination - based on name recognition, ability to raise money, ability to check the most identity politics boxes that are important with some in the D base, activists are (in no particular order):
Bernie
Kamala Harris
Joe Biden (if he gets in)
I think Kamala Harris would be my odds-on favorite to get the nomination as of today. She is attractive, may have big appeal to women, and non-white voter blocs, and has been pretty moderate in the past.

Both Bernie and Joe Biden are older white men - nothing wrong with that at all - but that may turn off some in the primaries, looking for a new person to lead the charge, and be able to go head-to-head with Trump, or even be a sympathetic figure (ie- Trump beating up on a woman like Kamala) when DJT wrongly goes after her which of course he would.

Of these three listed, I believe Biden would have the best chance of beating Trump. Just because every year now there are just a very few "purple / swing states" really in play, and a lot of these are places where Biden has a chance to appeal to middle class, working, union voters (voters who abandoned the D party and Hillary, and signed on to DJT's populist message in '16). I think Biden has the best chance of D's in Midwest and rust belt states like OH, PA, WI, IA....ones that cost HRC in '16.... plus Biden could keep states like MN, MI in the D column... that were close in 2016.

I just think the other D candidates don't have enough name recognition, or have some things they have said or done in their past that make them non-viable even in the primary (Warren, Booker, Gillibrand, Klobuchar). They are all polling at below 5% in primary, even close to their home states. I think Beto is sort of a preening "look at me" hipster sort of empty suit....trying too hard to be hip and cool, with little substance.

Bernie sure has a large following, and can raise big money fast. He likely has moderated over the years. But some of the videos and his past comments fairly friendly to Communist, Socialist or dictatorship regimes, may be very hard to live down, or to overcome, especially in those purple states in a general election.

 

[uncboy10]

My point is I'm sick of the whining about it because we do it to. Do as I say not as I do. It's going to happen so just deal with it. If someone is so weak as to be influenced by a facebook add I'm not sure they need to be voting anyway.

Everyone is influenced by social media for the same reason that advertising works. Sure, it's sad that it's so effective, but that doesn't change the fact that it's true.

But you and I aren't meddling in anyone's elections. So why shouldn't we have the right to complain about our government or a foreign government meddling in elections? We have every right to do so IMO.

 

[uncboy10]

Was he serving the public when he sold his constituents out to Hillary Clinton? Is that why they booed him off the stage? I once thought like you did about the guy, but he turned out to be a bum, just like 99% of politicians.

He bit the bullet and tried to throw his support behind the nominee. Lots of republicans did that with trump too. That is expected in party politics. If you are opposed to the other side winning then that's the mature move to prevent the vote from being split. I think it was humble and demonstrated that he isn't in politics for himself. He easily could have ended any chance Hillary had in 2016 as a power play for 2020. Instead, he took the high road. Now he's back, and most people still agree that he got screwed last time.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

He bit the bullet and tried to throw his support behind the nominee. Lots of republicans did that with trump too. That is expected in party politics. If you are opposed to the other side winning then that's the mature move to prevent the vote from being split. I think it was humble and demonstrated that he isn't in politics for himself. He easily could have ended any chance Hillary had in 2016 as a power play for 2020. Instead, he took the high road. Now he's back, and most people still agree that he got screwed last time.

Yeah, he's a status quo politician. There's nothing special about him. He could have kept his honor, like Ron Paul did, but he didn't. He sold them out.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

 

[tarheel0910]

If someone is so weak as to be influenced by a facebook add I'm not sure they need to be voting anyway.

I don't think your average person lets Facebook impact their vote. Almost half of Facebook users are under the age of 35, so I'm guessing a lot of them aren't even voting.

 

[uncboy10]

Yeah, he's a status quo politician. There's nothing special about him. He could have kept his honor, like Ron Paul did, but he didn't. He sold them out.

He's far from status quo. He's been an outsider his entire career. People like you think honor is more important than being pragmatic. I would disagree. Honor is for superficial people that are more concerned with perception than doing what is right. I hate Hillary and I hated seeing him do it. But he did the right thing for the opposition to trump.

 

[Heelicious]

One addendum to my prediction on the D candidate for 2020 above...generally most people don't follow politics or politicians too closely... which is fine.
The biggest factor on who can win in 2020 is likely what the economy looks like in early- to mid-2020. I suppose other factors can come into play such as if another Supreme Court seat comes open in 2020, and that could work to either party's benefit. Or if DJT marches us into some endless boondoggle with boots on ground in Venezuela for example.
I think the D House will move ahead with - and will impeach DJT later this year. I think this will end up backfiring on them like it did on the Rs with Bill Clinton

But absent these other factors, I think the nation's economy and voter's economic outlook index will be the best indicator of who wins in 2020.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

He's far from status quo. He's been an outsider his entire career. People like you think honor is more important than being pragmatic. I would disagree. Honor is for superficial people that are more concerned with perception than doing what is right. I hate Hillary and I hated seeing him do it. But he did the right thing for the opposition to trump.

He's about as much a maverick as John McCain. You can talk the talk all you want, but when you refuse to walk the walk it just shows that you're a poser.

 

[nctransplant]

Everyone is influenced by social media for the same reason that advertising works. Sure, it's sad that it's so effective, but that doesn't change the fact that it's true.

But you and I aren't meddling in anyone's elections. So why shouldn't we have the right to complain about our government or a foreign government meddling in elections? We have every right to do so IMO.

Let's don't just raise hell about others meddling in our own then, raise hell at our own government too.

 

[ticket2ride04]

I like him too, because he’s one of the few people in Washington that seems to actually want to serve the public.

I’m guessing you think he’s misguided on the economic issues?

I disagree a lot with him on the economy. Even if I did agree, he positions are so antithetical to who we are as a Nation. They would never work. Those that love what he proposes would be better served to move to a few different European Nations. FWIW, it works fine for them. Just not here.

 

[uncboy10]

He's about as much a maverick as John McCain. You can talk the talk all you want, but when you refuse to walk the walk it just shows that you're a poser.

He's walked the walk for decades in congress. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about here.

 

[nctransplant]

One addendum to my prediction on the D candidate for 2020 above...generally most people don't follow politics or politicians too closely... which is fine.
The biggest factor on who can win in 2020 is likely what the economy looks like in early- to mid-2020. I suppose other factors can come into play such as if another Supreme Court seat comes open in 2020, and that could work to either party's benefit. Or if DJT marches us into some endless boondoggle with boots on ground in Venezuela for example.
I think the D House will move ahead with - and will impeach DJT later this year. I think this will end up backfiring on them like it did on the Rs with Bill Clinton

But absent these other factors, I think the nation's economy and voter's economic outlook index will be the best indicator of who wins in 2020.

People will vote with their wallets and as of right now Trump til 2024.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

He's walked the walk for decades in congress. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about here.

Sure I don't. He bowed to the mainstream politicians after they jobbed him out of a nomination. No heart, no honor, just another poser.

 

[uncboy10]

Let's don't just raise hell about others meddling in our own then, raise hell at our own government too.

Fair enough. I do think that's also happening though. Just not as loud as the protest of Russian meddling though. That would be expected though, people generally care more about themselves than others.

 

[nctransplant]

He's walked the walk for decades in congress. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about here.

Old videos of him loving on dictators, socialism, and communism coupled with his wife's screw ups will sink him in the general election.

Biden may be the Dems only hope and he's awfully white and pretty damn creepy.

 

[uncboy10]

I disagree a lot with him on the economy. Even if I did agree, he positions are so antithetical to who we are as a Nation. They would never work. Those that love what he proposes would be better served to move to a few different European Nations. FWIW, it works fine for them. Just not here.

I'm not so sure about that. Things like investing in education make the American Dream more accessible for more of the population. And our country was built by union labor, so I don't think his views there are antithetical to who we are. I guess I would need clarification on which policies you mean. Its a big platform, there's a lot to pick through.

 

[uncboy10]

Old videos of him loving on dictators, socialism, and communism coupled with his wife's screw ups will sink him in the general election.

But apparently we now live in a country where saying stupid shit actually increases your odds of being elected President.

 

[nctransplant]

But apparently we now live in a country where saying stupid shit actually increases your odds of being elected President.

Not the shit he is seen spouting.
Trump got busted talking about puzzy, everyone loves the kitty.