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OOTB's Political Thread . ..

Okay, I can agree there. Prejudice between two different races is often called racism, however. That's unfortunate, but I guess the abundance of racism that has been in the culture has resulted in that occasional misnomer.
I think a big problem is that people don't understand the difference between the two. When you result to calling someone a racist because they may have a prejudice it hurts the conversation. I know plenty of people who would like to discuss race relations in a thoughtful way, but they don't because they fear they will be labeled a racist.
 
I'm asking you for an example of why you would say that I'm self-unaware. I'm not asking you to explain the concept to me.



I’m not insulting you because I’m being defensive. I’m insulting you because you argue like a fukking idiot.

We’ve already established the fact that they controlled for quality of legal counsel. It’s right there in the quote I gave you. That should’ve answered your “question” but you’ve already reverted back to pretending like they ignored the quality of counsel.

There’s no point in anyone debating anything with you. You are completely possessed by your ideology and will never change your mind about anything. You get presented with evidence, and immediately start looking for how you can possibly dismiss it. That is neither objective nor is it intelligent.
 
I think a big problem is that people don't understand the difference between the two. When you result to calling someone a racist because they may have a prejudice it hurts the conversation. I know plenty of people who would like to discuss race relations in a thoughtful way, but they don't because they fear they will be labeled a racist.
I think that's a testament to how much damage was done from direct racism. But, eventually it will be corrected.
 
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I’m not insulting you because I’m being defensive. I’m insulting you because you argue like a fukking idiot.

We’ve already established the fact that they controlled for quality of legal counsel. It’s right there in the quote I gave you. That should’ve answered your “question” but you’ve already reverted back to pretending like they ignored the quality of counsel.

There’s no point in anyone debating anything with you. You are completely possessed by your ideology and will never change your mind about anything. You get presented with evidence, and immediately start looking for how you can possibly dismiss it. That is neither objective nor is it intelligent.

Oh yeah? Did they interview all public and private defenders? How about their records? Did they log all of that too?
 
This is for you "peer-review can do nothing wrong" people.



For those who don't or won't watch it. Three professors pranked peer-reviewed academic journals, and were so effective that some of the journals actually asked them to peer-review other articles/papers for them.
 
All I'm doing is asking you two to explain yourselves. That's it. It's a pretty rudimentary part of the process when you accuse someone of something. I'm not sure why you guys are so discombobulated right now.
Are you asking me to explain myself? I'm not sure because I haven't accused you of anything. You have accused me of something, so maybe you're talking about yourself. If so, I don't think you need to explain yourself.
 
Are you asking me to explain myself? I'm not sure because I haven't accused you of anything. You have accused me of something, so maybe you're talking about yourself. If so, I don't think you need to explain yourself.

You realize that we've already been over this, and are not just arguing in circles, right? I'm guessing this is due to you wanting to avoid having to explain yourself, but I'll bite one more time since I'm having a blast right now. I'm literally LOLing during this exchange.

So, here is the question (once again!). What was the point of the following post?

"Yeah, but it doesn't take into account what the weather was that day and what kind of car the judge drives. This makes your source completely invalid."
 
You realize that we've already been over this, and are not just arguing in circles, right? I'm guessing this is due to you wanting to avoid having to explain yourself, but I'll bite one more time since I'm having a blast right now. I'm literally LOLing during this exchange.

So, here is the question (once again!). What was the point of the following post?

"Yeah, but it doesn't take into account what the weather was that day and what kind of car the judge drives. This makes your source completely invalid."
I was just saying @uncboy10's source was invalid because it didn't take into account the weather. When you don't take into account certain things like weather, then it impacts the outcome and can be inaccurate. I'm not sure why you are taking this so personally. Surely you don't think I was directing anything at you do you?
 
How long does this acknowledgment need to go on? 100 more years? 500 more years? Forever?

Also, do people that live in areas that were once under Roman Empire rule need to acknowledge the atrocities of the Roman Empire? Do they acknowledge those atrocities? What about areas that were once under Genghis Khan's Mongol rule? Do they also need to acknowledge the atrocities of their past? Also, since Americans were really just settlers from Euro countries, shouldn't it really be those countries that need to acknowledge these inequalities? And why stop there? Could one argue that really, the first white man to walk the planet is the genesis of these inequalities?

Lastly, I'll repeat here what I said in regards to the gay pride public celebrations. People forcing us to recognize these things and discuss them (ad nauseum) are doing more harm than good. Because the more present these discussions are, the more resistance is created. That's a fact. So my suggestion is - the way you're describing it isn't working. What would hurt to try it my way?

Call it "The Pittsburgh Steeler fan" syndrome.
 
I was just saying @uncboy10's source was invalid because it didn't take into account the weather. When you don't take into account certain things like weather, then it impacts the outcome and can be inaccurate. I'm not sure why you are taking this so personally. Surely you don't think I was directing anything at you do you?

Uh-huh...guess what?

iu
 
How long does this acknowledgment need to go on? 100 more years? 500 more years? Forever?
As long as you keep asking "How long?"... it will continue. Asking what amounts to "How long before we don't have to acknowledge the mistakes of our past?" is precisely why it will continue to be necessary to remember them.

Also, do people that live in areas that were once under Roman Empire rule need to acknowledge the atrocities of the Roman Empire? Do they acknowledge those atrocities? What about areas that were once under Genghis Khan's Mongol rule? Do they also need to acknowledge the atrocities of their past? Also, since Americans were really just settlers from Euro countries, shouldn't it really be those countries that need to acknowledge these inequalities? And why stop there? Could one argue that really, the first white man to walk the planet is the genesis of these inequalities?
This is just embellished horseshit, and you complaining about having to acknowledge the crimes of the past.

Lastly, I'll repeat here what I said in regards to the gay pride public celebrations. People forcing us to recognize these things and discuss them (ad nauseum) are doing more harm than good.
Cat Daddy, there is NO ONE "forcing you" to recognize and/or discuss anything. You jumped on here by your own volition to remind us all how homosexuals don't bother you, and then add more commentary about how them not bothering you is actually really bothering you.

So my suggestion is - the way you're describing it isn't working. What would hurt to try it my way?
I didn't know that I was "describing a way." But, I will say that I believe it is working. There are advancements. Less lynchings nowadays. No more segregated facilities. There is a lot more tolerance and even normalizing of lifestyles and racial differences now than there were 100 years ago. It appears to be moving in the right direction. That is progress that I can handle. If you'd stop insisting that we stop recognizing the past and factoring it into our present and future, we might get further, faster.
 
As long as you keep asking "How long?"... it will continue. Asking what amounts to "How long before we don't have to acknowledge the mistakes of our past?" is precisely why it will continue to be necessary to remember them.


This is just embellished horseshit, and you complaining about having to acknowledge the crimes of the past.


Cat Daddy, there is NO ONE "forcing you" to recognize and/or discuss anything. You jumped on here by your own volition to remind us all how homosexuals don't bother you, and then add more commentary about how them not bothering you is actually really bothering you.


I didn't know that I was "describing a way." But, I will say that I believe it is working. There are advancements. Less lynchings nowadays. No more segregated facilities. There is a lot more tolerance and even normalizing of lifestyles and racial differences now than there were 100 years ago. It appears to be moving in the right direction. That is progress that I can handle. If you'd stop insisting that we stop recognizing the past and factoring it into our present and future, we might get further, faster.

What kind of friggen answer is that? LOL!
 
What kind of friggen answer is that? LOL!
You are so starved for attention that you answer for other people. I feel sorry for you that you've been kicked-off so many other forums that THIS is all you have left. Hey... there's another example of you're unaware of your own self.
 
Is this just your opinion on this or is this some agreed upon thought that many share. I mean, would anyone else that I asked that same question to answer it the same way. Yeah, yeah, I know you don’t know what others think but I’m asking if you think others would answer that question the same way.
It is what I have determined based on the many summations of historians, writers, and other academics. There's no "finish line" for when we stop taking into consideration the mistakes of our past. I would certainly hope that I'm not alone with that "opinion."
 
It is what I have determined based on the many summations of historians, writers, and other academics. There's no "finish line" for when we stop taking into consideration the mistakes of our past. I would certainly hope that I'm not alone with that "opinion."

Of course you’re not alone. Anyone that thinks we’ve made up for nearly 200 years of disenfranchisement, is pretty damn ignorant. People like Tim wise do a great job of describing how not being able to own land, vote or generally participate in the public sphere can add up over time. The disadvantages compounded, generation after generation. Meanwhile we still have black neighborhoods getting gentrified... Black folks are on average still disadvantaged in countless ways. Anyone who thinks this is behind us is just grossly ignorant. Generally these are regressive types that don’t want to hear complaints from people that are different than them. The sentiments seems to be “just shut up and act the way I want you to act.” It’s gross.
 
Translation: “you actually bring up a good point that has stumped me. For once, I’m not going to act like a douchebag know-it-all. I have no rational rebuttal to the points you brought up so I’m just going to repeat the same tired lines I say over and over and hope no one calls my dumbass out on it.”
What you tried to conjure-up is irrelevant to our discussion. I don't know if Italians have any feelings about the travesties of the ROman Empire. We're talking about the American Society. Our past has some very embarrassing, and long-lasting social tragedies. Do you think that present-day Germans are not vigilant to not repeat, and feel vicariously culpable regarding their Nazi ancestors? "How much longer do we have to keep answering for murdering the Jews?" That's a perpetual sentence. So is America's. You're never absolved from anything you've done. It's always there. Good or bad, it's a part of who you are.


Of course there’s no one forcing me. No shit. You have a bad habit of telling people shit they already know.
You claimed you were being forced. I reminded you that you weren't.


I don’t have a problem with you being gay. I have a problem with you acting like you have a cross to bear because you’re gay. Be gay. Be confident and comfortable as a gay person. What others think of you shouldn’t matter and I’m the type of person that doesn’t like folks with a chip on their shoulder. In other words, I’m going to support the gay guy who doesn’t tell me he’s gay a lot more than I’m going to support the person that feels the need to tell me.
That sure as hell sounds like the way they go about "being gay" is bothering you. People aren't going to always do things the way you want them to. Maybe you'll support the serial killer who doesn't tell you he/or she is a serial killer. See how dumb that sounds? That's because it's more proof that them being gay is bothering you. You're going to be less likely to be supportive if they keep it to themselves? Gotcha... that's a grand way to do it.

Sure. There are less lynchings than there were 150 years ago. But are there less lynchings than 10years ago before we all decided to make racial discussion the most important thing in the world?

There’s less tolerance today for people of different races than there was 20 years ago. For some reason, you refuse to acknowledge that. I guess you feel you wouldn’t get the SJW points you feel you so deserve.



If you’d stop forcing it down our throats and making people acknowledge it, we might get further, faster. That’s what I’m talking about. There are many people who are digging their heels in because they’re sick of it. Trump won the Presidential election because of this very thing. The most progress that we had shown in this regard was in the 80s and 90s. Racial harmony was at its peak. There was also very little discussion of it during those years. Coincidence? Maybe. But it’s worth looking into.

See... this is why it's pointless with you. You actually believe that "race relations were great in the 90's." You live in a different reality, man. Some of the worst, if not THE WORST, race riots occurred in the 90's. The friggin' OJ verdict was to prevent more riots because of the previous riots when cops beat up Rodney King and LA burned!

Quit paying attention and no one will force anything on you. You can do that... you've been doing it, apparently, to have the perception you have about the entire subject.
 
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Of course you’re not alone. Anyone that thinks we’ve made up for nearly 200 years of disenfranchisement, is pretty damn ignorant. People like Tim wise do a great job of describing how not being able to own land, vote or generally participate in the public sphere can add up over time. The disadvantages compounded, generation after generation. Meanwhile we still have black neighborhoods getting gentrified... Black folks are on average still disadvantaged in countless ways. Anyone who thinks this is behind us is just grossly ignorant. Generally these are regressive types that don’t want to hear complaints from people that are different than them. The sentiments seems to be “just shut up and act the way I want you to act.” It’s gross.
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Of course you’re not alone. Anyone that thinks we’ve made up for nearly 200 years of disenfranchisement, is pretty damn ignorant. People like Tim wise do a great job of describing how not being able to own land, vote or generally participate in the public sphere can add up over time. The disadvantages compounded, generation after generation. Meanwhile we still have black neighborhoods getting gentrified... Black folks are on average still disadvantaged in countless ways. Anyone who thinks this is behind us is just grossly ignorant. Generally these are regressive types that don’t want to hear complaints from people that are different than them. The sentiments seems to be “just shut up and act the way I want you to act.” It’s gross.
There you go... forcing it down our throats! Dammit!
 
There you go... forcing it down our throats! Dammit!

Lol. I’m such an antagonist. How dare we mention history to right wingers that would rather pretend it never happened.

This is why so many of them love trump. They won’t say it, but the whole MAGA thing really comes back to many of them wanting to go back to a society where gay people and minorities were being put in their place. It’s a not so subtle dog whistle. Your point about the 90’s was spot on. They loved the nineties because they were watching black folks get locked up and beaten by cops. That’s their ideal of what race relations should look like.
 
Lol. I’m such an antagonist. How dare we mention history to right wingers that would rather pretend it never happened.

This is why so many of them love trump. They won’t say it, but the whole MAGA thing really comes back to many of them wanting to go back to a society where gay people and minorities were being put in their place. It’s a not so subtle dog whistle. Your point about the 90’s was spot on. They loved the nineties because they were watching black folks get locked up and beaten by cops. That’s their ideal of what race relations should look like.
I dunno if the way you put it is exactly true for the people here. I doubt (hope) that people here weren't enjoying seeing people get locked-up and beaten by cops.

But, this attitude of "I'll be supportive as long as they act like I think they should", or "keep it to themselves" is just a crock of shit... to me.

And, longing for the old days when blacks knew their place and white people could tell niggger jokes whenever they pleased, and not feel bad about it, is just tons of fun, I'm sure.

Personally, I don't believe Donald Trump is a racist in the same way as old, southern white racists are/were. He's just an asshole who gets off on being an asshole. So, he has that in common with them. But, I don't think he's a person who instinctively believes blacks are inferior to whites. But, people who do have hitched their wagon to him, and he'll gladly reward them with whatever he thinks they need to hear to keep them showing up at his rallies.
 
I dunno if the way you put it is exactly true for the people here. I doubt (hope) that people here weren't enjoying seeing people get locked-up and beaten by cops.

But, this attitude of "I'll be supportive as long as they act like I think they should", or "keep it to themselves" is just a crock of shit... to me.

And, longing for the old days when blacks knew their place and white people could tell niggger jokes whenever they pleased, and not feel bad about it, is just tons of fun, I'm sure.

Personally, I don't believe Donald Trump is a racist in the same way as old, southern white racists are/were. He's just an asshole who gets off on being an asshole. So, he has that in common with them. But, I don't think he's a person who instinctively believes blacks are inferior to whites. But, people who do have hitched their wagon to him, and he'll gladly reward them with whatever he thinks they need to hear to keep them showing up at his rallies.

He’s playing his base and a significant portion of his base glorify the old days. Either their ignorant about what things were really like, or they know what it was like and want to go backwards anyways. These are the same people who idolize Reagan as some kind of moral exemplar. Which tells you a lot about them.

Anyone who thinks it’s funny when people talk about America’s history of disenfranchising black folks is probably not a super great person...

You’re right though. The real problem is the “act how I want you to act and you can have my support” crowd. But of course that support is also conditional on not addressing any of the systemic problems in society. Basically they’re saying “I say things are fine, so take it with a smilie, and STFU.”

They lost the culture war and they’re still mad about it. This country moves further from their regressive religious ideals every single day. And we’re far better off for it. We probably shouldn’t be taking moral/ethical advice from people who get their morals from a Stone Age fairy tale.
 
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