OOTB's Political Thread . ..
- Thread starter BillyL
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That was a perfect chance to be resilient and show some resolve. He publicly- on camera with Democratic toadies sitting next to him- that HE would be accountable for and take all the credit for the shutdown.
Now, he blames the Democrats. Such a beta, politician-style move. Just like all the rest.
I don't think he will be able to bullshit around the wall and no, he didn't lie about being responsible for shutdown.
Trump's "cult" never expected Mexico to pay. Everyone with half a brain knew he was talking shit when he made that comment.
He has you poor people on a string.
He was definitely talking shit. I knew he wasn't going to get Mexico to pay for a wall.
he has me on a string? I didn't vote for him... I was never issued a string.
How often do you poor people run around going "Trump lies! Trump cheats! Trump steals!" ? The answer is daily. Yet the Trump train rolls right along.
Choo Choo
And I can go ahead and let you in on how Trump is going to claim that Mexico did in fact pay for the wall.
"By renegotiating that horrible trade agreement known as NAFTA, my new beautiful, glorious trade package saved the US tens of billions of dollars that otherwise would have gone south of the border. Some of that money will be used to build this wall and I would like to thank Mexico for paying for it."
"By renegotiating that horrible trade agreement known as NAFTA, my new beautiful, glorious trade package saved the US tens of billions of dollars that otherwise would have gone south of the border. Some of that money will be used to build this wall and I would like to thank Mexico for paying for it."
His cult or personality (and cult) is strong. It got his vapid dumbass elected president. So, whatever train that exists will continue to to chug as long as there are ENOUGH people who will believe and support his bullshit.
You would completely stop supporting Trump if the government resumes and no "wall" is being built?
This shutdown will cost me anywhere from $25k-$50k in monthly revenue. Here’s hoping it doesn’t drag out.
I didn't think you would stop supporting him. I was asking, so you would say it publicly, here. You claimed earlier that
This wall NOT being built will have no lasting impact on Trump's base. They will support him no matter what happens. As I've said, they've attached their entire identities to him.
And, on the slightest chance that they do abandon him? Then his appeal was more shallow than I imagined. Ann Coulter will even come back around.
I actually would still support him because I couldn't care less about the wall being built and I think his stance on illegal immigration is not good.
You assume way too much when trying to make a point.
I only assume that you will continue to support him. And, I assume his base will continue to support him in spite of no wall being built. The point is clear; they have attached their social and political identity to Donald Trump. There's no one else to support. Abandoning him would be like abandoning themselves.
Our insane wasteful, irresponsible, obscene government spending of other people's (taxpayers) money (and printing money) - scares me a lot - a day of reckoning / doom seems not too far on the horizon.
While Trump and both parties in Congress, and several parties are responsible for this - I do think Trump's policies at least try to grow economy to curtail some of the spending issue via real economic growth, compared to what we had under Obama or would've had under HRC.
A biggest issue for for me re: Trump vs. HRC is who would be put on federal courts including Supreme court, and Trump's picks; their stance on stare decisis, Constitution/law constructionism (vs. living breathing Constitution, based on how public "feels" or polls)...
..and these courts support for ALL human life at any stage (I hope) - as stated as inalienable rights in Declaration of Independence - and ALL individual liberties, against the majority (aka mobs, masses, hordes)
None of this has anything to do with the wall. But I think our current immigration policy, and no wall - DO lead to lower overall wage rates, higher unemployment in US for minority citizens (African American males, for example) and higher rates of drug trafficking and crime, especially in border states and sanctuary cities. If Trump had his way he'd build the wall, and do away with sanctuary cities. Who is against those steps?
While Trump and both parties in Congress, and several parties are responsible for this - I do think Trump's policies at least try to grow economy to curtail some of the spending issue via real economic growth, compared to what we had under Obama or would've had under HRC.
A biggest issue for for me re: Trump vs. HRC is who would be put on federal courts including Supreme court, and Trump's picks; their stance on stare decisis, Constitution/law constructionism (vs. living breathing Constitution, based on how public "feels" or polls)...
..and these courts support for ALL human life at any stage (I hope) - as stated as inalienable rights in Declaration of Independence - and ALL individual liberties, against the majority (aka mobs, masses, hordes)
None of this has anything to do with the wall. But I think our current immigration policy, and no wall - DO lead to lower overall wage rates, higher unemployment in US for minority citizens (African American males, for example) and higher rates of drug trafficking and crime, especially in border states and sanctuary cities. If Trump had his way he'd build the wall, and do away with sanctuary cities. Who is against those steps?
The Wall rhetoric is silly. A wall won't actually help much, if at all. Way more people come in illegally by overstaying their Visas. And like it or not, we have an economy that is hugely dependent on immigrant labor from Mexico and Central America. The construction industry has suffered for years because despite what you are being told, we have done a really good job for many years of stopping people at the border and making it harder and harder for businesses to hire illegals.
We have a large contract with the DEA. While the government is shut down, we cannot bill them. Unlike federal employees, we cannot get back pay. That will be money I never see. Luckily, we don't contract that much with the government, but others do. I hope it re-opens soon.
I only assume that you will continue to support him. And, I assume his base will continue to support him in spite of no wall being built. The point is clear; they have attached their social and political identity to Donald Trump. There's no one else to support. Abandoning him would be like abandoning themselves.
On this we disagree. I think a large majority of his base loses interest in him if he doesn’t get a wall done.
Ahh, subsidies. That's what I figured. Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, so I don't really care.
Okay no trolling or combativeness intended here. I genuinely want to know how trump supporters feel about the fact that we as taxpayers are being forced to pay for the wall when trump’s fundamental cornerstone focal point of his campaign was that mexico would be paying for it? Is this not breaking the promise he centered his campaign around?
Btw walls are like padlocks. They only work to keep honest people out.
Okay that last part is trolling
Btw walls are like padlocks. They only work to keep honest people out.
Okay that last part is trolling
What? Subsidies? LOL, no. We are the architect for the DEA who getting ready to undergo a renovation for its HQ in Alexandria. All non-essential work has been stopped.
We have done work for the DOJ and Secret Service in the past during a Shutdown. It sucks bigly.
Hardcore Trumpers believed him but don't care that he is pivoting. They believe we will get the money back via NAFTA being re-worked and Entitlement savings.
People like @UNC71-00 never took him literally and didn't give a shit about the wall.
I wouldn't mind a wall if it would actually work. But it doesn't really stop immigrants and it certainly doesn't address the real problems around immigration.
What @ticket2ride04 said.
I have given up caring how tax dollars are spent, what the deficit is, entitlements and all the rest of it. None of it makes any difference at this point. I only worry now about laws which directly affect me.
For instance- Trump deporting all the immigrants would directly affect me. So I want him to get some sort of work visa in place for people who are here illegally but who haven't broken any laws. And the best way I think for this to happen would be an agreement between Congress and Trump which would probably involve a wall in exchange for some sort of amnesty.
I'm also all for tax cuts and I think Trump is the most likely person to get this done.
I'm also for getting out of foreign conflicts that don't directly affect us and Trump has done and continues to do this.
I'm also for more SC justices like Gorsuch- again Trump.
I would certainly be more than willing to vote for someone else if I feel they can deliver more than Trump has. The only person who I think could do so would be Rand Paul, but I might be getting suckered here.
You know anyone who would do more for me than Trump?
Consumption tax is the most regressive tax there is. I like Dick's suggestion about being able to direct my tax dollars to where I deem they would best be spent.
Dems agree to $100B for border wall, security, man power, tech, etc.
Pubs agree to clean path to citizenship for those who have been here and producing. Streamline immigration in general.
We need to admit we are addicted to cheap labor. We also need to consider that welfare doesn't cost us all that much per paycheck and keeps people inside their goverment housing to trailer and not committing crimes.
As for a politician who can do more, Paul maybe. Bloomberg intrigues me. Newsome is pro-business. We need someone who can take on entitlement reform and clean up our budgets. Trump won't be that guy. I do hope he manages a $2T Infrastructure bill. We have no way to pay for it, but we desperately need it and it will spur all kinds of growth.
Certain basic items would have to be exempt, but it would drive a lot more revenue.
It's still kind of subsidies, dude, although at least you're doing work for the government. It isn't like you're Tesla or anything. If I were dictator for life, I would axe the DEA regardless, but I guess that is another point for another time.
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