OOTB's Political Thread . ..
- Thread starter BillyL
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No bid contracts and stuff like that. The government is rarely efficient with taxpayer money.
If you want to talk about it from a fiscal standpoint, the wall would save money long term. For those of you who don't think a wall doesn't work, Israel just called.
All that being said, I'm indiferent on a wall. I think we should just force everyone to use the Real ID and that would solve all of this. Everyone who came across and got a fake driver's license or SS# would be SoL when it came to working or receiving subsidies. They would leave soon enough.
Why do you seem to think it was a no-bid contract?
FWIW, we did compete and win all of our government work. If they just handed out government to any asshole, there would be a lot more people making money. These contracts are insanely competitive. Not only that, but the compliance and oversight is a real financial burden.
To the efficiency point, yes and no. They are usually BPA, which saves them a lot of money. On the flip side, bureaucratic costs tend to pile up and projects usually bloat. But that is true of most large private firms. There is significant waste in public and private when you get to be really big.
Of course it would save money long-term. The money saved from social programs would eventually overtake the cost of the wall. How many years would it take to make that money back? I don't know for sure. I just know that at some point the wall would become economically feasible.
And Israel's situation is exactly like ours. We're trying to keep illegal people from coming over here and doing harm to our country and its citizens. Now, are Israel's issues more extreme? Absolutely.
The fact that you have to explain this speaks volumes.
That is assuming a few things:
1. The wall would actually work. It wouldn't. Even if it stopped all illegal border crossings it would not matter. Far more people come in illegally by overstaying their Visas.
2. You neglect the economic impact of not having a bunch of hispanics to do the work that Americans can't and won't do.
As for Israel. They have far fewer people trying to cross a much shorter border. It is beyond apples and oranges.
The fact that you can't understand that this is essentially a long-term investment speaks volumes.
1) It isn't the only factor needed, however it would still save money. You can always control how many visas you hand out, it's much harder to control illegal border crossings.
2) The impact would be more jobs, higher wages, and less impact on the social safety net.
3) So, your argument is that China could do it centuries ago, but we can't do it in this day and age? Gotcha.
I find it fascinating to watch people debate the merits/drawbacks of the wall. I've told you guys before that I'm no financial wiz and I read what you post with a genuine interest in the feasibility of it actually getting done. I never really believed that Mexico would actually pay for it, but I do like the suggestion someone made to use "El Chapo's" seized billions to help fund it.
I apologize for thinking that you knew what long-term investments were. I hope you can forgive me.
1) I have no idea if it would save money. I do think a wall would reduce illegal border crossings, but certainly not eliminate them. I have no idea how large of a reduction it would be.
2) We don't have enough people to fill jobs now in the sectors that are dominated by illegals. So we don't need more jobs, we need people to fill them. And higher wages would equal higher prices which would equal inflation. No thanks.
3) Pretty sure China didn't have an illegal immigration problem on a scale anywhere near ours or even Israel's. So this is just a silly statement.
1) Any reduction, over a long enough period of time, would eventually pay for the wall. How many years would it take? I couldn't tell you.
2) People would fill those jobs if the pay was high enough. Would there be inflation? Sure. However, this would put inflation in everyone's face and would be more likely to cause a revolution if government didn't curb it's spending. I'm sure there would be some growing pains while transferring, but we did it for 200 years. I have no doubt this issue could be fixed in time.
3) China didn't have an illegal immigration problem, they had an invasion problem. The reason I pointed out the wall was because he was arguing that the implementation would be too arduous, which obviously wasn't the case when China performed the task centuries ago.
All this can be summed up in one sentence,. The wall is a really stupid idea and a waste of taxpayer's money
If there is enough financial incentive to work, very few would want to be on welfare. A lot of welfare is people working 20 hours a week to get the benefits because the benefits are better than the pay. However, if that were to change...
It is not a solution, it is a stupid idea, that won't work and is a waste of taxpayer money. Everybody in the country that has any sense at all says it is a waste. How can you call it a solution, either good or bad, it is not a solution, period.
Of course it's a solution. We're arguing whether it's a good solution or a bad solution.
Completely agree in theory. However that genie is out of the bottle and he ain’t never going back in.
Yes. Getting toothpaste back in the tube is tough. It’s cheaper and safer for pay them to stay at home. Sad but true. Automation coming makes this even trickier.
1). I don’t care one way or the other about the wall. In fact, I tepidly support it because it pisses off the libs.
2). I only have about 40 years left on this earth so I’m not willing to give you any time. Sorry.
3). Trying to compare Trumps wall with the GWOC is just foolish. But if you want to die on that hill, knock yourself out.
It’s not just the inflation we have to worry about, which would be insane, but the quality. Guys like @UNC71-00 and I work in the construction industry. I’d take two 45 year old immigrants over 10 college educated millennials to do just about any physical job.
People have no idea how integral immigrant labor is to our economy
Also, your 200 year statement is stupid. We did it with slave labor and then Irish, German, Jewish, and Italian immigrants.
An excellent point. The Messicans work hard and their quality of work is outstanding. They don’t bitch, they don’t call in sick and they are happy to work on Saturdays. They actually take pride in their work.
Can you imagine Chadwick or Benjamin trying to hang drywall?
DeAndre or LeBron up on a roof?
Christian or Aiden laying tile?
A house would take 12 years to build and cost $1,900 p/sf.
I don't know how we ever built anything before Mexicans. Did the Romans import Mexicans to build the Colosseum?
You’re not helping your argument. All great civilizations built their infrastructure on slave labor.
The Roman Empire fell apart when they became too fat and happy, among other things.
The US has been built on Slave and immigration labor.
Do you even history, bro?
I get it bc black people are scared of heights right??
So, someone who has a stake in the game isn't going to work harder than someone who doesn't? That kind of flies in the face of common day management, doesn't it?
Who’s gonna work harder?
The guy who’s been handed everything and livees for his smartphone
Or
The guy escaping violence and poverty in order to feed his family?
You’re right. Should have made them lifeguards
That isn't who we're talking about here. Do you know who you sound like? You sound like some rich white guy who wants to take advantage of minorities.
Edit: Maybe you can hire the Pinkerton Detective Agency to keep them in line as well.
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