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Quick stuff (FSU game 2)...

gary-7

gary-7

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...and we survived utter mayhem.

And I'm gonna start right there.
Moment: In the second half, on the play #5 (the mouthy SOB who should've been T'd up in the first half) smacked his teammate in the face, on the replay both of those guys had firm holds on Mando (who had position for a rebound). THAT was FSU's story from the tip --- grab, hold, bump, hack and try to numb the incompetent ref crew, and it worked. That was THE reason Mando only got 4 rebounds all day, and the mayhem kept them in the game --- that and being unconscious from 3 early on.

Let's get to us:
- Ingram had another big board night (which we needed) with 17 to make up for the Mando-mugging, but did not do well driving and/or finishing vs their grabs.

- I was disappointed we only ran one possession of 44, especially after what it did to them last time. With that said, our rotations were once again tight. Big moment: Late game after they had cut it to 2 then after we get it to 4, they try to iso EC and he uses his feet to force to help, and Ingram stepped in for the shot-block --- just the way you teach it in 4-man shell.

- Really disappointing day from our bench, who allowed themselves to get caught up in FSU's tactics. JWash was being knocked around by their physicality but I really thought Withers would be valuable today. However, he reverted to letting himself get sped up. High came in to mix it up but caught with his hands down on the perimeter for 3s. And Seth --- son, you can jump outta the gym --- stop air-hanging and DUNK the damn ball!

- We ultimately got our winning margin in spurts by using tempo and selectively breaking down their D with the same action we used against Wake. As for the latter, this time we knew they couldn't keep Cadeau from getting to the rim. However, when they started holding our Bigs and laid back to protect the rim (and got away with fouls) that made it more difficult. Thus, it was a good variation late to scheme that big floater for RJ.

- with that said, I didn't like killing our tempo too soon down the stretch. With all the swallowed whistles that played into FSU's hands. And our ball-movement also ground to a halt and we seemed to playing not to lose a bit.

- Speaking of RJ, FSU made an extra effort to smother him and he had trouble handling the rock vs their reaches, but still came up with 24 (hard-earned) pts.

- Ultimately the difference-maker today was #2 (despite getting HOSED by Cassell on two great defensive plays). Any time he was out, things got very sketchy. Despite getting (once again) shorted a board and a dime, EC finished with 16 pts and 6 Assists, and a +16 for his 28 minutes in a close game.

- Finally, in one advanced metric, EC drew 9 fouls today (5 shooting) and fortunately went 8/9 and the line. The stroke looked way more confident and like his HS self today -- hopefully a good sign moving forward.

Anyway, it speaks VOLUMES to the character and toughness of this team to come out of that grab-fest with a W against all those long athletes. And sorry for harping on it, but pretty-boy Cassell has always sucked and that Potter jabronie needs to be reffing middle school somewhere --- to be sure, our 24 FTs should've been double that. We have to play a dangerous enigma Tuesday on the road, so let's hope for no let-down. As for today, a way better win than the national media will give is credit for!...
:cool:
 
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gary-7 said:
...and we survived utter mayhem.

And I'm gonna start right there.
Moment: In the second half, on the play #5 (the mouthy SOB who should've been T'd up in the first half) smacked his teammate in the face, on the replay both of those guys had firm holds on Mando (who had position for a rebound). THAT was FSU's story from the tip --- grab, hold, bump, hack and try to numb the incompetent ref crew, and it worked. That was THE reason Mando only got 4 rebounds all day, and the mayhem kept them in the game --- that and being unconscious from 3 early on.

Let's get to us:
- Ingram had another big board night (which we needed) with 17 to make up for the Mando-mugging, but did not do well driving and/or finishing vs their grabs.

- I was disappointed we only ran one possession of 44, especially after what it did to them last time. With that said, our rotations were once again tight. Big moment: Late game after they had cut it to 2, they try to iso EC and he uses his feet to force to help, and Ingram stepped in for the shot-block --- just the way you teach it in 4-man shell.

- Really disappointing day from our bench, who allowed themselves to get caught up in FSU's tactics. JWash was being knocked around by their physicality but I really thought Withers would be valuable today. However, he reverted to letting himself get sped up. High came in to mix it up but caught with his hands down on the perimeter for 3s. And Seth --- son, you can jump outta the gym --- stop air-hanging and DUNK the damn ball!

- We ultimately got our winning margin in spurts by using tempo and selectively breaking down their D with the same action we used against Wake. As for the latter, this time we knew they couldn't keep Cadeau from getting to the rim. However, when they started holding our Bigs and laid back to protect the rim (and got away with fouls) that made it more difficult. Thus, it was a good variation late to scheme that big floater for RJ.

- with that said, I didn't like killing our tempo too soon down the stretch. With all the swallowed whistles that played into FSU's hands. And our ball-movement also ground to a halt and we seemed to playing not to lose a bit.

- Speaking of RJ, FSU made an extra effort to smother him and he had trouble handling the rock vs their reaches, but still came up with 24 (hard-earned) pts.

- Ultimately the difference-maker today was #2 (despite getting HOSED by Cassell on two great defensive plays). Any time he was out, things got very sketchy. Despite getting (once again) shorted a board and a dime, EC finished with 16 pts and 6 Assists, and a +16 for his 28 minutes in a close game.

- Finally, in one advanced metric, EC drew 9 fouls today (5 shooting) and fortunately went 8/9 and the line. The stroke looked way more confident and like his HS self today -- hopefully a good sign moving forward.

Anyway, it speaks VOLUMES to the character and toughness of this team to come out of that grab-fest with a W against all those long athletes. And sorry for harping on it, but pretty-boy Cassell has always sucked and that Potter jabronie needs to be reffing middle school somewhere --- to be sure, our 24 FTs should've been double that. We have to play a dangerous enigma Tuesday on the road, so let's hope for no let-down. As for today, a way better win than the national media will give is credit for!...
:cool:
Click to expand...
Good analysis- we had to exceed their intensity. When we limited the turnovers and they started missing some shots, I thought we took it to them.
 
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Is there a law that says EC can not play the last possession of the first half ?? This was another one of those butt ugly games where people on the court other than players .. aka zebras .. made to much of a difference. That said .. a veteran team like this should not be stymied by an in bounds press to the point of having to call 2 TO's in the first half .. and that is a COACHING thing. This is another one of those games on the road when you can't half ass around and expect to win and that should never happen with a seasoned group.

Win is a win but this is the first game in a while where the guys had some really bad mental/focus issues. On the bright side it's better to get them now than later. Seriously those guys take a good look at the dvr's and realize sometimes mental is as important as the x's and o's.
 
Well, that is FSU at their place, not a easy win! Look, the refs, they swallowed the whistle more than I thought they maybe should but I will take that all day vs the ticky tack quick whistles we have seen to much of. It was darn physical and yes our big men got mugged, our guards to. Watched RJ get fouled at least 3 times on a single break away and they gave RJ a TO because he went down at the end? LOL

I said during the game, this just was not a game for Witt, Seth, and definitly not Paxon. I continue to believe that we are missing what I think could become a HUGE cog by not getting JWash in there for those turn around jumpers, they can be lethal. But how do you fuss when we just beat what, the #2 for now team in the ACC at their place and continued both our winning streak as well as steak of games holding opponents below 70.

RJ did RJ things, a lil bit less loudly but make no mistake, that kid is playing lights out for us! Ryan, couple really big jumpers to get that second half going, Ingram with a couple big ones as well and all the sudden FSU, where did that lead go? FSU shot over their heads for that first half, figured they would have to come back to planet Earth, they did.

Ingram, yet another day at the office for that kid, I really enjoy how hard he plays, he is a throw back kind of guy, he is so darn good at doing the garbage work! 17 boards today, what was it, 7 of them offensive to go with 13 or so points, 3 steals and one of our 2 blocks? Will he clean up the floor when everyone has left the building? LOL By the way, Ryan's defense is flying under the radar, that kid is working hard as well.

Cadeau was huge today, I didn't feel all that impressed with those FSU guards but they are long. Not a player on that FSU team could stay ion front of Cadeau when Cadeau wanted to get past them. When Cadeau went out with that second quick foul in the first half all the sudden FSU pressure started to bother us, it didn't when Cadeau was in.
 
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al would said:
Is there a law that says EC can not play the last possession of the first half ?? This was another one of those butt ugly games where people on the court other than players .. aka zebras .. made to much of a difference. That said .. a veteran team like this should not be stymied by an in bounds press to the point of having to call 2 TO's in the first half .. and that is a COACHING thing. This is another one of those games on the road when you can't half ass around and expect to win and that should never happen with a seasoned group.

Win is a win but this is the first game in a while where the guys had some really bad mental/focus issues. On the bright side it's better to get them now than later. Seriously those guys take a good look at the dvr's and realize sometimes mental is as important as the x's and o's.
Click to expand...
The first timeout happened because the FSU defender flattened Cadeau before the inbound. No excuse for a ref not making that call. The others were the fault of our inbounder, as well as our 3rd option not coming to help. Still, we had seals and available hands on both. Make the damn pass, so no, that's not coaching. In fact, Hubert lit them up over that during a timeout.

With that said, yes, on the last first-half OB play you need to bring Cadeau back in to make that pass and we likely get a different outcome. Also, for the umpteenth time, PLEASE stop subbing him out at the under-16. The impact was especially glaring today.
 
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Cadeau played a heck of a game today.

Defense was still very good. Felt like we got suckered into some passes and shots that FSU wanted us to do. They do have some length and use it defensively.

Shout out to Ryan. Playing hard no matter how he is shooting. This has been true all year. Today he hit a few nice ones. Mondo didn't force things even though he didn't have a great game and that really helped. He has really stepped up blocking shots it seems like.
 
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gary-7 said:
The others were the fault of our inbounder, as well as our 3rd option not coming to help.
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No sense in splitting hairs or pointing fingers G. At this point in the season those guys should never have to call a TO to get bailed out on a press. When you see more than 2 opposing players on their side the court then some seasoned player, which we have many of should call it out. Officiating sucked but there were times we were (mentally) not hitting on all cylinders. Still a damn fine Q1 win (as I hear) and any away win in conference is a bonus. Them boys took some brownies back to CH so it was a great win.
 
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montana_heel said:
Cadeau played a heck of a game today.

Defense was still very good. Felt like we got suckered into some passes and shots that FSU wanted us to do. They do have some length and use it defensively.

Shout out to Ryan. Playing hard no matter how he is shooting. This has been true all year. Today he hit a few nice ones. Mondo didn't force things even though he didn't have a great game and that really helped. He has really stepped up blocking shots it seems like.
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I'll use this to amend my OP on a couple of things:

- Yes, Cormac played hard despite getting hosed by whistles on some hustle plays

- Pax did a nice job off the bench, especially manning up and getting that big put-back when our bigger guys couldn't seem to convert it

- And credit where it's due --- Styons actually called a solid game today, which makes the performance of his two lesser colleagues even worse.
 
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Nice write-up Gary.

The U16 sub of Cadeau was terrible and I believe that was the stretch when Seth butchered a break-away layup/shouldabeenadunk and RJ also inexplicably missed a point blank layup. FSU threw in a three and that was a seven point swing which never should have happened.

Also not sure what the zebras are thinking when the all-time leading rebounder for UNC seemingly can't get his hands to the ball....

Ingram is anticipating misses and the trajectory of misses brilliantly, both on offense and defense. And the added attention on Mando is freeing him up to move.

This team is finding ways to win, home and away and there's still creases to iron out.

Last point... anyone snigger just a little when the TV announcers tried to talk up the crowd noise whilst the screen showed row upon row of empty seats.... on a night when the top team in the league (and #3 in the country) is visiting!
 
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FSU and Hamilton always like to run at you and not worry about fouls, as he, even in years with 1st round picks likes to spread minutes to a detrimental level in my opinion for continuity. He certainly did that today.

Cadeau was huge from the tip, as he could make the extended pressure pay with his penetration off the dribble. Not picking up a 3rd was key as he picked up at the start of the 2nd half. They played kick outs and passing lanes trying to make him finish. Good move on thier part. He will work on a float game, to add a dimension, got a great one to emulate, RJ's float game has been fantastic. 8-9 free throws was huge foe Cadeau. After missing his first badly, he ripped off 8 straight.

RJ is a bucket, needed it, as he finished strong even with the heavy load with the FSU pressure all game playing 35 minutes.

Controlled the glass even with Mando's very quiet night. Ingram is morphing into a Barkley, mini Moses type glass cleaner. When you are consistently flirting with 20 boards lately, that is next level production.

Cormac hit two huge timely threes. Played hard. A tough gritty road win is always mighty impressive to me. Wasn't a work of art, but the result sure was pretty to these eyes.
 
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Championship level teams have to be able to survive this type of game and we did. Love this team's fight.

Harrison Ingram continues his rebounding dominance. 17 boards. Leads the ACC in reb per game. He had a huge put back with around 4.5 minutes left when we were only up 3 (I think). Then the blocked shot with under 2 minutes left. Beast.

Cadeau was getting to the rim whenever he wanted for most of the game. That man is so quick. His FT stroke was on today, 8-9 on FT. 6 assists. Like someone said already, if Elliot ups his ppg to around 10-11 and keeps making the FT 70-75%, we get to that next level. Btw, did he ever come out of the game in the 2nd half? Maybe, but I can't remember him not being on the court the whole 2nd half.

Couple of negatives, number 1: too many turnovers, and going along with that, too many times struggled on in bounds passing. Chalk that up to FSU leading the ACC in steals and the officiating in this game being what it was. The other negative was our offense stalling in the last 5 minutes almost cost us. RJ needed to have the ball on a few on those possessions under 3 minutes. Elliot was forcing it on a couple of drives at the end when his legs were tired.

Great road win. 9-0. Sweep and tie breaker over FSU secured!
 
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TarHeelTroy said:
Cadeau was getting to the rim whenever he wanted for most of the game. That man is so quick. His FT stroke was on today, 8-9 on FT. 6 assists. Like someone said already, if Elliot ups his ppg to around 10-11 and keeps making the FT 70-75%, we get to that next level. Btw, did he ever come out of the game in the 2nd half? Maybe, but I can't remember him not being on the court the whole 2nd half.
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EC came out for 52 seconds in the second half and we promptly turned it over and he was back.
 
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gary-7 said:
- with that said, I didn't like killing our tempo too soon down the stretch. With all the swallowed whistles that played into FSU's hands.
Click to expand...

gary-7 said:
EC finished with 16 pts and 6 Assists, and a +16 for his 28 minutes in a close game. Finally, in one advanced metric, EC drew 9 fouls today (5 shooting) and fortunately went 8/9 and the line. The stroke looked way more confident and like his HS self today -- hopefully a good sign moving forward.

Anyway, it speaks VOLUMES to the character and toughness of this team to come out of that grab-fest with a W against all those long athletes. And sorry for harping on it, but pretty-boy Cassell has always sucked and that Potter jabronie needs to be reffing middle school somewhere
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1. Has our 1/2 court offense come down to basically just spreading the floor and letting RJ or Elliot go 1 on 1? What happened to ball movement and making the defense have to guard 5 guys?
2. Nobody in America can stay in front of him but at some point he will have to get his confidence back and knock some shots down.
3. Lee Cassell will be on a most wanted poster one day.
 
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Thanks for the write ups as always, G.

Glad to see continued improvement and very solid play from our backcourt. Cormac and Harrison shooting it well is an added facet for the team at this point of the season. EC getting more comfortable and RJ playing like the ACC POY. Love seeing EC with all the “easy” layups. Bacot having a profound effect on winning but not needing to put up such big numbers, fantastic defense and screening from him. This year they have the desire and the chemistry and the joy!

Fired up this year, go Heels! 9-0 😎
 
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Bacot doesn't have to take the backseat completely.. my god he is like the last option on offense now.. and Ingram is taking all the rebounds. Love the effort from Ingram. But have to wonder what Bacot is doing or thinking.. I know it's working but it is strange seeing Bacot being the last option. Even Cadeau has passed him up now!
 
TarHeelFanWV said:
Bacot doesn't have to take the backseat completely.. my god he is like the last option on offense now.. and Ingram is taking all the rebounds. Love the effort from Ingram. But have to wonder what Bacot is doing or thinking.. I know it's working but it is strange seeing Bacot being the last option. Even Cadeau has passed him up now!
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FSU basically held Mando to prevent us from working inside-out and their length is a real thing. Since they will accept up-down switches the best plan was to let our little guys wear their Bigs out. Mando is willing to do the dirty work. Credit to him.
 
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gary-7 said:
FSU basically held Mando to prevent us from working inside-out and their length is a real thing. Since they will accept up-down switches the best plan was to let our little guys wear their Bigs out. Mando is willing to do the dirty work. Credit to him.
Click to expand...
And I will also add they were holding Mando to keep him off the glass, and ok then... Ingram made hay.
 
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TarHeelFanWV said:
Bacot doesn't have to take the backseat completely.. my god he is like the last option on offense now.. and Ingram is taking all the rebounds. Love the effort from Ingram. But have to wonder what Bacot is doing or thinking.. I know it's working but it is strange seeing Bacot being the last option. Even Cadeau has passed him up now!
Click to expand...

Bacot has always IMO been the "tallest midget" so to speak!

A good player on a average team, and a simple role player on a good team!
 
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TarHeelFanWV said:
Bacot doesn't have to take the backseat completely.. my god he is like the last option on offense now.. and Ingram is taking all the rebounds. Love the effort from Ingram. But have to wonder what Bacot is doing or thinking.. I know it's working but it is strange seeing Bacot being the last option. Even Cadeau has passed him up now!
Click to expand...
I think Bacot may have a high ankle issue, could be continuation from last season re-aggravated.
 
There was a 2+ minute stretch today that should be enough to get every ref in that game let go. They let FSU beat the crap out of us with no call. Let that dumbass #5 talk crap after mugging Bacot. The ref pulled Bacot away while that moron kept talking and flipping his head around. Finally the refs called the foul next time down the court after he held Bacot consistently for at least 5 secs before the call. But the icing on the cake during that 2+ min stretch was the dumb F ref who called EC being out of bounds on his steal…. He was was in the air. Just frustrating watching that crap.

That said this team didn’t overreact to their bullying style of play. Bacot stayed cool and the team just battled. This team is mentally tough.

Like Gary mentioned above what’s up with Trimble? Dunk the damn ball! He’s had a few the last couple games I keep waiting for a DSPN highlight dunk and he gets indecisive while going up and misses the shot.

This team is a TEAM. When we struggle the first half the coaches seem to make great adjustments… or the players start playing. I think it’s both. All I got to say is just wait when EC’s shot starts falling he will be unstoppable. It’s funny watching defenders play off him and he still blows by them.
 
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It’s crazy that Armando, RJ and Cormac don’t get those Senior considerations from the ref’s. Even if you don’t consider that the egregious fouls that weren’t called today hampered the flow of another ACC game. Bacot has gotten mugged for years but today’s game was on a whole other level. He was getting grabbed, hit, punched. Florida St. was getting away with illegal screens that were never called. Both RJ and EC got hammered several times to no avail and the refs kept letting this old Big East stuff go. I usually don’t get into the officiating that much but today’s game was ridiculous. When Bacot can’t lift his arm because the opposing players have him in an armbar hold like he’s in the WWE in a Wrestlemania Event that’s pretty easy to notice and to call. Kudos to Bacot for keeping his composure. I know this is how Florida St. plays but this was way over the top imo. Trimble for the love of God man go up stronger and off of one foot when the play calls for it and punch it. Trimble has come on tremendously but he has to start converting his layups and stop gliding to the basket. I wonder if his brother JP is going to give him any grief or suggestions over some of these missed opportunities. Ugly game but a huge, huge win that is helping build this teams confidence, character and toughness going into the second half of the season. GDTBATH
 
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I don't know Dsouthr. Bacot seems to be moving well and blocking shots. I really think he is putting team first and trying to not monopolize the ball when he gets it. He wants to go out a winner over being high scorer in my opinion. These guys really have some beautiful sets sometimes where good shots are being passed up for even better shots and that is fun to watch.
 
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gary-7 said:
FSU basically held Mando to prevent us from working inside-out and their length is a real thing. Since they will accept up-down switches the best plan was to let our little guys wear their Bigs out. Mando is willing to do the dirty work. Credit to him.
Click to expand...
So many worry about Bacot. He is fine. He is doing what he needs to do to win. Hell, being the best screener in college ball is enough. And yes teams are concentrating on stopping him. He doesn't need 15 and 13 every game. The team doesn't need it. He is fine.
 
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gkss said:
Opponents who try that crap need to understand that this will not be tolerated. Caleb was good at that. Bacot knows they have his back- the other team needs to know it too.
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I was watching for it and sure enough Mando subtly got some payback licks in once he knew he had a foul or two to give, but yeah, that's a veteran holding his cool for the team. Also, if you remember Hubert inserted High right after the incident to knock a few heads.
 
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