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Roy's Health....Next Coach

An ironic part is that there is a good chance the next coach has not been mentioned. When Larry Brown left Kansas how many thought their next coach would be an assistant with no hc experience? When dook was looking was k even on anyone's radar? When the time comes I am confident Roy will have input and want the absolute best man for the job, whether that is somebody on current staff or not. Coach Smith's legacy is still alive throughout college basketball and there will be many wanting to contribute to maintaining what he built.
 
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Still seems to me that Roy should / will have a lot of say in who it is. No intelligent respectful person will ask him who he'd choose, but I do think how he addresses who succeeds him in sustaining Carolina Basketball and The Carolina Way is very important.
 
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DevilBlue said:
Quick question for UNC fans. When the time comes(hopefully we get a few more years of Roy vs K because they make for great games) do you think that much like when Dean stepped down, he was making the call on who would be coach, and I assume K will basically have that same power, how do you think Roy will handle that? I could see it being more likely to stay in the UNC family if its basically up to Roy because I would assume to some extent since its going to happen in 2-3-5 years just due to age that there's some thought process going on it Roys head. Perhaps that was part of getting Hubert... Just wondering if you think Roy will be consulted or if he will have most of the final say?
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Roy does not have the same power that Dean had, nor should he. But just for clarification, Dean didn't really lean on anyone to hire Gut. He simply timed his retirement announcement so that it made it difficult for the AD to hire anyone but Gut. Dean wasn't the type of guy to use his influence in that sort of way. He was embarrassed by the power he had and it made him uncomfortable. So instead of going to the AD and saying, "I want Gut to get a chance". He simply waited until a month before the season began to announce knowing that the AD couldn't go out and get anyone else to coach the team so late. It was a shrewd move by Dean.

I'm not sure how it will go down with Roy. Bubba is a strong enough AD that I don't think he needs Roy's advice nor would he be influenced by Roy. But I think he will consult with Roy and allow Roy to make some recommendations. But they'll be just that - recommendations and nothing more.

As far as K, that's not the case with him. He will very badly want to be involved and he certainly has that kind of power and influence at duke. There would be hell to pay if K didn't get to play a large role in selecting the next duke coach. And I wonder what K's feelings are on that. On one hand, I'm sure he wants continued success for duke. But on the other, and you well know, K's ego is so large that he would struggle if the next guy came in and there wasn't a significant drop off. Because K wants and needs to be revered. He wants duke fans to say, "we'll never have it as good as when K was here" for years to come.
 
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gunslingerdick said:
As far as K, that's not the case with him. He will very badly want to be involved and he certainly has that kind of power and influence at duke. There would be hell to pay if K didn't get to play a large role in selecting the next duke coach. And I wonder what K's feelings are on that. On one hand, I'm sure he wants continued success for duke. But on the other, and you well know, K's ego is so large that he would struggle if the next guy came in and there wasn't a significant drop off. Because K wants and needs to be revered. He wants duke fans to say, "we'll never have it as good as when K was here" for years to come.
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Exactly. That's the internal tug-o-war that K will have when picking a replacement. "I don't want everything I've built to crumble to pieces... but I also don't want the next guy to out do me, or for them to forget how truly great I am". For those reasons, I think he's likely to pick someone within his tree/influence (that person will be forever seen as a K disciple, so K will live on) - but probably one that is a little on the older side (can't have someone come in that has 30+ years of coaching ahead of them and could challenge his sacred wins record). And in his heart of hearts (if he even has a heart, and it isn't the property of the devil), K would want to see a couple struggling seasons for Duke once he leaves, just so everyone talks about how great he was - and how there will never be another K.
 
gunslingerdick said:
Roy does not have the same power that Dean had, nor should he. But just for clarification, Dean didn't really lean on anyone to hire Gut. He simply timed his retirement announcement so that it made it difficult for the AD to hire anyone but Gut. Dean wasn't the type of guy to use his influence in that sort of way. He was embarrassed by the power he had and it made him uncomfortable. So instead of going to the AD and saying, "I want Gut to get a chance". He simply waited until a month before the season began to announce knowing that the AD couldn't go out and get anyone else to coach the team so late. It was a shrewd move by Dean.

I'm not sure how it will go down with Roy. Bubba is a strong enough AD that I don't think he needs Roy's advice nor would he be influenced by Roy. But I think he will consult with Roy and allow Roy to make some recommendations. But they'll be just that - recommendations and nothing more.

As far as K, that's not the case with him. He will very badly want to be involved and he certainly has that kind of power and influence at duke. There would be hell to pay if K didn't get to play a large role in selecting the next duke coach. And I wonder what K's feelings are on that. On one hand, I'm sure he wants continued success for duke. But on the other, and you well know, K's ego is so large that he would struggle if the next guy came in and there wasn't a significant drop off. Because K wants and needs to be revered. He wants duke fans to say, "we'll never have it as good as when K was here" for years to come.
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I would agree with most of what you say. I think K will be much more involved in who comes to Duke from the point of his word will carry more weight than all other people involved, whereas I do see Roys word being incredibly powerful but not the final say(though when you are a HOF caliber coach like Roy I feel a lot of people will agree with his choice) You are also right in terms of how Gut was placed. I do remember Dean saying how he thought Gut had earned a year of being the head coach and I deeply respect that Dean gave him that. Classy move. I do think Deans say was more in the later plan of Gut coaches a year...steps down...Roy steps in. Gut obviously coached a few years and Roy stayed in Kansas for a few years which wasn't quite to plan, but when they let Dohrety(might have spelled that wrong) go I think Dean was the one who lead the we need Roy and as Roy said "I couldn't say no to Dean twice" so I think Dean did use a good amount of his influence to pull strings but that's ok. Obviously worked out very well.

I do think K goes "in-house" as I feel its a much easier transition for any team to have a coach working a very similar or same system(why I think all new coaches should get 4 years because they need time to get the proper guys for the style they run) I would say I doubt K cares if the next person out does his achievements.
 
gunslingerdick said:
One of those guys for Butler is a borderline NBA all-star. How many ISU guys have had that talent? Let's not act like Butler was devoid of talent.

I like Stevens. I really do. I just don't sweat him to the degree everyone else does. Small sample size. At Butler it could have just been catching lightning in a bottle.
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The thing I have against Hoiberg is that he had a HUGE number of transfers coming into the program, some with on and off the court problems. I don't want UNC to have a revolving door like that. I'm right there with you on Fred's ability to coach. Great X and O guy. Just worry about the roster he brings in.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
If I didn't know better, I'd think you were an auburn fan ;)
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Ha! Yeah I am... and also a realist. Everything I said about Bryant is cold hard historical fact. He cheated at Maryland and left em on probation (1st ever NCAA probation I believe), then cheated at UK and left em on probation, cheated at A&M and left em on probation, then came to bama and got the REC protection and somehow the NCAA put him on the damned Infractions Comimittee. Unreal.
Once Bryant was gone and off the Committee, bama got busted several times... but now Saban has the cover of Mark Emmert, his old benefactor from his LSU days who covered up Little Nicky's grade-changing scandal (that threatened to end his career) --- and yet now somehow Emmert runs the damned NCAA :eek:. Bama, that before Emmert's tenure was labeled by the NCAA as a "serial repeat violator" and one mess-up away from the death penalty, is now operating with impunity. A couple years ago 3 NCAA investigators resigned over Emmert's shenanigans, especially his refusal to allow bama to be popped (and I mean popped HARD) as recommended by the investigators -- and that last part came right outta the mouth of one of those former investigators).
Gettin' the picture of how corrupt the system is?
 
gary-7 said:
Ha! Yeah I am... and also a realist. Everything I said about Bryant is cold hard historical fact. He cheated at Maryland and left em on probation (1st ever NCAA probation I believe), then cheated at UK and left em on probation, cheated at A&M and left em on probation, then came to bama and got the REC protection and somehow the NCAA put him on the damned Infractions Comimittee. Unreal.
Once Bryant was gone and off the Committee, bama got busted several times... but now Saban has the cover of Mark Emmert, his old benefactor from his LSU days who covered up Little Nicky's grade-changing scandal (that threatened to end his career) --- and yet now somehow Emmert runs the damned NCAA :eek:. Bama, that before Emmert's tenure was labeled by the NCAA as a "serial repeat violator" and one mess-up away from the death penalty, is now operating with impunity. A couple years ago 3 NCAA investigators resigned over Emmert's shenanigans, especially his refusal to allow bama to be popped (and I mean popped HARD) as recommended by the investigators -- and that last part came right outta the mouth of one of those former investigators).
Gettin' the picture of how corrupt the system is?
Click to expand...
Do you think its people with connections or more the NCAA as a business doesn't want to see its more popular coaches and teams hit especially if it means they aren't competing and earning revenue?
 
mikeirbyusa said:
NOBODY is saying give him the call TODAY.
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I didnt say you or anyone else is we just can't understand why a few of you posters on here keep avoiding the simple questions?

There have been hundreds of former Carolina players that could have been picked that had no coaching experience at all so I ask the question again!

WHY HIM?

Why not.........

Donald Williams
Eric Montross
JR Reid
MJ
Kenny Smith
James Worthy
Sam Perkins
Ronald Curry
Ed Cota
Antwan Jamison
Vince Carter
Melvin Scott
Scott Cherry

We could go on and on do you get my point?
 
gary-7 said:
Ha! Yeah I am... and also a realist. Everything I said about Bryant is cold hard historical fact. He cheated at Maryland and left em on probation (1st ever NCAA probation I believe), then cheated at UK and left em on probation, cheated at A&M and left em on probation, then came to bama and got the REC protection and somehow the NCAA put him on the damned Infractions Comimittee. Unreal.
Once Bryant was gone and off the Committee, bama got busted several times... but now Saban has the cover of Mark Emmert, his old benefactor from his LSU days who covered up Little Nicky's grade-changing scandal (that threatened to end his career) --- and yet now somehow Emmert runs the damned NCAA :eek:. Bama, that before Emmert's tenure was labeled by the NCAA as a "serial repeat violator" and one mess-up away from the death penalty, is now operating with impunity. A couple years ago 3 NCAA investigators resigned over Emmert's shenanigans, especially his refusal to allow bama to be popped (and I mean popped HARD) as recommended by the investigators -- and that last part came right outta the mouth of one of those former investigators).
Gettin' the picture of how corrupt the system is?
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Gary
I always LOVE your posts.
I mean this seriously - you should write a book about NCAA sports, scandals, etc up and down the East coast. Interesting stuff - so different than what is portrayed, given light (vs. hidden) in the media, and by NCAA. Pretty much confirms how corrupt and spineless the NCAA is... and arbitrary regarding who they go after (UNC).... vs. leave alone (Bama, LSU, UK, etc)
 
notashelbyfan said:
I didnt say you or anyone else is we just can't understand why a few of you posters on here keep avoiding the simple questions?

There have been hundreds of former Carolina players that could have been picked that had no coaching experience at all so I ask the question again!

WHY HIM?

Why not.........

Donald Williams
Eric Montross
JR Reid
MJ
Kenny Smith
James Worthy
Sam Perkins
Ronald Curry
Ed Cota
Antwan Jamison
Vince Carter
Melvin Scott
Scott Cherry

We could go on and on do you get my point?
Click to expand...

How many of those has coached ANYTHING? Hubert has.

How many of those have been out and recruited ANYONE? Hubert has.

How many of those has been under Roy's wing LEARNING? Hubert has.

Get it yet?

LOTS of guys could be considered, many I would have no problem with. And one of those will be Hubert Davis.

Happy now?
 
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I would really like to see Hubert step up as an ace recruiter before making an opinion on his potential hire as HC. It doesn't really seem to me that he has done that yet and all the "issues" may have prevented a valid opinion of his recruiting abilities at this time. I think he has plenty of time and maybe recruiting isn't a big responsibility of his right now. I do know he and Roy were together in Wilson when they came to one of Ingram's games but I usually hear Roy and Steve together on recruiting trips. I still think Roy is a great recruiter but the travel is bound to wear him down.
 
mikeirbyusa said:
How many of those has coached ANYTHING? Hubert has.

How many of those have been out and recruited ANYONE? Hubert has.

How many of those has been under Roy's wing LEARNING? Hubert has.

Get it yet?

LOTS of guys could be considered, many I would have no problem with. And one of those will be Hubert Davis.

Happy now?
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No because you still haven't answered the question I know he has had a few years of all you said now but what about before he was chosen?
 
GoNtheDistance said:
Once again ChapelHeeled, read all my posts and tell me where I promote Roy retiring? It was for discussion!

Was it where I said I hope he coaches as long as he's able? Was it where I said we are lucky to have him?.....sure sounds like im promoting for him to retire doesn't it? Yeah not so much.

You win the Tampax Poster of the Day, given to the poster who attempts to hijack a good thread for no reason, gets called out and then responds with yet another outlandish response.
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...idiots are a dime a dozen...your posting proves as much. What a douche-canoe...
 
So I'm the idiot yet you are the one posting things that contradict what was actually written in my posts? Makes sense.

You are a special kind of tool bag. Double bag edition.
 
mikeirbyusa said:
I'm so glad many think we can just "pick-choose" who we want.
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Gotta call you out on this one Mikey, we can pick and choose who we want........ but who ends up in the position has bugger-all to do with anything that gets written here.

It's a fun exercise in theory, like the "which supermodel would I choose over the others" game.
See, I was always an Elle Macpherson guy.......
 
Ozheelfan said:
Gotta call you out on this one Mikey, we can pick and choose who we want........ but who ends up in the position has bugger-all to do with anything that gets written here.

It's a fun exercise in theory, like the "which supermodel would I choose over the others" game.
See, I was always an Elle Macpherson guy.......
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mine would be Kate Upton...now I know why Verlander's ERA was up all year.
 
Last time we didn't go outside the family until it's too late. No one wants to be the backup plan is the main reason things went bad after Roy declined. I would think unc can pick and choose as much as any college basketball program in the country.
 
heels05champs said:
He better not be on the bench. At UNC, you hire experienced and proven head coaches. My list would consist of Brad Stevens, Archie Miller, Shaka Smart, Jay Wright and Sean Miller. They absolutely have to look outside the family because nobody within is ready and we saw how that worked with Doherty.
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Well, Dean Smith worked out quite well.
 
randman1 said:
Well, Dean Smith worked out quite well.
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So, you think we have a better chance at future success with someone currently on the bench than a proven head coach? That's essentially what you're saying. For every great assistant turned head coach (ex: Dean Smith), there is hundreds that fail. I'd much prefer a proven commodity. The best available should get the job regardless of their coaching tree. Hiring someone just because they're in the "family" is a disservice to the players, fans and the program.
 
All Brad's coaching experience was as an asst at Butler before taking over as HC. NO OTHER experience. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..............
 
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heels05champs said:
So, you think we have a better chance at future success with someone currently on the bench than a proven head coach? That's essentially what you're saying. For every great assistant turned head coach (ex: Dean Smith), there is hundreds that fail. I'd much prefer a proven commodity. The best available should get the job regardless of their coaching tree. Hiring someone just because they're in the "family" is a disservice to the players, fans and the program.
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Exactly. Referencing a hire UNC made in 1961 has essentially no relevance to this issue, 55+ years later, where the whole scope of college basketball is entirely different. Unproven assistants turned head coaches fail much more frequently than the rare successes that some are able to cite.

We've seen Stevens' cited as being one of the few that was able to be successful in this assistant turned head coach situation. But my question is, why do you want to roll the dice to see if you can find the next Stevens, when you can just go after Stevens himself, who has already proven to be able to be the coach you're looking for?
 
Heelicious said:
Gary
I always LOVE your posts.
I mean this seriously - you should write a book about NCAA sports, scandals, etc up and down the East coast. Interesting stuff - so different than what is portrayed, given light (vs. hidden) in the media, and by NCAA. Pretty much confirms how corrupt and spineless the NCAA is... and arbitrary regarding who they go after (UNC).... vs. leave alone (Bama, LSU, UK, etc)
Click to expand...
LOL.
 
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As for the thread topic: Not saying these are super realistic, but give me any of these coaches and I'm happy:

- Hoiberg
- Shaka
- Stevens
- Turgeon

Only go "in the family" if it makes sense. If it doesn't, don't force it.
 
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Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Exactly. Referencing a hire UNC made in 1961 has essentially no relevance to this issue, 55+ years later, where the whole scope of college basketball is entirely different. Unproven assistants turned head coaches fail much more frequently than the rare successes that some are able to cite.

We've seen Stevens' cited as being one of the few that was able to be successful in this assistant turned head coach situation. But my question is, why do you want to roll the dice to see if you can find the next Stevens, when you can just go after Stevens himself, who has already proven to be able to be the coach you're looking for?
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In a way you would be rolling the dice with Stevens too. He's won, but he won at a mid major. Successful mid major coaches fail all the time when they get the call up to a major conference. Stevens may be able to make the transition, but he is not the sure thing that some people think he would be. In the end it's all a guess. We've gotten lucky to have Dean and Roy.
 
I would not have a problem with Hubert at all if that would be the hire in the future. Quite a few coaches in waiting have done quite well lately. With Hubert, the AD, rest of the coaching staff and players have seen him in an environment on a 24/7 basis and know exactly what he is and is not. That is something that is a little more difficult when hiring outside of the existing coaching staff.

The impossible part of this discussion is when this would happen. 3 vs 6 vs 9 years from now is quite a difference.

Who I would like is:

Bill Self - Plays with nice mix of experience and OAD talent. Great recruiter and great coach. Only problem is that I doubt we could get him.

Turgeon - See Bill Self. Not sure on his recruiting ability. Think he might be willing to look depending on what happens the next few years.

Archie Miller - I don't know much about him but am impressed with what I have seen in watching Dayton the last few years.

King possibly. Like to see a little more of a track record.
 
tarheel0910 said:
In a way you would be rolling the dice with Stevens too. He's won, but he won at a mid major. Successful mid major coaches fail all the time when they get the call up to a major conference. Stevens may be able to make the transition, but he is not the sure thing that some people think he would be. In the end it's all a guess. We've gotten lucky to have Dean and Roy.
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Fair enough, although I'd argue that while Stevens may be a dice roll because he hasn't won at a major college program, he'd be less of a dice roll than Hubert Davis or someone similar - who haven't won as a head coach at any level. I don't know how many P5 schools have an established head coach that is both young and successful enough to make a worthwhile hire for UNC, and that wants to leave their current spot for UNC. Names we've seen pop up here such as Self and Izzo seem farfetched to see them leaving the situations they're currently in. Turgeon is almost in that same category, although I'd imagine he'd leave Maryland before the other two would leave their spots. Archie Miller is less than a poor man's Stevens - his success is at a non P5 school, but his success isnt even close to that of Stevens at Butler (back to back national runner ups), and he doesn't have the additional NBA coaching experience as well.

If the knock on Stevens is that we don't know if he can win at a major college program like UNC, I'm willing to take my chances. He won big at Butler, with players that didn't get the big time offers; and he's done much better than anticipated/projected with the Celtics, and their roster of rejects. I think that shows that if he were the coach at UNC, and couldn't recruit worth a damn, he'd still be fairly successful. If he can actually recruit better talent than his opposition for once (which I can't imagine would be all that difficult with the UNC brand), look out.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
Fair enough, although I'd argue that while Stevens may be a dice roll because he hasn't won at a major college program, he'd be less of a dice roll than Hubert Davis or someone similar - who haven't won as a head coach at any level. I don't know how many P5 schools have an established head coach that is both young and successful enough to make a worthwhile hire for UNC, and that wants to leave their current spot for UNC. Names we've seen pop up here such as Self and Izzo seem farfetched to see them leaving the situations they're currently in. Turgeon is almost in that same category, although I'd imagine he'd leave Maryland before the other two would leave their spots. Archie Miller is less than a poor man's Stevens - his success is at a non P5 school, but his success isnt even close to that of Stevens at Butler (back to back national runner ups), and he doesn't have the additional NBA coaching experience as well.

If the knock on Stevens is that we don't know if he can win at a major college program like UNC, I'm willing to take my chances. He won big at Butler, with players that didn't get the big time offers; and he's done much better than anticipated/projected with the Celtics, and their roster of rejects. I think that shows that if he were the coach at UNC, and couldn't recruit worth a damn, he'd still be fairly successful. If he can actually recruit better talent than his opposition for once (which I can't imagine would be all that difficult with the UNC brand), look out.
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All good points. I do think Stevens could be a great coach at UNC. The NBA experience would help with recruiting. It would be nice to see what he could do with top talent.
 
acarter0277 said:
The thing I have against Hoiberg is that he had a HUGE number of transfers coming into the program, some with on and off the court problems. I don't want UNC to have a revolving door like that. I'm right there with you on Fred's ability to coach. Great X and O guy. Just worry about the roster he brings in.
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Hoiberg got who he could for the program he was at. At Carolina he would be able to get top talent without the issues no problem.
 
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