I actually do. Minds Matter up in Harlem. But continue to make incorrect assumptions, it just continues to prove my point.
Santa Fe shooting
- Thread starter gunslingerdick
- Start date
I actually do. Minds Matter up in Harlem. But continue to make incorrect assumptions, it just continues to prove my point.
You can't measure that.
What you can measure is gun crime per capita and we are up there with 3rd world drug producing countries where cartels basically run the country. But hey, I've watched Narcos, Colombia seems GREAT!
Doesn't take a genius to know what we'd both be referring to there...criminals, mentally unstable people (and doctors will be the ones deciding that one), children, elderly, etc. etc.
Can't measure what?
From a quick search I did the USA is in the thirties. Obviously nothing to throw a party over, but certainly not the worst.
Great. Then you’re doing your part. Not sure how that proves any point you were making. In fact, I’m still struggling to figure out what point you were making. Guns are bad? Was that it?
The point I’m making is that we can all do something. I’m glad that you are. I’m sincere in that. Are your other non-gun owning friends doing the same? Because I’m for trying every option before taking guns away from good law abiding citizens.
We're just behind Iraq. Don't worry guys, we're only a few more school children being brutally murdered away from catching them...I think the NRA can do it!
Too much variation in that. If someone takes Prozac to deal with the death of a parent for 6 months following a tragic accident, are they mentally unstable for life?
But why?
That is my question that I still haven't had answered. Why the hell do we have to try everything but that?
How about we try that and see what happens.
I didn't quote the right part. Basically agreeing with you that it's very tough to measure how many times a gun actually stopped a crime. I'll concede I have no idea.
Ok. Thought you were trying to say you couldn't measure other factors that increases a person's chances to commit a violent crime.
Regarding your mentally unstable remark. How do you find out who has these issues? Are you going to require them to be seen by a doctor first? What about if the condition they have is under control because they are taking medication and seeing a doctor on a regular basis? You seem to be irritated by the people you claim have not given you a reason not to take away guns, but all you have done is offered talking points from the anti gun crowd. Maybe you don't know how to accomplish what you're proposing, which is fine. I'm not sure what the perfect solution is either.
On the mentally unstable, agree, it's tough. It's also tough because most of these 17 year old kids who shoot up schools have a mental condition that 1. isn't even diagnosed yet 2. not using their own gun.
My point here is that when there are less guns, there is less gun violence. We have a serious problem with gun violence in the US, I think we can all agree there. Why are we not proposing a fairly obvious measure to help combat this? Because we're holding onto something passed in 1790? I disagree with this, very very much (if ya couldn't tell).
No way do I know the perfect solution and no way do I know that this will completely solve the problem. What I'm saying is that we need to work on a solution to this problem and I think having less guns out there by making it more difficult to get a gun is a hell of a logical start.
I don't mind reasonable gun control measures. That might help reduce the amount of guns going forward, but there are so many guns out there now that it will still be easy to get one. These gangs aren't going into gun stores to buy guns. But guns are only one part of the issue. Socioeconomic issues, education, not having a parent around are all contributing to the violence as well. I think expecting a large drop in gun violence just because we make it hard to get a gun legally is being naive.
Fact: There is a negative correlation between legal gun ownership and violent gun crime ie: murder. See Chicago and New York. If you think you can just spout off a bunch of made up ‘facts’ then you should go go back to Communist school and get your money back.
We could try that...if we don’t care about the constitution or individual’s rights.
Let me ask you this: what does research say happens when we put properly vetted, armed military vets at schools? What does research say about putting more officers at schools? Where is the research on the plethora of other ideas - the ones that don’t infringe on individual’s rights?
I guess the 22 number just exists in your head and some ethereal being puts knowledge in there each night as you sleep.
Lulz at people still blaming the NRA. Please point me to all of these NRA members who are committing mass murders.
@dadika13 if you want an actual answer to your question of "why should we be allowed to have guns" here is my answer:
The human beings is who we need to figure out a fix for. Evil people are out there committing these crimes. What bothers me is when liberals say "let's ban guns," what you're really saying is "Well, if someone at a school brings a knife and only kills 2 people instead of 10, I feel much better about that because it's only 2 dead instead of 10." No. It still sucks, regardless. We need to figure out what is turning the youth of America into evil pieces of shit. Hint: it's not an inanimate object.
- It's specifically a granted right in the U.S. Constitution.
- Beyond the 2nd Amendment, individuals should be free to own them in order to protect their person, family, and property. No, this isn't a "have a gun to stop someone with a gun" situation like you poasted earlier in this thread. Believe it or not, home invasions happen all the time where the assailant(s) don't have guns.
- Just in general, I'm against the government legislating against individual liberties and freedoms. I'm just as appalled that NYC passed (before repealing) a ban on sodas over 16 ounces. I'm against restricting individual liberties.
The human beings is who we need to figure out a fix for. Evil people are out there committing these crimes. What bothers me is when liberals say "let's ban guns," what you're really saying is "Well, if someone at a school brings a knife and only kills 2 people instead of 10, I feel much better about that because it's only 2 dead instead of 10." No. It still sucks, regardless. We need to figure out what is turning the youth of America into evil pieces of shit. Hint: it's not an inanimate object.
Doesn't matter if it's 2, 12 or 22 . . there's been too many of our children murdered. Maybe, you haven't been following this thread's discussion close enough.
Nobody is pimping CNN, and I care less about the number of actual school shootings, other than there have been one to many. You can credit or discredit whomever you like. If, you don't like CNN, then don't watch the network.
See ya . .
I was in a community needs assessment all morning facilitated by the United Way and our local healthcare system. We discussed these very things. And the discussions didn’t really materialize and it’s largely because we’re scared to get down to real talk and cut the PC bullshit. We can’t say that the societal maladies are largely caused by the breakdown of the traditional family unit. Because lord forbid we offend a gay couple attempting raise children. We can’t say that these problems are largely socioeconomic because some liberal will probably call you a racist. You can’t bring up education because, well, education is a goddam mess.
But I agree with your whole poast. If people have a drinking problem, we don’t immediately call for everyone to stop drinking. Because the drinking is just a bigger issue manifesting itself. That’s where our efforts should be directed - not to take guns away but to fix the broken people that misuse guns.
in the 90 or so days since parkland, one state banned bump stocks, one state increased the age to purchase, iirc.
so, again, kids were forgotten about and very little action taken...and sure we can argue it was different this time, but the main point is, in the days following parkland all i kept reading was “i hope we don’t forget about the kids this time like in(insert your last tragedy).
so, again, kids were forgotten about and very little action taken...and sure we can argue it was different this time, but the main point is, in the days following parkland all i kept reading was “i hope we don’t forget about the kids this time like in(insert your last tragedy).
I would imagine more students die from alcohol related incidents as they do from gun violence. If the stats prove this true, can we ban alcohol?
Honestly, I am ok with stricter restrictions as long as it's not abused by government. It also needs to be handled on a state level and not a national. Banning will only turn people like me into criminals.
And by they way, I enjoy guns. I love to shoot them. I like the power they have. And I like the fact that they are an object to be respected. We grew up around d guns and learned early on that you handled them properly. They are not the boogie man people make them out to be. Its society that has created this monster. The NRA wants to help mitigate these issues, but not at the cost of giving up what their constituents desire. No one in their right mind wants these kids hurt. But it's a price we all pay I a society that created this issue to begin with.
Ban all you want, it's not going to stop until the home itself is fixed.
Honestly, I am ok with stricter restrictions as long as it's not abused by government. It also needs to be handled on a state level and not a national. Banning will only turn people like me into criminals.
And by they way, I enjoy guns. I love to shoot them. I like the power they have. And I like the fact that they are an object to be respected. We grew up around d guns and learned early on that you handled them properly. They are not the boogie man people make them out to be. Its society that has created this monster. The NRA wants to help mitigate these issues, but not at the cost of giving up what their constituents desire. No one in their right mind wants these kids hurt. But it's a price we all pay I a society that created this issue to begin with.
Ban all you want, it's not going to stop until the home itself is fixed.
It's always been confusing to me why people cared so much about removing guns.
I can tell you right now that you wouldn't be ok with this.
No it's not, and that's a bush league arguing tactic. "Oh, you don't want to limit guns... therefore you must love seeing little kids get their heads blown off"
In theory, this is great. In practice, it doesn't work because:
These laws to limit guns work for law abiding citizens. But someone who will use the gun nefariously, isn't going to obey the gun laws either. "Man, I was gonna kill 20 people, but the fact that it's illegal for me to buy a gun on the black market is gonna prevent me from doing that".
That wouldn't have made a difference in this situation would it? I'm not really against either of those things, but that's the perfect example of doing something just to say you did something instead of addressing the issue.
Sounds like the beginnings of a bad police state type situation ifyam.
You just argued for media censorship on the first page.
There would be ways to track these guns, but fanatics would never agree to it.
but my point, as i stated, was how quickly parkland was forgotten...i really thought that could’ve been a huge moment...instead, i’m watching news channels interview parents of parkland kids describing what santa fe parents should be expecting...just sad
The problem with more officers is you (the generic you) is not willing to pay for it. I'm all for more officers at schools. That means we need more officers (and we have less and less now) and we have to pay them. That probably means raising taxes and finding ways to fund all of that. I'm ok with that. Most aren't though. It theoretically goes like this.
Public: We need more SROs at schools.
Some form of Govt: I agree. We need to raise x tax to fund it.
Public: Thoughts and prayers and hope this doesn't happen again.
I mean, 2 instead of 10 would be better. That is kind of the entire point. Not having access to certain guns helps limit the damage. That doesn't mean the other things you are talking about aren't more important though. They most certainly are.
This kid carried out the Santa Fe attack with two types of guns that will never, ever be illegal unless all guns are banned: a shotgun and a pistol.
I agree. This one isn't really like the others. That fact doesn't impact that argument. It emphasizes the other aspects you mentioned though.
I'm a huge proponent of metal detectors in high schools but am not really knowledgeable enough to know how effective or realistic that is.
