Here's the full game replay of Ryan's last game against us, if anyone wants more extensive scouting.
Ryan was pretty inefficient in this game (14 points on 18 shots, 3 turnovers). Did a decent job guarding Love though.
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- Thread starter ACokeForRoy
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Here's the full game replay of Ryan's last game against us, if anyone wants more extensive scouting.
Ryan was pretty inefficient in this game (14 points on 18 shots, 3 turnovers). Did a decent job guarding Love though.
Here's what Ryan looked like in the NCAA tournament. That was back before his coach quit on the team.
I don't think you can go wrong with him, but I don't really think he's the best fit.
I'm assuming the scholarships go
1 - Wojcik
2 - Withers
3 - Ryan or Dunlap
4 - Ingram or Cleveland
5. Cadeau
6. Jackson
With Mgbako being a guy I can't quite figure out if he's even considering us.
Just spitballing - not claiming these mpg would be right, but you have to start somewhere. What have you got?
Oops, I forgot Wojcik. Problem is we don't need anyone in the PG-SG-SF slots, so he will just cut into other guys. Is HD planning to start him ahead of Dunn or Seth?
Oops, I forgot Wojcik. Problem is we don't need anyone in the PG-SG-SF slots, so he will just cut into other guys. Is HD planning to start him ahead of Dunn or Seth?
| Player | PG | SG | SF | PF | C | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cadeau | 28 | -- | -- | -- | -- | 28 |
| RJ | 6 | 26 | -- | -- | -- | 32 |
| Seth | 6 | 2 | -- | -- | -- | 8 |
| Wilcher | -- | 10 | 4 | -- | -- | 14 |
| Dunn | -- | 2 | 2 | -- | -- | 4 |
| Cormac | -- | -- | 26 | -- | -- | 26 |
| Withers | -- | -- | -- | 24 | -- | 24 |
| Washington | -- | -- | -- | 11 | 5 | 16 |
| Armando | -- | -- | -- | -- | 29 | 29 |
| High | -- | -- | -- | -- | 6 | 6 |
| TBA | 0 | 0 | 8 | 5 | 0 | 13 |
| TOTAL | 40 | 40 | 40 | 40 | 40 | 200 |
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Don’t know why not. He constantly moves without the ball, is ”interested on defense”, and will be the best shooter on our team. Our ability to spread the court just improved dramatically.
Indiana fans appear to be jumping off a cliff over rumors they missed on him and Knecht.
Larranaga (and Brey) wanted him too, that's a good sign.
I wish he were an NBA athlete but I think he's a good fit, all-in-all. A bigger guard who can shoot and defend decently. He should work well with RJ and Cadeau. Hopefully we can land a high-end wing, or (getting greedy) even two!
Who is Hill? And if Dunn only gets 4 mpg next year, it’s safe to say that he will be leaving afterwards. Or even after the first semester.
Nothing at all wrong with him. But we need a true SF and PF, not a SG who will have to play SF.
I'm delighted to have him. But we still haven't properly filled the biggest holes.
Holy shit, we could sign Lebron & somebody would say something negative.
High. Obviously. Thanks for catching that.
Yep, I don't see enough minutes to keep Dunn and Trimble happy. Maybe not even Wilcher, either. I really thought he might start this year, but now there don't seem to be enough minutes for him, much less a starting slot.
And if we add someone like Ingram or Cleveland that pushes Ryan into competition for SG minutes. Against Dunn and Wilcher.
Then imagine if Jackson reclassifies.
That's why, as much as I am glad to get a quality player like Ryan, I don't think this addresses our most critical need.
Of course if Cadeau does not reclassify, then RJ is at point, backed by Seth, while Wilcher, Ryan, Dunn and somebody else (?) handle the wing positions, and there's enough PT.
We need good players right? We have two confirmed good ones: Bacot and Davis. Don't think we should turn down proven contributors for someone as marginal as Dunn, or unproven as Wilcher. Betting on those guys as starters is a big risk for unsuccessful seasons.
Even if Cadeau comes, we still need 15-20 minutes of play for when Davis/Cadeau sit at a minimum. Ryan is a big upgrade from everyone else on the roster for those minutes.
Wing is a huge need, but we'll use the other scholarship spots for that.
That would be a terrible move. He’s too old and slow. 😱
Can Ryan hit 3's with ease? If so, that's all I care about.
Well, according to Dillon Brooks, he’s only too old, he didn’t mention too slow.
Don't see the point hypothesising playing time for next season without a full team and it still being April.
And, as encouraging as it is to see Hubert signing players, it'll be nice to see him put them on the court for more than spot minutes...
And, as encouraging as it is to see Hubert signing players, it'll be nice to see him put them on the court for more than spot minutes...
I'd argue it's never too soon. And it introduces some sanity into the conversation.
Sometimes when people talk about who we need and who will play, if you add up the numbers, we'd need 250 minutes per game to give the PT they are talking about.
When you actually try to fit everybody into 200 minutes, and you try to give everybody a taste, while not overplaying anybody, it's not that easy. Plus it shows you where you still have important holes to fill or where you have a logjam.
Obviously my stab at PT allocation was guesswork. But not total guesswork. Even now we know that some guys are going to play some spots and not others. Some guys are going to get big minutes and will probably start, while others won't. All of that can change, of course, and some of it almost certainly will change, but we have a good sense of it already.
Let's look at an example. Bringing in Cadeau won't send RJ to the bench. Instead, he'll almost certainly start at SG. The open question becomes whether RJ slides to PG when Cadeau is on the bench, or whether Seth gets those backup minutes. That's not a question of whether you would rather have RJ or Seth on the floor, it's more a question of whether you'd rather have Seth take those minutes or RJ's sub - presumably Wilcher or Ryan - take those minutes. If you want the higher scorer getting those minutes, that cuts into Seth's PT. If you have enough scoring elsewhere, you might then want Seth's D, so he gets more minutes.
I literally forgot about that guy. I can't see him getting 6 mpg. He may get 6 in a game here and there. But there will be more games where he doesn't take off his warm ups.
I miss the days where guys like him would get closer to 8-10 minutes, because we would be curbstomping someone. That used to happen often
Yeah. It would be nice to hear more about him. Will he give us anything as a frosh? I penciled him in with 6 simply because I don't want to expect too much from Washington until I know we can count on him.
It would be great to learn in a couple of months that Washington has put on 20 pounds of muscle and is 110% healthy.
I worry about our lack of depth up front. Especially when I think about the injuries Washington and Armando have faced. I understand HD wanting to get shooters, but don't understand the concentration on short shooters.
Unless we hear really good things about Washington and High, I think we need a serviceable front line back up. That concern would diminish if we get Ingram. He's not a center or even terribly tall, but he's tall enough and can bang.
As I shared on another thread today, I am conflicted on this Ryan commit and yes PT across the board is a strong consideration/concern, I do think it drives one of our returners to the portal. But I want to turn this discussion a little bit.
Rather than being worried about how the minutes will be allocated, I say not one single player on this roster should come practice 1 be guaranteed a damn thing, that includes Bacot and RJ. Throw them all out there, let them compete against each other and let the best man win the spot. Cream will rise to the top and the cream is separated by the heat of the competition from your own team mates, if you really are what you think you are then competing should be a thing you embrace rather than fear. If in the end you can not beat the other guys out then welcome to the world of reality, you are now on your way to becoming an adult, we adults have to earn what we get. If you fear you are not good enough then really, you don't deserve it, it only gets harder at the next level. Some guys are simply good enough to be a big fish in a smaller pond but are better off not jumping in the ocean and go looking to take on megalodon. Last season struck me like every one of our players felt guaranteed of their starting spot and HUGE HUGE minutes, felt like Puff played as if he were guaranteed to get the most minutes off the bench, that team had no fire, almost as if they expect to be gifted wins rather than go out and take wins?
To me it is very disrespectful to not just the opponents but to former Tar Heels that gave all the had for the right to proudly wear that jersey to not go out and leave it all on the floor no matter who the opponent is. When we hear in a post game PC a player say we didn't come out ready to play at the same intensity of the team that just beat you, you just admitted to being disrespectful, I have now heard that 3yrs in a row, tired of hearing that.
Rather than being worried about how the minutes will be allocated, I say not one single player on this roster should come practice 1 be guaranteed a damn thing, that includes Bacot and RJ. Throw them all out there, let them compete against each other and let the best man win the spot. Cream will rise to the top and the cream is separated by the heat of the competition from your own team mates, if you really are what you think you are then competing should be a thing you embrace rather than fear. If in the end you can not beat the other guys out then welcome to the world of reality, you are now on your way to becoming an adult, we adults have to earn what we get. If you fear you are not good enough then really, you don't deserve it, it only gets harder at the next level. Some guys are simply good enough to be a big fish in a smaller pond but are better off not jumping in the ocean and go looking to take on megalodon. Last season struck me like every one of our players felt guaranteed of their starting spot and HUGE HUGE minutes, felt like Puff played as if he were guaranteed to get the most minutes off the bench, that team had no fire, almost as if they expect to be gifted wins rather than go out and take wins?
To me it is very disrespectful to not just the opponents but to former Tar Heels that gave all the had for the right to proudly wear that jersey to not go out and leave it all on the floor no matter who the opponent is. When we hear in a post game PC a player say we didn't come out ready to play at the same intensity of the team that just beat you, you just admitted to being disrespectful, I have now heard that 3yrs in a row, tired of hearing that.
I agree and want to share again, I like Withers to start at the 4 for us but do believe Jalen does have the ability to take that spot. But I do love the idea of having Withers and Ingram, two 6'8" 2365lbs guys, that is really nice middle length that can play physical if needed. You recall Bacot in a PC saying other teams considered us as sweet (another way of saying soft) and really, we were. Those 2 solid bodies along with Bacot, along with the intensity on the court from guys like Cadeau, Wilcher, RJ, and Seth (guards that will bite your arm off to get the ball) I don't think the "sweet" tag will apply.
Our front court depth, I admit, would feel better if we added 1 more big man but who would that big man be? I mean he would have to know he is not starting (I am looking at the 5 spot a guy to back up Bacot) nor will he get many minutes, is there a version of Wojik that is 6'11" and plays physical in the portal? If there is or will be wouldn't that guy be looking for starter minutes or at least back up minutes that were solid? Sisk is higher on High (that sound redundant but it isn't LOL) as a 5 than I think most feel, from what I hear kid is now around 6'10" & 225lbs and IMO moves pretty well for a kid his length, so maybe he or the combination of he and Jalen can take those back up minutes and we not bring in another 5? FYI, I see Jalen more as a long 4 that can still stretch out, kinda as well how I was considering High but Sisk is making me look at High a little different, so maybe we already have what we need.
| Player | PG | SG | SF | PF | C | Total | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cadeau | 28 | -- | -- | -- | -- | 28 | |
| RJ | 9 | 23 | -- | -- | -- | 32 | |
| Seth | 3 | 2 | -- | -- | -- | 5 | |
| Wilcher | -- | 7 | -- | -- | -- | 7 | |
| -- | -- | 25 | -- | -- | 25 | |
| Cormac | -- | 8 | 13 | -- | -- | 21 | |
| Withers | -- | -- | -- | 14 | 2 | 16 | |
| Washington | -- | -- | -- | -- | 8 | 8 | |
| Armando | -- | -- | -- | -- | 30 | 30 | |
| High | -- | -- | -- | -- | 0 | 0 | |
| Ingram | -- | -- | 2 | 26 | -- | 28 | |
| TOTAL | 40 | 40 | 40 | 40 | 40 | 200 |
Here's mine. I think we are adding two more wings and Cadeau in Hubert's ideal plan, so I'm going to assume we execute on it. The "transfer wing" minutes depend on the caliber of player we land. Could be only a 18 minute a game type player, or a 30+ minute per game starter if we land a big fish (Mgbako, Trey Alexander, Ricky Council, etc).
Can't really find minutes for Trimble/Dunn. I took Dunn of the list entirely in this scenario; I'd assume he transfers if this is the roster.
I think plan is to start Ingram at the 4. Cadeau/Davis/Cormac/Transfer all get big minutes in the 1-2-3 spots. Withers is a sub 4/5. Don't see High getting minutes as a freshman.
Just realized Wojcik is not reflected here either. He might get 5-10+ minutes a game too. If we can land Ingram, Cadeau, and another Wing it should be a deep team.
LOL. We both forgot Wojcik. Poor guy. I hope he doesn't get a complex.
I'll be the first to admit that your lineup is a good bit stronger than mine as a team, although I might quibble over allocations and who starts where. I'd love to have Ingram AND another starter-quality wing, too. Ingram and Cleveland would fit the bill nicely, imo.
But I actually came back to the board after mowing to ask if we are still in the running for either Ingram, or Cleveland (or both)? I have no idea, but I'd be surprised if we are in the running for both and would not be surprised if we are no longer in the running for either. Which is a shame, because either one of those guys would address most of my remaining concerns.
Of course getting either one would further exacerbate the PT allocation problem.
Here's the thing. @DSouthr's plea notwithstanding, I don't think we got Ryan, and won't get Ingram or Cleveland (or anyone like them) without strong assurances (borderline if not actual guarantees) of starting or at least lots of PT. And we may even have made similar noises to get Withers. Who knows.
So I guess my first quibble might be: no way Ryan came here to come off the bench behind some "Transfer Wing" for only 21 minutes of PT.
Second, I expect Withers to start, even if we get Ingram. I want Ingram to start at SF, and slide to PF. Of course that creates the same problems for Ryan that I just bitched about. And that's why, as much as I am chuffed to get Ryan, I don't think he was our best fit.
Third, if we land both Ingram and your Transfer Wing and that cuts Wilcher to 7 minutes a game, he's getting out if here if he can. A year ago with Caleb presumably gone and no thought of Cadeau reclassifying, Wilcher was almost certainly going to be our starting SG - or at least would get a lot of PT to play his way into the starting role. If I had to bet, I'd bet that was how UNC was sold to him. So 7 minutes won't cut it. Heck, my 14 minutes might not cut it. And it could be even worse because we both forgot to give minutes to Wojcik.
And speaking of Wojcik, there's no way he came here for his final year to play with the scrubs. Is there?
I agree that it's hard to imagine Dunn staying if we get Ingram and another starting wing. But what about Seth. Staff will be scrambling to find token minutes to keep him on board. But even token minutes will be in short supply. Lot's of schools would snap him up - where he could start or play big minutes - and I'm sure he knows it.
I think you're too optimistic about a number of players, namely Withers, Wilcher, and Trimble.
Withers: I'd be extremely surprised if Hubert promised Withers big minutes. Frankly he's just not a great player, no top team should be scrambling to add him as a starter. It's a big mistake if Hubert is counting on him as a starting 4 -- and why would he? There are better players like Ingram in the portal to start there. I think we land Ingram. For what reason do you assume Withers is a starter?
Trimble: had a high recruiting ranking, and that's about it. His offense was beyond dreadful this year. No contending team should be counting on him for major minutes. Could he start for Boston College? Yeah maybe, but not serious contenders. If push comes to shove, I think he's likely to get the Styles treatment for minutes this year absent major improvements. And that's what has to happen if you're trying to be a really good team, you can't give someone 15-20 minutes just because he was a high recruit. If that leads to a transfer then so be it, but we're trying to win games.
Wilcher: hard to know, there's a ton of variance in his recruiting range. He's ranked about where Trimble and Coby White were, and the two couldn't have had different freshman seasons. If Wilcher is closer to Coby White, he'll play 25 minutes a game no matter who we bring in. If he's not ready, then I think 5-10 minutes is realistic just as Trimble got in most games. It's not accurate to say "Wilcher was almost certainly going to be our starting SG" though; top teams nearly always have multiple talented options at each position. There was a chance Love was back for his senior year anyway, which Wilcher committed knowing that.
Bottom-line my philosophy (and I think what you see from most college coaches) is add as much talent as you can and let them earn minutes. The same way you don't turn down Cadeau to keep Trimble happy or Nance to keep Styles happy, you don't turn down Cormac to keep Wilcher happy. If Wilcher is better than Cormac it's not a concern anyway, and if not you need to play to win for next season. Have 1-2 program guys like Dunlap on your roster sure, but if we can add another top level wing I'd bet dollars to donuts Hubert isn't turning that guy down. This team is short of really good basketball players; it's not like we have 8-9 guys who've all excelled at the ACC level.
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Hubert must be planning to have 13 guards on his roster. We may have an average height of 6’3 for the starters not named Bacot.
Yeah that would be really puzzling -- I assume it was just preliminary interest and maybe before Cormac committed. We definitely need wings at this point. Think/hope we can add two high level guys who can potentially start.
For the umpteenth time
Assistant coaches contact countless recruits and transfers. That is just assistant coaches doing their due diligence. Often times it never progresses beyond a text message. And there is no way of knowing if this particular KSR "reporter" is even being truthful, knowing the history of the site he works for.
We have no one else at the moment. Ingram was literally on our campus yesterday though and fits best at the exact same position (the 4). We have Davis, Ryan, Wilcher already, potentially adding Cadeau and another wing. Withers is unlikely to be a top player on a contending team.
Not sure why you're refusing to extrapolate our roster based on what we see/hear. We're adding 2 more guys at least, potentially 3-4.
ETA: also the minutes allocation is inherently conservative, in that it doesn't account for injuries (Bacot, Puff, Washington, Dunn, Shaver all missed games last year). When you take that into account Wilcher's 7 minutes probably becomes 12-15 in most scenarios. The 7 minutes is with a fully loaded and healthy roster (I'm also assuming Wilcher is not already a really good player, which there's a chance he could be).
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Minor quibble: we don't need wings. We need SFs, 3/4s and/or 4/5s.
Right now Ryan is our starting SF and Withers is our starting PF. I think they can both do that. But I would rather have Ryan at SG. You don't even think Withers is starter quality.
If we only get 1 more immediate need filled, Ingram comes as close as anyone I've heard us show interest in - although personally I'd be happy to get Cleveland.
I hope we are still in the running for Ingram and Cleveland.
Sorry, to clarify when I say wings I'm considering 3s and many 4s as wings. E.g., I'd say Jordan Miller is a wing, even though he played the 4 for Miami. Brady Manek is maybe where I draw the line, he's a bit too immobile to be called a wing. More a true stretch 4.
We're clearly in contention for Ingram since he just visited. I think if he commits he starts at the 4. I think we'd need to wait a bit for the last wing if Ingram commits because Cleveland doesn't really fit (we need a better shooter if Ingram is the 4 IMO). Might need to see who else enters the portal or withdraws from the NBA draft.
