Very quick stuff (State game 2)...

[gary-7]

...and this will be very short.

In fairness, there were some encouraging things at the outset, like commiting to transition and utilizing enough bench to stay fresh, that again in fairness SHOULD have garnered us a double-digit halftime lead, one that we were largely zebraed out of. But with all that said, there's still the key problems that keep reappearing... and ended up finally blowing up in our faces ---- not finishing thru contact, not enough rebounding effort and help for Mando, not speeding up an opponent who doesn't like that, missing passing opportunities and cutters, having a tired backcourt from a dearth of second-half subbing, etc etc.... and the personnel issues. I had hoped for a starting lineup change at the 4, but nope. And trying to play Seth at the 1? Not a good idea at this stage.

I know we're all unhappy with what we're seeing, And right now I have no idea if any of this gets turned around this season, but what I do know is I'm not spending any more energy on this today. I have more important things to do, and I also have little patience with the usual suspects who will use every opportunity to push coaching-change nonsense. I have been the first to say that the staff is not having a good season, and I'll comment on what I think needs to be fixed, but using current woes to push tired anti-UNC-family agendas is just a waste of a keyboard.

Othar than that. vent away... L8er.

 

[trimbornunc86]

I’m willing to give Herbert the benefit of the doubt , he needs 4-5 seasons for a fair shake at it. That being said he did him a self a true disservice by letting Steve Robinson go and not hiring a Assistant coach who has been through it all. But this core group of players has never meshed that well aside from a couple weeks in late march/April. It’s the same team that broke Roy. I’m ready for a reset for next year even if that means that team only has first weekend tourney potential. It’s the end of year two and we have no idea what Dunn and Styles can bring to the table , same with the freshman. They have not gotten nearly enough run to really give a good idea of what they will be. Seems like next year will be transition year and then we will have the big class coming in for a legit run at it

 

[acc hoops]

In the 2 games versus State UNC shot 63 free throws to 22 for State .Don’t think I would complain about the officiating.

 

[gauchoheel]

In the 2 games versus State UNC shot 63 free throws to 22 for State .Don’t think I would complain about the officiating.

There were some pretty glaring blown calls today. All good though, we played like a team that that deserved to lose the last 10 minutes. Guess it's time to get excited for some potential transfer portal guys.

 

[WoadBlue]

...and this will be very short.

In fairness, there were some encouraging things at the outset, like commiting to transition and utilizing enough bench to stay fresh, that again in fairness SHOULD have garnered us a double-digit halftime lead, one that we were largely zebraed out of. But with all that said, there's still the key problems that keep reappearing... and ended up finally blowing up in our faces ---- not finishing thru contact, not enough rebounding effort and help for Mando, not speeding up an opponent who doesn't like that, missing passing opportunities and cutters, having a tired backcourt from a dearth of second-half subbing, etc etc.... and the personnel issues. I had hoped for a starting lineup change at the 4, but nope. And trying to play Seth at the 1? Not a good idea at this stage.

I know we're all unhappy with what we're seeing, And right now I have no idea if any of this gets turned around this season, but what I do know is I'm not spending any more energy on this today. I have more important things to do, and I also have little patience with the usual suspects who will use every opportunity to push coaching-change nonsense. I have been the first to say that the staff is not having a good season, and I'll comment on what I think needs to be fixed, but using current woes to push tired anti-UNC-family agendas is just a waste of a keyboard.

Othar than that. vent away... L8er.

'coaching-change nonsense'

What would need to happen, over how many seasons, before it would no longer be nonsense to speak about the need to make a coaching change?

 

[WoadBlue]

In the 2 games versus State UNC shot 63 free throws to 22 for State .Don’t think I would complain about the officiating.

That alone should all but guarantee 2 Ws.

 

[DaSheed]

Acquaint yourselves:

 

[Psychward4]

'coaching-change nonsense'

What would need to happen, over how many seasons, before it would no longer be nonsense to speak about the need to make a coaching change?

My goodness--Matt Doherty got 3 seasons, and he certainly didn't coach anybody to the championship game.

Yes, this season has been a huge disappointment thus far. Let's be patient and let the man learn.

 

[Quest4Seven]

You were one of the more adamant posters proclaiming this would no longer be Carolina basketball if we hired outside the family. Has your stance changed? I cant imagine Kansas regrets hiring Bill Self instead of Jerod Hasse or Danny Manning

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

I’m willing to give Herbert the benefit of the doubt , he needs 4-5 seasons for a fair shake at it. That being said he did him a self a true disservice by letting Steve Robinson go and not hiring an Assistant coach who has been through it all. But this core group of players has never meshed that well aside from a couple weeks in late march/April. It’s the same team that broke Roy. I’m ready for a reset for next year even if that means that team only has first weekend tourney potential. It’s the end of year two and we have no idea what Dunn and Styles can bring to the table , same with the freshman. They have not gotten nearly enough run to really give a good idea of what they will be. Seems like next year will be transition year and then we will have the big class coming in for a legit run at it

4-5 seasons? Lol.. did Gillispie get that at Kentucky? Elite programs don't let this go on that long unless they want to be the new Indiana or UConn.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Refs refs refs!

Why can't we hold coaches and players accountable!

We made 8 more free-throws than state took, just stop!

 

[WoadBlue]

My goodness--Matt Doherty got 3 seasons, and he certainly didn't coach anybody to the championship game.

Yes, this season has been a huge disappointment thus far. Let's be patient and let the man learn.

Are you under the impression that I wrote to fire Davis now? I asked Gary-7 what are his criteria for when it be acceptable to start talking about a need to replace Davis. I do think that is very important, fort all to know. Some fans might be OK with Davis returning for Year 4 if he misses the NCAA this season and next season.

But when you hire a person for a job that is not entry level so he can learn in the job, you are asking for a lot of failure or at least mediocrity.

 

[WoadBlue]

4-5 seasons? Lol.. did Gillispie get that at Kentucky? Elite programs don't let this go on that long unless they want to be the new Indiana or UConn.

Correct.

UNC football fans have a long history of expecting the admin to keep weak football coaches, but this is new that UNC basketball fans seem to be largely OK with mediocrity for a few years as long as it is an alum producing it.

Top programs will not stay Top if they tolerate mediocrity for long.

 

[al would]

Interesting you didn't address the lack of bench use or the usual guard hero ball and some of their driving in to no mans land but I'm tired of this ongoing $hit show too G .. what we have had to sit through the last 2 years, with the exception of last years MIRACLE run has been unpleasant to say the least and in my humble opinion the attitude, lack of bench development and use, along with the lack of both practice and game coaching has been something much less than impressive. On the bright side, this is only a game and there are many things more important than sports and going forward I intend to spend a lot more time away from irrelevant garbage because there's not a damn thing I can do about it.

 

[Archer2]

...and this will be very short.

I have more important things to do, and I also have little patience with the usual suspects who will use every opportunity to push coaching-change nonsense. I have been the first to say that the staff is not having a good season, and I'll comment on what I think needs to be fixed, but using current woes to push tired anti-UNC-family agendas is just a waste of a keyboard.

I think you're reaching here. I think criticism of this staff is warranted. They appear to be in over their collective heads. I know how much you wanted to stay within the family but I'm less convinced every day that this staff has what it takes to succeed at this level.

 

[al would]

I'm less convinced every day that this staff has what it takes to succeed at this level.

Absolutely. Seems some are not seeing the HUGE ASS elephant in the room. A UNC that lost in the NCAAT final last year may not win 20 games this season and after leading the game just got their ass waxed by state. Whoa be unto those that are not blind yet still can't see.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I would definitely give Hubert more time. But you don't have to be a basketball genius to know that they have a lot of work to do. If they don't figure out what's wrong, we face a troubling future.

Next year will tell us a lot. We probably won't have as much talent. But if we have learned, the pieces may fit better.

We all know that Bacot could return. But if you've heard his last few comments, he feels pretty let down. So why would he return?

Leaky graduates.

Pete graduates.

Pete's poor usage - yes, I think it's more poor usage as opposed to poor performance - could be off-putting when Hubert goes to the portal this time.

I think our transfers - if there are any - will tell us the story. If guys we don't think are a problem decide to leave, that could be a vote of no-confidence in the coaching staff. If they all seem eager to return, that woud be a vote of confidence.

Until then, it's not too late to turn in a great finish. Maybe a trip to the NCAAT. Maybe the NIT. Or we could continue to play us from preseason #1 to postseason no-show. Has that ever happened before?

 

[strummingram]

Interesting you didn't address the lack of bench use or the usual guard hero ball and some of their driving in to no mans land but I'm tired of this ongoing $hit show too G .. what we have had to sit through the last 2 years, with the exception of last years MIRACLE run has been unpleasant to say the least and in my humble opinion the attitude, lack of bench development and use, along with the lack of both practice and game coaching has been something much less than impressive. On the bright side, this is only a game and there are many things more important than sports and going forward I intend to spend a lot more time away from irrelevant garbage because there's not a damn thing I can do about it.

more than 2 years... more like 4

 

[dtodd4475]

RJ REALLY struggled. Not much time left, this team can still finish strong though, Duke and Virginia at home are key games. Avoid a bad loss on the road against the lesser teams left, and they will be on the right side of the bubble come ACC tourney time.

Knowing that last year we were in basically the same spot with two weeks to go gives some hope for lightning to strike twice. Not much room for error though at this point.

 

[al would]

gives some hope for lightning to strike twice

Hope is the final desperate emotion for those that made no other options for themselves ..

 

[gteeitup]

RJ REALLY struggled. Not much time left, this team can still finish strong though, Duke and Virginia at home are key games. Avoid a bad loss on the road against the lesser teams left, and they will be on the right side of the bubble come ACC tourney time.

Knowing that last year we were in basically the same spot with two weeks to go gives some hope for lightning to strike twice. Not much room for error though at this point.

i kinda feel like this with this particular squad…just win out and show well in the acct if we want this extended lol.

having said that, maybe couch time in march is what this program needs right now…i for one still don’t understand the rotation or why we don’t press more.

 

[sdingeldein]

In the 2 games versus State UNC shot 63 free throws to 22 for State .Don’t think I would complain about the officiating.

That disparity was huge in the first game. We should have won the game but this was some of the worst officiating I've seen this year, and that includes a LOT of badly officiated games.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Where was the tweak today? Was it just the quick substitutions at the beginning of the game that really did nothing?? Nickel still got minimal playing time, Puff got his usual minutes, and Trimble barely played at all either.. maybe they're injured, but I never seen Dunn or Washington, so all that BS substitutions at the beginning was really just for show as the rotation was still very short.

A real tweak is taking Nance completely out of the lineup and only giving him 10mpg to give Bacot and the 4 spot a test when needed. Nance is freaking TERRIBLE. He is a role player if I've ever seen one. He should be ashamed to have that last name. He may be a good kid, but that doesn't mean he's a good basketball player.

 

[midline]

This teams play is really not much more than a continuation of the mangled efforts seen most of last year. Then at the end of the year they played well twice against Duke, and got some lucky breaks in the NCAA. In that I mean they somehow caught a St Peters team in the round of 16 that finally ran out of magic. And against UCLA, UNC was dead in the water, until Caleb just went unconscious and began hitting those wild shots that 95% of the time are possession killers that we all gripe about on here. Otherwise, this year hasn’t been much different than last year. Except for the presence of Manik. I think we can all agree that Nance brings little to the table and certainly doesn’t have the shooting skills that Manik did to nail the three and open up the offensive lanes for others was Manik did. But we got ranked #1 because of that run and because UNC has a team that is a veteran team, stocked with highly ranked recruits, that should be more mature than most any team in this new era of immediate transfers. Yet we have the blaring inconsistency in many areas. Look at yesterday. NC State has two guards that UNV didn’t even sniff in recruiting, but they totally outplayed our highly recruited guards. And State played with much more emotion and intensity. This team continually seems to have the attitude that they hear how talented they are supposed to be and just figure they can wander out on the court and the opposition will just roll over. That isn’t happening. And then Hubert’s Groundhog Day presser will follow talking about how they are going to keep working to straighten things out. Been hearing that since December. Maybe it is time to change the approach being taken in that pursuit. Some folks are assistants and just can’t make the transition to being a head coach. Maybe that is where we find ourselves with Hubert. I don’t know. But I do know this. UNC is supposed to be a blue blood. I don’t expect a change this year, but if things don’t improve dramatically next year, changes need to be made. Now I know many who want to protect Hubert at all cost because he has the UNC pedigree and was hand picked by Roy to take over the program. But UNC basketball is about winning. Or should be. Anything else is unacceptable

 

[Bubspub88]

By far the most disappointing season I can recall. Past years with similar records I could chalk it up to injuries or just a lack of talent. This year has been relatively injury-free (with the exception of Washington who missed a lot of time early) and the talent seemed to be there. In most games UNC has been out-played and out-coached. There has been no bench development and still appears to be no accountability.

My investment is as a fan and I am sick of it. If I was a player who was proud to be a part of what Coach Smith created I would be outraged. The hallmarks of UNC used to be solid defense, transition and execution. I do not recognize the basketball played by this team.

I hope they decline the NIT. I am ready for this season to be done and for this core group to move on. I just hope the committed players remain so. And once they arrive they remain committed. Every person affiliated with this team needs to look in the mirror and ask if they have given their absolute best, and when they answer no they need to decide moving forward are they going to give 100% or move on.

I will give Hubert time to see what he does with his players but so far the shoes have been too big.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Where was the tweak today? Was it just the quick substitutions at the beginning of the game that really did nothing?

I'm not knowledgeable enough to say the increased rotation early on did nothing, but I was glad to see it. Obviously it didn't lead to a win. But I still think it's the right way to go.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

RJ REALLY struggled. Not much time left, this team can still finish strong though, Duke and Virginia at home are key games. Avoid a bad loss on the road against the lesser teams left, and they will be on the right side of the bubble come ACC tourney time.

Knowing that last year we were in basically the same spot with two weeks to go gives some hope for lightning to strike twice. Not much room for error though at this point.

For the last 2 years, I've felt that RJ and Armando were our toughest warriors. Not to denigrate anyone else, but they always came to play. The didn't always have a great game, but they always gave great effort and showed a strong heart.

I fear a bit of that heart has gone out of them just lately. And - here's the thing - I can't blame them.

What I do feel sure about is that they will still give 100%. And maybe we'll catch fire and all will be well. But I'm not expecting that to happen.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

I don't understand why people are okay with letting Hubert get his own players?? His own players aren't going to change the way he coaches or the way he subs.. he's a poor game manager, regardless of the players he has.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I don't understand why people are okay with letting Hubert get his own players?? His own players aren't going to change the way he coaches or the way he subs.. he's a poor game manager, regardless of the players he has.

The hope is that Wilcher and the 2024 class will fit what he wants to do so much better than some of the current crew that our expectations of excellence will be reaffirmed.

The worry is that Hubert was probably totally on board with every player we have now. If so, he's already working with his own players.

It's interesting to notice that Scheyer is getting to work mostly with his own players in his first year. Or is he? And he will definitely have his own people in his 2nd year. It's already interesting to compare their first years as head coaches.

Currently Duke is 19-8. Which is exactly the same as our record a year ago with 4 games left in the regular season. Hard to imagine Duke will put together a run as good as ours last season, but who knows?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We played State even during the first half and then smacked them in the 3rd quarter (23-16), only to blow it in the 4th quarter (15-29). Yes, they nearly doubled our production in the 4th quarter.

I usually take winning the 3rd quarter (especially in a close game) to be a sign of superior halftime coaching. But what does it mean when we blow it in the 4th quarter?

 

[DSouthr]

Tim Tebo, that dude looked the part of a great QB, great size, strong build, great attitude, great young man... Problem was he just couldn't pass. I look at this team and I see Tim Tebo, they look the part they just can't play the part. We have a scheme that is built for jump shooters that requires at a min 3 really good jump shooters, a ball handler that can beat his man at very least when given a strong pick, and a big man down low.

Now with our team, by the way we continue to play it says that RJ is the ball handler that can beat his man consistently with his dribble even if it has to come from off screens, that is the guy that has to make the quick decision who to kick it back out to (a spot up jump shooter who has been left open as his defender goes to double either the ball or Bacot), who to slip it to (Bacot or a cutter), or can finish at the rim. RJ isn't that, he is a solid jump shooter when he can get space, he is not over quick or fast and is under sized. His decision making is spotty meaning inconsistent, he elects to try to finish at the rim way more than to find the open guys off his drives and that is opposite to what you need in this scheme.

Caleb is the definition of a streaky shooter, he is not a knock down jump shooter, seems to need to add degree of difficulty. That is kind of not what you need from the guy that should be your primary kick out to splash guy.

Leaky is a great defender but still a liability in this type of offense because his defender is going to be able to release and go double elsewhere, this alone is a major obstacle to playing the 4 out spread offense.

Nance, IMO the weakest spot we have on the floor, I don't care what he did at NW last season, he is not a knock down jump shooter from outside, he is pretty good at the mid range jumpers but the 4 out stuff does not feature mid ranger shooting. In every game so far it looks like nance is either over powered or out quicked. I can't come up with 1 good reason the kid is starting.

Bacot, really fits most any offense you put him in but because we have so many misfits he is constantly double and triple teamed and it is wearing on him.

There is your starting line up and it is my opinion that they just don't fit the scheme Hubert seems to want to run. I don't think it helps to be screaming out so many set plays nearly every trip down court, let them play, calling so many set plays has them thinking to much, kind of robotic actually. You just ran the same set play 4 times in a row, you think the defenders do not know what is coming? LOL

This team is built to play more as Roy's teams did, get the ball out and run run run because they are athletic. Use more of the high low with BOTH our big man spots, set screen after screen after screen with ALL PLAYERS MOVING, motion offense, as some may want to call it, bumper pool offense. LESS, FAR LESS dribbling the ball and doing really nothing of value, move the ball with quick passing, that forces defenses to move, we are awful at forcing defenses to move or need to adjust.

 

[dtodd4475]

For the last 2 years, I've felt that RJ and Armando were our toughest warriors. Not to denigrate anyone else, but they always came to play. The didn't always have a great game, but they always gave great effort and showed a strong heart.

I fear a bit of that heart has gone out of them just lately. And - here's the thing - I can't blame them.

What I do feel sure about is that they will still give 100%. And maybe we'll catch fire and all will be well. But I'm not expecting that to happen.

I do not doubt RJ's toughness at all. We are a poor shooting team from beyond the 3 line, he is vital in that area, and has had some really rough games lately, NC State being the latest.

If he has lost some heart, which I do not believe, I certainly would hold that against him. He plays hard and has been banged up, his body may be less then 100, but that team and staff has never wavered being behind him. I do not see any lack of heart, frustration with his struggles and the teams, yes, but that doesn't equate to him losing heart so to speak.

As you and others have stated they need to knock down some 3's. Teams are doubling Mando, and will continue to if we continue to be bottom of the barrel at keeping defenses honest with some 3 balls.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I do not doubt RJ's toughness at all. We are a poor shooting team from beyond the 3 line, he is vital in that area, and has had some really rough games lately, NC State being the latest.

If he has lost some heart, which I do not believe, I certainly would hold that against him. He plays hard and has been banged up, his body may be less then 100, but that team and staff has never wavered being behind him. I do not see any lack of heart, frustration with his struggles and the teams, yes, but that doesn't equate to him losing heart so to speak.

As you and others have stated they need to knock down some 3's. Teams are doubling Mando, and will continue to if we continue to be bottom of the barrel at keeping defenses honest with some 3 balls.

"Heart" may not have been the best word choice on my part. Whereas I used to see determination and sometimes joy on the faces of Armando and RJ, they still give the effort, but sometimes the expression on their faces is more like "WTF?" I don't think they are enjoying it as much as they did, or should.

 

[rexerdog]

We played State even during the first half and then smacked them in the 3rd quarter (23-16), only to blow it in the 4th quarter (15-29). Yes, they nearly doubled our production in the 4th quarter.

I usually take winning the 3rd quarter (especially in a close game) to be a sign of superior halftime coaching. But what does it mean when we blow it in the 4th quarter?

I know nothing about nothing, but I keep thinking late game mental mistakes, and missed shots (including layups and free throws) come back to fatigue. playing 5 guys the whole 2nd half of every game is baffling to me. this team has enough depth for our starters to be fresh at the end of games and perhaps perform better.

 

[TarHeelMark]

fatigue

I can totally see that. Hubert usually subs in first half, but very little in the 2nd. How many games have we lost this year in the last few minutes? It feels like all but 2 or 3 we were right there but couldn't close the deal, so fatigue could definitely be a factor.

 

[dtodd4475]

"Heart" may not have been the best word choice on my part. Whereas I used to see determination and sometimes joy on the faces of Armando and RJ, they still give the effort, but sometimes the expression on their faces is more like "WTF?" I don't think they are enjoying it as much as they did, or should.

That's called "the struggle" yeah it's frustrating when you are coming up short. RJ has been awful, Mando is being doubled in large part because RJ has been awful. No shit, WTF looks is what is expected when you are losing. It's easy when things are going well, not enjoying losing is a normal response. How should they look ??

 

[Archer2]

I can totally see that. Hubert usually subs in first half, but very little in the 2nd. How many games have we lost this year in the last few minutes? It feels like all but 2 or 3 we were right there but couldn't close the deal, so fatigue could definitely be a factor.

We routinely accused Krazywhiskey the last 10 years of not developing his bench and running the legs off of his team by tournament time. Also of living and dying by the three. Now we are doing the same thing. Oh the freaking irony.

 

[heels05champs]

We routinely accused Krazywhiskey the last 10 years of not developing his bench and running the legs off of his team by tournament time. Also of living and dying by the three. Now we are doing the same thing. Oh the freaking irony.

Ironic isn’t it?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

RJ has been awful

I strongly disagree.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

I strongly disagree.

RJ hasn't been awful but he hasn't been that lethal scorer that I would've expected him to be after what he did in high school. He is inconsistent at times and doesn't always look to score. We need Love, Davis, and Bacot to score as many as possible considering Black, Nance, and Trimble are basically nonexistent for the most part.