Wojcik, Cadeau, and Trimble +/- last night

[Heelicious]

I was going to say something similar. I'm no BB guru by any means but I did see the game, and what I saw was basketballs not going through the hoop. We had our shots, regardless of who happened to be in the game. And sometimes when we didn't, we took them anyway. I will never criticize RJ for a bad night, because his good ones are why we were even there to begin with. It isn't about RJ, but had RJ been on we'd still be dancing.

What had me ready to obliterate my TV was what has been my gripe all season, and I mentioned it earlier in the season somewhere here. Those missed shots around the rim make me go insane. Those little putbacks. Putting it on the backboard instead of slamming it home (and missing it when we did slam it). Losing poise and tossing it at the hole instead of shooting it. Two of those made and we'd be singing a different song today..

I know they were very physical under there but that's no surprise, that's where things get physical.

Amen @bluetoe

And I’m biased but it seems to be an issue to UNC. Bacot will be the all time king of missed dunks and layups and 2 foot shots…continued that last night.

But it wasn’t just him. HI is a great athlete but why doesn’t he go hard to the hole take his time and attempt to dunk it early in the game - imstead of having his layup blocked from behind.

I’m not necessarily expecting rj and ec to dunk everything but I think sometimes they rush the finish or go too far in among big guys instead of taking / making a 6-8 footer or slow down a split second and focus on putting the ball on the square on the glass

 

[bluetoe]

Amen @bluetoe

And I’m biased but it seems to be an issue to UNC. Bacot will be the all time king of missed dunks and layups and 2 foot shots…continued that last night.

But it wasn’t just him. HI is a great athlete but why doesn’t he go hard to the hole take his time and attempt to dunk it early in the game - imstead of having his layup blocked from behind.

I’m not necessarily expecting rj and ec to dunk everything but I think sometimes they rush the finish or go too far in among big guys instead of taking / making a 6-8 footer or slow down a split second and focus on putting the ball on the square on the glass

yeah, I was talking more about the trees than the shrubs. RJ usually makes good choices, and Cadeau is a project in that respect, but he has shown flashes of future brilliance. He'll get there.

I made this about the shots and not the players because I didn't want to diminish their contributions overall, but yeah Bacot was who mostly frustrated me, but it wasn't just him as you say,. And my frustration really isn't with Bacot so much as it is with the coaching. This has been a burr under the saddle for me for a long time, am I the only one who sees it? Should I be coaching our bigs?

 

[CarolinaBlue5]

Wojcik +9
Cadeau -10
Trimble -7


So everyone can stop with the "why did Wojcik play so much over Cadeau and Trimble" nonsense. In last night's game we were simply better with Wojcik on the floor.

+\-is the dumbest stat ever created! Did you watch the game?

 

[DaveChapelle]

+\-is the dumbest stat ever created! Did you watch the game?

Yup. Like everyone else I watched us play our best basketball last night with Wojcik on the floor.

 

[tarheel0910]

Interesting thread. This is actually the first time I've read anyone say Hubert made the right move. It's pretty obvious that it was wrong. He did a great job this year, but he just tried to out think himself in the second half. Hopefully he learns from it.

 

[DaveChapelle]

We scored 31 points in the first half with Cadeau and Trimble on the floor. From the 5:55 mark through the final seconds of the first half, UNC didn't have Cadeau or Trimble on the floor.

In those 5:52, UNC scored 23 points.
By my count: 9/14 FG, 5/7 3PT

There's 0 debate that UNC played better with Wojcik on the floor than Cadeau. Whether that means you're ok with Wojcik playing more than Cadeau despite that... That's up to everyone's individual opinion.

Numbers don't lie. Kind of weird how no one wants to address the facts Nathan posted.

 

[CarolinaBlue5]

Numbers don't lie. Kind of weird how no one wants to address the facts Nathan posted.

Kind of weird how we lost the game and looked like shit with Wojick on the court! Dave or Kylie Jenner? Which celebrity are you?

 

[DaveChapelle]

Kind of weird how we lost the game and looked like shit with Wojick on the court!

Except we literally played our best basketball last night with Wojcik on the floor.

I guess I'll need to remember moving forward that you don't understand the game of basketball and can't comprehend what you are watching.

I spent the whole season yelling "get Wojcik off the floor," and yet I have enough grace to admit that we clearly played our best basketball with him on the floor last night. Because it's not even remotely up for debate. The film shows it and the metrics show it. But once again, you won't even address what Nathan posted bc then you'd be force to admit the truth.

 

[gary-7]

Cadeau did in fact have the worst +/- on the team last night.

That's not an indictment of Cadeau. Alabama simply decided not to guard him on the perimeter, and it hurt us. Same for Trimble. Hopefully they both use it as motivation to work hard on their perimeter games this offseason.

Wojcik had the best +/- last night. Our team played its absolute best when he was on the floor. It wasn't because he suddenly became a great player. It was simply bc Bama chose to guard him at the 3pt line and that opened up everything for the other players. The only time RJ was successful at driving for layups and drawing shooting fouls was when Wojcik was on the floor, bc the floor was spaced better.

Brother, you are usually on point, bur not in this case. Yes, bama was playing off Eliot and Seth and those guys made them pay with 4 3s between them (which is 4 more than our POY made).

Look, I agree that Pax played well, but it didn't ultimately help RJ. who barely got even a decent 3-ball look in the 2nd half. Yes, RJ got some drives, but more because we adjusted our motion off screens to get him downhill and into P&Rs --- which was the only way to get anything without our PG on the floor.

As for the +/-, as I have always said, that has to be viewed in CONTEXT, and Eliot's was skewed by happening to be on the floor when bama came out of the locker room hot (thru no fault of his), and mostly by only playing (an unthinkable) 13 minutes. The entirety of this season has shown that, given minutes, he will move that + column pretty consistently and impactfully, given that he came in with the best +/- rate on the team.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Think if he coached scared he wouldn't have had the balls to make that adjustment. Seems like the direct opposite. You feel like he took a risk he shouldn't have.

I still don't see it. Cadeau was entirely neutralized. The only way I could see keeping cadeau in was to move RJ to the point and have Cadeau just backdoor cut a ton. But, that's hard also cuz they are just gonna camp in the lane the whole time and congest everything and that will never be open. He can't drive past his defender when they frankly just stay that far down.

People dared him to shoot all year, but nobody straight up just ignored him basically the way Alabama did last night.

EC was 2-5 from 3, with 8 points in 13 minutes I would take my chances with him everyday. Hardly neutralized IMO, he didn't get enough minutes to see what he or the team would do if he gets his normal minutes. It wasn't broke and we tried to fix it, Oats had a game plan and Hubert fell right into it, with a huge over reaction as a counter to that game plan.

 

[bluetoe]

As for the +/-, as I have always said, that has to be viewed in CONTEXT,

and THAT is what no one seems to be considering. Stats are meaningless without context, and context can be pretty complex.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

I know I’m just one guy and to each his own but I hate +/- It is so hard to take into account what other people are in game at that point, and circumstances of others on the court same time as you. Are the other 4 making or missing shots, getting torched on defense. Etc. nothing to do with that player. If you could do +/- on one on one games or even look at +/- of individual player vs player matchups in the game, that would be more meaningful. I know youn can’t do that.

But I put more credence in - say a guy on opposing team is hot and we bring in Seth or Cormac or withers to shut him down. How much does that guy score from there on? Same with if an advantage arises on offensive end due to opposing player fouls or lesser talent. How does -‘say - bacot or HI exploit that one on one advantage

Perfect post Heelicious...a team could go on a run of paint points and not one bucket scored on you by your assignment on the perimeter and your time in the court could be analyzed as negative....

 

[big_deez]

Wojcik +9
Cadeau -10
Trimble -7


So everyone can stop with the "why did Wojcik play so much over Cadeau and Trimble" nonsense. In last night's game we were simply better with Wojcik on the floor.

Maybe so, that's one way to look at it. However, as others have mentioned, having your best 5 at the end of this type of game simply gives you the best shot. It's literally what got you to this point along with the 3 or 4 subs stepping in and performing their roles. In my opinion missing so many shots that this group normally make was the difference. Also, is it just weird that Love and Davis had similar shooting patterns?

 

[NathanFielder]

Perfect post Heelicious...a team could go on a run of paint points and not one bucket scored on you by your assignment on the perimeter and your time in the court could be analyzed as negative....

I think there is more “context” to back up +/- in this game because the vast majority of Alabama’s action revolves around the perimeter. They’re not going to throw the ball in the block and didn’t until deeper into the second half.

It’s also why I pointed out that UNC scored 17 points in the first half with Cadeau on the floor. There’s less context required there because he’s the PG so he’ll have influence on almost every possession.

In the first half, UNC was definitively better offensively without Cadeau. That’s just a fact. I’m not going to just assume things would’ve been different in the second half. Even though I would’ve played Cadeau the entire second half. I would take my chances with him and live with the results.

 

[imajericho]

Maybe so, that's one way to look at it. However, as others have mentioned, having your best 5 at the end of this type of game simply gives you the best shot. It's literally what got you to this point along with the 3 or 4 subs stepping in and performing their roles. In my opinion missing so many shots that this group normally make was the difference. Also, is it just weird that Love and Davis had similar shooting patterns?

I think Davis got overconfident as the season went on. If you watch, he shoots primarily step back good motion 3s most the beginning of the season. In the last 10-15 games though he begins shooting more off center and leaning in 3s... almost to the point of being a floater 3 on some of them. To be fair, he was still hitting despite this move away from his mechanics. I always felt that maybe that would catch up to him however. Unfortunately it did.

 

[Heels5150]

This was on Hubert. When RJ was clearly having an off night Hubert put more pressure on RJ and the team by sitting Elliot. We can all debate this until the end of time but at least why didn’t Hubert insert Elliot back into the game when we were down 2 with 30 plus seconds to go? Run an offensive set instead of reverting to last years plays of dribbling the ball into the ground until the shot clock gets below 8 seconds and then try a prayer. I know they were hoping at least RJ would get fouled and go to the free throw line but unfortunately that didn’t happen either. We literally beat ourselves and lost to another scum program like Oats and Alabama. Our transition defense was also absolutely abysmal.