Is Mr. Floyd's Death Being Used To Change All Of Society?

[bluetoe]

so you’re raising the possibility that chauvin exerted the proper pressure to pin Floyd down without restricting his air flow? Maybe he had that magic pressure sensing device?

First of all, you would have to be a complete moron to think that ANY amount of pressure on the neck, no matter how slight, would restrict a person's airflow. But regardless of that, all that needed to be done with that tub of lard was to BAR his ability to get up, and there were other officers assisting in that endeavor. If you're truly too stupid to understand that, let's stop wasting time. Now please tell me what magic pressure-sensing device you have that informs you that ANY pressure was being applied to Floyd's neck, let alone windpipe-crushing or even just airflow-restricting pressure. Absent such a device, please tell me how any human being on the planet could tell by direct visual observation, let alone second hand video viewing, the amount of pressure IF ANY was being applied. How does that work, exactly?

It doesn't. But you know what always comes through in a pinch when you are being subjective? When you already have your mind made up? Presumption. Presumption lends itself to whatever argument you want to put forth. But presumption is not a substitute for reason and objectivity.

 

[bluetoe]

Well, we do know that Chauvin attempted to PLEAD GUILTY to 3rd-degree murder to avoid a trial. That plea deal fell apart. Derek Chauvin basically admitted to killing George Floyd (in a 3rd degree manner, legally). Pleading guilty is about as incriminating as it gets. Derek Chauvin probably doesn't understand why you don't have a clue as to why he murdered George Floyd.

wait, are you saying that someone might plead guilty to the lesser of offenses being proposed as part of a plea deal, when almost the entire world has formed a virtual lynch mob calling for every book in the law library to be thrown at him? And that this plea is a sure indicator of guilt? I guess you're right, I'm sure no innocent person has ever been intimidated into taking a plea deal when the threat of life behind bars is looming.

By God I guess that proves it then, the sonofabitch must be guilty as hell. Good job, Perry Mason.

 

[tarheel0910]

so you’re raising the possibility that chauvin exerted the proper pressure to pin Floyd down without restricting his air flow? Maybe he had that magic pressure sensing device?

I did see where there was an expert that testified as to how much pressure he actually put on him. Thought it was pretty interesting that he was able to calculate that.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I didn't pay any attention at all to the trial so forgive my ignorance here but what does the conviction mean? What's the sentence assuming that the appeal doesn't overturn the conviction? I'm betting that at least one of the convictions is overturned during the appeal. I think the powers-that-be just threw the book at him to settle the natives but they know at least some of it will be overturned through the appeal after the fake mad people move on to something else to be mad about.

 

[uncfootball-]

I dont think there is any one on the planet that would say that Chauvin acted responsible during this traffic altercation. Some of his past actions have shown him to be a jerk. Even with that you still have to look at the facts with this case and to me there is not crystal clear evidence of what killed Floyd. Assuming the drugs did or didnt play a part or assuming his kneeling was or was not restricting air flow is a lot of assuming.

 

[tarheel0910]

I didn't pay any attention at all to the trial so forgive my ignorance here but what does the conviction mean? What's the sentence assuming that the appeal doesn't overturn the conviction? I'm betting that at least one of the convictions is overturned during the appeal. I think the powers-that-be just threw the book at him to settle the natives but they know at least some of it will be overturned through the appeal after the fake mad people move on to something else to be mad about.

I think the minimum is 12 years, max 40.

 

[uncfootball-]

One a side note last night so many from the left, including Biden and Heels up Harris, made this case all about race. Pelosi even thanked George Floyd for dying. Weird on a first degree level.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I dont think there is any one on the planet that would say that Chauvin acted responsible during this traffic altercation. Some of his past actions have shown him to be a jerk. Even with that you still have to look at the facts with this case and to me there is not crystal clear evidence of what killed Floyd. Assuming the drugs did or didnt play a part or assuming his kneeling was or was not restricting air flow is a lot of assuming.

Right. I like seeing people held accountable. My biggest issue was the larger ramifications that come from this. Now we've reinforced rioting and violence as a response to something you don't like. That's dangerous.

 

[bluetoe]

I did see where there was an expert that testified as to how much pressure he actually put on him. Thought it was pretty interesting that he was able to calculate that.

He wasn't able to calculate that. You're talking about Tobin, who suggested that at one point Floyd was trying to breathe through his fingers and knuckles. He was guessing, and basing that guess on assumptions made about how much weight Chauvin was bearing on his left leg compared to his right leg. He was a witness brought on board to verify the prosecution's contention, not to ascertain the truth of the matter.

 

[gunslingerdick]

This is exactly what the problem is, people like yourself who clearly see the situation right in front of their eyes. And find justification in how the cop handled it. Do u have any moral fiber in ur soul or just because this human being had numerous faults. He died because of another's choice and u refuse to acknowledge the truth right in front of your face. Wow! Where is your humanity and morals and scruples. Or do they apply only when it's someone who looks like you do,get murdered ? I condemn anybody black, blue, white , whatever.wgo systematically takes another man's life just because this system in this country , regardless if u wanna except it or not had been and still is set up to not include us "Americans" in the whole of the fabric of the nation and say we re wrong for calling a spd a spade. Let go of the racist, semiatic , homophobic, Anti feministic , views. Or people like yourself, gonna be left behind soon to be extinct. The old boy network is slowly but surely, dying out and your grip on power is deminishing by the day.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Maxine Waters', Biden’s pre-Chauvin verdict comments come under scrutiny as defense eyes appeal

Derek Chauvin's murder conviction was met with widespread approval among those seeking justice for George Floyd, but the trial's outcome may not be set in stone thanks to remarks from influential political leaders such as Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., and President Biden himself.

www.foxnews.com

 

[uncfootball-]

This may the weirdest, most weird, super duper weird-a-rama.. however you want to say it, thing that I have ever heard.

 

[blazers]

wait, are you saying that someone might plead guilty to the lesser of offenses being proposed as part of a plea deal, when almost the entire world has formed a virtual lynch mob calling for every book in the law library to be thrown at him? And that this plea is a sure indicator of guilt? I guess you're right, I'm sure no innocent person has ever been intimidated into taking a plea deal when the threat of life behind bars is looming.

By God I guess that proves it then, the sonofabitch must be guilty as hell. Good job, Perry Mason.

But cop convictions are insanely rare. The plea deals that are part of the cog in the regular criminal justice system probably don't apply as well to circumstances involving cops.

 

[heelmanwilm]

it does, actually...testimony provided proved that.

he went beyond what a “reasonable officer” would do and officers testified to that.

the only question you should have is “how can i believe anything else if i kept up with the trial?”

“they didn’t prove a cause of death!”

“did you view the evidence presented?”

“no but it wasn’t enough!”

First of all, you would have to be a complete moron to think that ANY amount of pressure on the neck, no matter how slight, would restrict a person's airflow. But regardless of that, all that needed to be done with that tub of lard was to BAR his ability to get up, and there were other officers assisting in that endeavor. If you're truly too stupid to understand that, let's stop wasting time. Now please tell me what magic pressure-sensing device you have that informs you that ANY pressure was being applied to Floyd's neck, let alone windpipe-crushing or even just airflow-restricting pressure. Absent such a device, please tell me how any human being on the planet could tell by direct visual observation, let alone second hand video viewing, the amount of pressure IF ANY was being applied. How does that work, exactly?

It doesn't. But you know what always comes through in a pinch when you are being subjective? When you already have your mind made up? Presumption. Presumption lends itself to whatever argument you want to put forth. But presumption is not a substitute for reason and objectivity.

dude go fuk yourself. I simply asked a question and jabbed a little humor for Chris sakes. lol I haven’t presumed a goodamned thing nor passed judgement on chauvin or the verdict. I wasn’t in the courtroom nor have I followed all the testimony. If you’re such a fuking pusssy you can’t take a little kidding then maybe you should stay at home
Nancy.

 

[strummingram]

wait, are you saying that someone might plead guilty to the lesser of offenses being proposed as part of a plea deal, when almost the entire world has formed a virtual lynch mob calling for every book in the law library to be thrown at him? And that this plea is a sure indicator of guilt? I guess you're right, I'm sure no innocent person has ever been intimidated into taking a plea deal when the threat of life behind bars is looming.

By God I guess that proves it then, the sonofabitch must be guilty as hell. Good job, Perry Mason.

I can't comment on what someone might do. I'm pointing out what Derek Chauvin actually did. If someone is absolutely innocent and they are willing to plead guilty... then, by law, they're not innocent. They are, in fact, absolutely guilty.

I'll send you my bill.

 

[bluetoe]

I can't comment on what someone might do. I'm pointing out what Derek Chauvin actually did. If someone is absolutely innocent and they are willing to plead guilty... then, by law, they're not innocent. They are, in fact, absolutely guilty.

I'll send you my bill.

do your best George Floyd imitation until I pay it. And this is what you said..."Derek Chauvin basically admitted to killing George Floyd (in a 3rd degree manner, legally). Pleading guilty is about as incriminating as it gets."

So try again, but do better this time.

 

[bluetoe]

“they didn’t prove a cause of death!”

“did you view the evidence presented?”

“no but it wasn’t enough!”

dude go fuk yourself. I simply asked a question and jabbed a little humor for Chris sakes. lol I haven’t presumed a goodamned thing nor passed judgement on chauvin or the verdict. I wasn’t in the courtroom nor have I followed all the testimony. If you’re such a fuking pusssy you can’t take a little kidding then maybe you should stay at home
Nancy.

oh, I was just kidding too. Cant you take a joke, Karen?

 

[bluetoe]

But cop convictions are insanely rare. The plea deals that are part of the cog in the regular criminal justice system probably don't apply as well to circumstances involving cops.

they apply to circumstances where the defendant is very likely going to get screwed, cop or otherwise.

 

[bleeduncblue]

I think the powers-that-be just threw the book at him to settle the natives but they know at least some of it will be overturned through the appeal after the fake mad people move on to something else to be mad about.

correct. 95% of those who "care" about this outcome wouldnt even notice if Chauvin got a 5 day sentence. they will move on immediately. probably have already.

 

[strummingram]

do your best George Floyd imitation until I pay it. And this is what you said..."Derek Chauvin basically admitted to killing George Floyd (in a 3rd degree manner, legally). Pleading guilty is about as incriminating as it gets."

I agree, he is definitely guilty of murder. First, he was going to plead guilty to avoid a trial. And, then he was found guilty on all three counts IN the trial.

 

[heelmanwilm]

oh, I was just kidding too. Cant you take a joke, Karen?

Glad to hear. I was worried people actually exist that are that fuking stupid.

 

[bluetoe]

Glad to hear. I was worried people actually exist that are that fuking stupid.

they do exist. As a matter of fact I was just conversing with just such an idiot.

 

[bluetoe]

I agree, he is definitely guilty of murder. First, he was going to plead guilty to avoid a trial. And, then he was found guilty on all three counts IN the trial.

he was going to cop a plea for one lesser charge rather than face the possibility of going to trial and being convicted of that and more serious charges, a highly likely circumstance. And the point you want to avoid admitting is that innocent people faced with the same likelihoods will sometimes do exactly this.

This isn't really that hard. A plea bargain is not strictly synonymous with actual guilt, but should be thought of as playing the odds against worse outcomes.

ETA that being found guilty is also not synonymous with actual guilt.

 

[heelmanwilm]

they do exist. As a matter of fact I was just conversing with just such an idiot.

Did she lie about joking when she got owned for making dumfuk claims?

 

[bluetoe]

Did she lie about joking when she got owned for making dumfuk claims?

she probably humorously foiled such a dumfvk lie

 

[uncboy10]

They will adjust the sentencing guidelines upwards since he murdered Floyd in front of a witness who is a minor.

Let’s just hope he doesn’t Epstein himself so he has plenty of time to think about what a piece of shit he is.

 

[strummingram]

he was going to cop a plea for one lesser charge rather than face the possibility of going to trial and being convicted of that and more serious charges, a highly likely circumstance. And the point you want to avoid admitting is that innocent people faced with the same likelihoods will sometimes do exactly this.

This isn't really that hard. A plea bargain is not strictly synonymous with actual guilt, but should be thought of as playing the odds against worse outcomes.

ETA that being found guilty is also not synonymous with actual guilt.

Yes, I am fully aware that the occasional citizen will plead to a lesser charge. But, Chauvin was a police officer! And, he was a police officer who was caught on film in one of the most historically-significant phone-captured videos in criminal justice history, with his knee on the neck of a man who died after 9 minutes of this "detainment" behavior. I don't believe Chauvin was maliciously trying to "murder" George Floyd, but he did murder him. He certainly, without any doubt, directly-contributed to his death. If Chauvin doesn't kneel on his neck, he wouldn't have died in that situation. That is one reason why he was found guilty by the jury, and why he wanted to plead guilty! He KNEW he was responsible!

 

[gunslingerdick]

... in one of the most historically-significant phone-captured videos in criminal justice history,

Just for the record, can you name the other most historically-significant, phone-captured videos in criminal justice history? I just want to see how it measures up against the other top contenders. TIA.

 

[strummingram]

Just for the record, can you name the other most historically-significant, phone-captured videos in criminal justice history? I just want to see how it measures up against the other top contenders. TIA.

 

[chickenhunter]

I didn't pay any attention at all to the trial so forgive my ignorance here but what does the conviction mean? What's the sentence assuming that the appeal doesn't overturn the conviction? I'm betting that at least one of the convictions is overturned during the appeal. I think the powers-that-be just threw the book at him to settle the natives but they know at least some of it will be overturned through the appeal after the fake mad people move on to something else to be mad about.

It means the P'sOS in Minneapolis wont have the trial to blame for looting so they will have to come up with something else.

Not that I think Chauvin was totally innocent, I was hoping that the verdict was not guilty so that shithole for a city could burn to the ground. Was also hoping the same would happen in Seattle, Portland, Chicago, LA, and NYC. It would be like watching Sodom and Gomorrah go down in flames. What a wondrous sight it would have been!!

 

[strummingram]

It means the P'sOS in Minneapolis wont have the trial to blame for looting so they will have to come up with something else.

Not that I think Chauvin was totally innocent, I was hoping that the verdict was not guilty so that shithole for a city could burn to the ground. Was also hoping the same would happen in Seattle, Portland, Chicago, LA, and NYC. It would be like watching Sodom and Gomorrah go down in flames. What a wondrous sight it would have been!!

Here ya go:

 

[bluetoe]

Yes, I am fully aware that the occasional citizen will plead to a lesser charge. But, Chauvin was a police officer! And, he was a police officer who was caught on film in one of the most historically-significant phone-captured videos in criminal justice history, with his knee on the neck of a man who died after 9 minutes of this "detainment" behavior. I don't believe Chauvin was maliciously trying to "murder" George Floyd, but he did murder him. He certainly, without any doubt, directly-contributed to his death. If Chauvin doesn't kneel on his neck, he wouldn't have died in that situation. That is one reason why he was found guilty by the jury, and why he wanted to plead guilty! He KNEW he was responsible!

your repetitions don't make it so. All you know is that he was convicted. He very well might have contributed to Floyd's death but you can't say with any credibility that he murdered him. You can't say with any credibility that Floyd himself isn't chiefly responsible for his own death. You can't even say with any credibility that Floyd would NOT have died had Chauvin not put his knee on Floyd's neck because you can't say with any credibility that Chauvin's knee had any specific effect. Some expert testimony said it did, other expert testimony said it didn't. YOU just plain don't know.

If a cop arrests a man and that man has a heart attack and dies while the cop is putting the cuffs on him, a reasonable person wouldn't call the cop a murderer. Where Chauvin may have crossed the line into culpability isn't so easy to pin down, but people like you simply believe what they want to believe regardless. So be it. I am far more interested in the truth of the matter than pinning the label of murderer on someone whose actions took place in a gray area..

 

[bluetoe]

no, that's not it. Good guess though.

 

[uncfootball-]

I was thinking and many would say that in itself is dangerous. Suppose that BLM came out and said they demand the Federal Government start sending $1000 checks to every Black American every month or there will be riots in the streets. Cities will be looted and burned until this demand is met. How would this be handled by the Federal Government?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Your gif game needs work.

And why the hostility? You’re the one that said it was “one of the most historically-significant, phone-captured videos in criminal justice history.” I figured you’d quickly be able to tell me what other historically-significant, phone-captured videos were in the running to also be considered “one of the most significant.”

Turns out, you were just doing that thing. You know...that thing you constantly do here where you just poast incessantly without saying much of anything. You know what I’m talking about, right?

 

[strummingram]

Your gif game needs work.

And why the hostility? You’re the one that said it was “one of the most historically-significant, phone-captured videos in criminal justice history.” I figured you’d quickly be able to tell me what other historically-significant, phone-captured videos were in the running to also be considered “one of the most significant.”

Turns out, you were just doing that thing. You know...that thing you constantly do here where you just poast incessantly without saying much of anything. You know what I’m talking about, right?

That wasn't hostile. I love that gif!

 

[blazers]

he was going to cop a plea for one lesser charge rather than face the possibility of going to trial and being convicted of that and more serious charges, a highly likely circumstance. And the point you want to avoid admitting is that innocent people faced with the same likelihoods will sometimes do exactly this.

Based on history it is highly unlikely that cops get convicted. If he or his lawyer felt a conviction was highly likely, it was because they saw the blatant evidence themselves. This isn't about public opinion, it's about the eye-witness video, the witnesses, the med examiners, the other cops/emt testimony, etc.

 

[gunslingerdick]

That wasn't hostile. I love that gif!

Soooo,...will you now list the other historically-significant, phone-captured videos?

 

[uncboy10]

It means the P'sOS in Minneapolis wont have the trial to blame for looting so they will have to come up with something else.

Not that I think Chauvin was totally innocent, I was hoping that the verdict was not guilty so that shithole for a city could burn to the ground. Was also hoping the same would happen in Seattle, Portland, Chicago, LA, and NYC. It would be like watching Sodom and Gomorrah go down in flames. What a wondrous sight it would have been!!

 

[bluetoe]

Based on history it is highly unlikely that cops get convicted. If he or his lawyer felt a conviction was highly likely, it was because they saw the blatant evidence themselves. This isn't about public opinion, it's about the eye-witness video, the witnesses, the med examiners, the other cops/emt testimony, etc.

wrong. The Far Side has been looking for a perfect cause celebre for quite some time, and this turned out to be it. This cop didn't even shoot anybody, he simply restrained a guy who happened to croak out because he was a fat POS in poor condition. What anybody could see was that this cop's fate was sealed as soon as the para's couldn't find a pulse, because the media and the other usual rabble-rousers jumped straight into overdrive.

Ignore it all you want, but the county coroner made a note on his initial findings to the effect that had Floyd's death occurred at his own home, no one would have thought twice to consider it to be anything other than the death of a man in poor condition...with no indication of asphyxia being the cause of death. Yet that didn't make it to the final report. Go ahead and pretend that you don't know why. This episode has been publicized and hashed and rehashed way more than anything before it, and your denial doesn't change that. The public pressure to hang Chauvin has been overwhelming.

Just plain common sense is being completely ignored, as it usually is in these episodes of hysteria. A crowd is gathered watching a handful of cops roust a black guy, and some in the crowd are videoing the deal. Who is actually stupid enough to think that one of the cops is taking an action that he figures might very well result in the suspect's death, right there in front of God and everyone? C'mon man. This same scene has been enacted and re-enacted hundreds of times with only moderate notice if even that. The difference this time wasn't in any degree of guilt, it was in the amount of notice.