That's true. I get the feeling that Bubba is smart enough to do that.
OOTB Carolina basketball discussion thread
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Bamba interview also on Radar.
http://northcarolina.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Mohamed-Bamba-talks-recruitment-46197128
http://northcarolina.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Mohamed-Bamba-talks-recruitment-46197128
Didn't even flinch at the Tilmon news. I just assume we're not getting anyone until we do - much better on my anger level that way.
I'll assume Bamba is going somewhere else until I see him commit to UNC.
I'll assume Bamba is going somewhere else until I see him commit to UNC.
THIS is actually one commonly posted thing about Roy that I don't totally believe.
I disagree with the notion that Roy has been successful primarily because of his recruiting. At my kids swim meet now. Will break it down in more detail later.
I don't even follow basketball recruiting. Football recruiting is way more interesting to me. Basketball is way too finite of resources. With football, there's high-end talent galore as well as hidden gems galore (example: Ryan Switzer was a 3*)
Hmm....I'd like to see your breakdown with this because I disagree with your disagreement. Roy has been successful for two reasons IMO:
1). His system
2). Recruiting studs to run that system
Well that's the thing. Hidden gems are a lot harder to come across in basketball. There's a whole wealth of talent in football. In basketball, as you said, there's less to choose from.
There was a time where we could get or at least be in the running for anyone we wanted. Those days seem like a long time ago.
I don't follow any recruiting because it seems that it is rare that a player performs at projections. Brice Johnson was #43 in his class, Switzer a 3 star, etc. I just wait until they get here before I get worried about what kind of game they have.
Yes. I forgot about getting back to this.
You nailed it with #1. As I illustrated yesterday, we've not been a school that recruits and signs multiple 5 star players annually. My poast from yesterday showed that we've only had one year since Roy has been back that we have signed more than 1 top 10 player. And I think maybe 5 years where we signed more than one 5 star player. We've been a program that has gotten A- or B+ talent and kept them around long enough for them to perfect their roles and help the team run like a well oiled machine. Roy does indeed have his preferred style. And he's not straying from it. But he has been successful using that style with a variety of players. Kendall Marshall was a 4 star and ran the system to perfection. That's certainly different than having a top 10 guy like Lawson running it. So it's not necessarily dependent on getting elite athletes like so many people like to say.
Roy's best attribute as a coach is the way he prepares the team and the way he coaches over the entire season. He's not as mediocre of a game day coach as some of our fans like to point out. I have beef with his substitution patterns from time to time. But as far as his Xs and Os and drawing up plays, he's still one of the game's best. People always remember when he doesn't call a TO or doesn't guard the inbound passer and how we supposedly lost games because of it. But they don't remember the times when he switches everything on defense and we win because of it. So in addition to the myth that "Roy needs elite players to be successful", I'm also challenging the myth that Roy isn't a good "in-game" coach. But I do recognize that's not his strongest point. He's a seasonal coach. He's willing to lose a game here or there if he thinks the bigger lesson taught will be for the greater good of the season. And it has largely worked.
So I agree that Roy's success is largely attributed to the system he puts in place. And I don't just mean the style of play on the floor. I mean the whole system. The way he has shaped the program. Maybe I'm looking through tinted glasses here, but in most years, it seems that Roy is able to bring the whole team together. There's rarely strife or discontentment within the team. Guys play for each other. I'm sure other programs feel they do this well but I think it's a big part of why Roy's system works.
There was a time when not every game from pretty much every school was on TV, so we also got a lot more attention than did other schools.
I think Roy goes after OADs as hard as any other coach, but I don't think he is willing to do the things that others do- like promise time or deal with handlers for example, so he loses out on those guys.
Whatever- we had a stacked team last year and we will have one again this year. I will worry about 17 when the time comes.
Is there some doom and gloom sentiment among our fans (not you) that has people thinking that Carolina basketball isn't a on the top tier of all college basketball programs?
Yes, there is. UNC bball fans are freaking out that we may drop out of the Top 25 from time to time (oh the horror!). And then when that happens, they'll stop caring or they'll start pulling for a different team because they're a bunch of front-runners.
I promise you if we had multiple tourney-less seasons in a row (say, 4), attendance at the Dean Dome would comically bad.
Yes. There absolutely is. I guess I can expect it from rival fans (mainly duke and uk) but then our own folks feed into that notion when bemoaning our inability to sign the same kind of recruiting classes as the 2 schools mentioned above.
I'm not sure that would be any different than most teams that make the tourney annually.
I can't do football recruiting. It's too time consuming and there's just too much to try and keep up with. I pay attention a little bit I guess. But basketball recruiting is much more manageable for me.
Right, but everyone (our fans and fans of other programs and the media) makes such a huge deal of our vaunted basketball program and how we are the epitome of a basketball school with zealous, loyal passionate fans.
It's based completely on winning though. Our fans would quit it like a bad habit if we lost regularly for a few seasons in a row. The loyalty is a sham.
I wouldn’t say it is doom and gloom, it’s just the expectations some fans have today. There are people freaking out because we haven’t won a championship since 2009 or because we don’t go to the final four every other year. It’s just another example of the instant gratification culture that we have now. I’m just glad the internet and messages boards were not big when Dean was coaching. People would have been crucifying him since he “only” won 2 championships. Not only that, but we had to wait a whole decade between the two. Such horrors shouldn’t exist.
I don't disagree with that. But look at VT's football program. Hokie fans were once known as the most loyal, rabid, loudest, etc fans in college football. Then they start struggling and you see empty seats. It happens everywhere. We've just been good enough most years that our fans aren't bailing.
I wouldn’t say it is doom and gloom, it’s just the expectations some fans have today. There are people freaking out because we haven’t won a championship since 2009 or because we don’t go to the final four every other year. It’s just another example of the instant gratification culture that we have now. I’m just glad the internet and messages boards were not big when Dean was coaching. People would have been crucifying him since he “only” won 2 championships. Not only that, but we had to wait a whole decade between the two. Such horrors shouldn’t exist.
So true.
I think them bailing on the program has been exaggerated. They're still mostly there in force. No worse than 90% capacity, but your point is well received.
It doesn’t take a few seasons. I was able to get tickets within the first 10 rows at the Dean dome for almost face value during the 01-02 season. What some hardcore fans need to realize is that the majority of fans for any team are made up of bandwagon/fair weather fans. That’s why fans disappeared for the 01-02 season and that’s why Kenan is half empty.
Rightfully so. A program of UNC's caliber should never have consecutive tournament misses, let alone 4 in a row. If it got to 4, something would be drastically wrong with the program - so the fans shouldn't reward that ineptitude with their spending dollars.
But I don't necessarily refer to those types of fans as "fair weather fans". If people are traveling from an hour away or so and they're bring the fam, why do they want to go through all that cost and trouble to go watch a bad team? I get it. It's not that they're bailing or they're only fans during the good times. It's just logical that someone isn't going to put cost and time towards something when the return isn't what they want.
Good point which raises the question:
Which school has the largest % of Walmart fans?
And what, exactly, is a WalMart fan? To me it is one who will switch allegiance from one team to another. However if you are a lifelong UNC (or any other school) fan and you just quit paying as much attention if your team isn't playing to standards, then you meet the definition of casual fan.
A fair weather fan though is one who acts like the worlds greatest fan when the team is playing well but drops off the face of the earth when not.
I’m not saying that all of them are fair weather fans. Ticket prices and television have certainly hurt attendance. I used attendance as an example, but I guess I should have added that I wasn’t just talking about attendance. UNC football had a lot more "fans" last year and going into this year. Although I like our new uniforms, I doubt that’s why we saw an increase in fans.
Dook fans are different in that most of them are ABCers. They really do have a favorite team- the one most likely to beat Carolina. When dickhead retires they will go back to Moo or UVA or maybe Wake- just depends on who looks best poised to be Carolina.
Don't get me wrong, I will always support Carolina, win or lose, good years and bad years. But you at least understand why some are concerned? If we don't do something about recruiting there's a chance we could severely fall behind dook and kentucky. I don't want us to fall to obscurity because we can't get anyone supremely talented to come to Chapel Hill.
This is also my anxiety talking, which is severe enough that I take medication for.
I just don't think that will happen, because Roy can take a group of 3 stars and have them competitive enough to be a top 4 seed and from there, anything can happen.
Since the era of the OADs began with Calipari being hired at UK- OAD schools have won 2 of the 7 championships. What's the worry?
3 out of 7. Duke in 2010 and 2015, UK in 2012.
Unless you weren't counting Duke in 2010 since they hadn't really adopted the OAD philosophy at that point. But regardless, Duke x2, Uconn x2, UK, Louisville, and Villanova. All pretty well-known bball schools, even if a few of them are second/third tier. The problem is UNC isn't among that list.
Duke doesn't count in 2010. That team is in fact an argument for a senior laden team of 3 star players.
Also missing was Kansas (who got the greatest OAD ever in Wiggins),
So Carolina hasn't won a tourney in 7 years? That seems to me to be within tolerance of acceptable span, especially since we were in the final game this year and had the best team in 2012 that could only be stopped by a team of Creighton goons which started all 3 Hanson brothers.
We also were final 8 in 11 and sweet 16 in 15.
I just don't see a problem unless you view recruiting as another sport where there are winners and losers, with score being kept by number of stars, not number of wins actually delivered on the court.
Also missing was Kansas (who got the greatest OAD ever in Wiggins),
So Carolina hasn't won a tourney in 7 years? That seems to me to be within tolerance of acceptable span, especially since we were in the final game this year and had the best team in 2012 that could only be stopped by a team of Creighton goons which started all 3 Hanson brothers.
We also were final 8 in 11 and sweet 16 in 15.
I just don't see a problem unless you view recruiting as another sport where there are winners and losers, with score being kept by number of stars, not number of wins actually delivered on the court.
This is a good point, and something that we should keep in mind during recruiting season. Getting a bunch of 5 stars doesn't get you any extra W's come the actual season (although the hype from them, I'd argue, can get you into the tournament if you're on the bubble, or bumped up to the 1 line if you're on the 1/2 seed fence).
I'd be perfectly fine with getting only 3 stars and below if we still made significant runs in the tournament, and won national championships. Which, I guess to some extent, we have as you pointed out. As I said before, it's tough to knock Roy after the year he just had. But, in years we miss the tournament, or have an earlier than expected exit - it's easier to "see the light at the end of the tunnel" if you have some studs coming in the next class. It seems like if UK and Duke have disappointing years (which, they both arguably did this year since UK made the round of 32 and Duke the sweet 16 - lower than projected at the start of the season) they have the classes come in that get them right back to being a contender the next year. When a program like UNC that is more focused on 3-4 year cycles has a disappointing year when they had their opportunity, it takes longer for them to reload.
I think the rumblings are only happening because of the teams that are doing better than us of late. Duke (obviously a huge rival), UK (as much of a rival as you can get out of conference in basketball I'd say), and for me add in Uconn since there a bunch of their clown fans up here - that we have to endure having more success than us is tough to stomach. There would be a lot less rumbling if the champs since our 09 title had been BC, LSU, Texas, etc.
I personally think the fixation on recruiting comes from people placing the same amount of value on the recruiting ranking as the AP poll in February or March.
Full disclosure: I don't like OADs because I never get a chance to know them. I don't think of Brandon Wright or Marvin Williams or Ed Davis the same way that I do of 4 year players.
Full disclosure: I don't like OADs because I never get a chance to know them. I don't think of Brandon Wright or Marvin Williams or Ed Davis the same way that I do of 4 year players.
But would it not be useful to adapt even a little bit? I'm not saying Roy should change his philosophy and go full Calipari on the recruiting trail, but I think it would be great to have another Harrison Barnes kind of player come here.
Sure, but the Harrison Barnes version of the OADs are few and far between.
Plus, there has to be a spot on the roster for an OAD to get significant minutes. Is there anyone from next year's starting 5 you would want to replace with any incoming freshman?
Admittedly, I don't follow recruiting, but I have a hard time believing that there is any 18 year old who will be more valuable to the team than any current starter, unless he happens to make donuts on the side, which would be a big distraction for Meeks.
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