OOTB Carolina basketball discussion thread

[TarHeelNation11]

False. Per radar Roy doesn't want these types of guys on the team. He only wants 3-4 year guys. He doesn't sink to those depths. With the exception of the ones we got, all these players had handlers/were given money/had academic issues.

Well, I still stick by my stance that Roy does offer some OADers but he DOESN'T try his absolute hardest to "play the game" and reel in those type of guys. His heart isn't in it as much as it is for a Marcus Paige or Joel James or Reggie Bullock recruit.

And one more thing, I'm sick and tired of hearing about all these mythical handlers. Notice you never ever hear about any problems with these guys once they commit to a non-UNC school and play their one year. You never hear any issues and, more importantly, no violations or ill-doings ever come out. So....what's the deal? These handlers scare Roy that much? UNC doesn't have good enough compliance folks to "hide" potential transgressions? Seems like a cop out by Roy and Radar.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'm sick and tired of hearing about all these mythical handlers.

Can someone tell me exactly what a handler does? They talk about it all of the time on radar, but no one has ever said what exactly they do.

You never hear any issues and, more importantly, no violations or ill-doings ever come out.

Well that's because K and Cal cover it all up right?

Seems like a cop out by Roy and Radar.

Has Roy ever personally mentioned anything about handlers? I've never heard him say anything about them.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Y'all need a good education on many of these AAU folks. Not all mind you, but there are some shady characters out there.

 

[tarheel0910]

Y'all need a good education on many of these AAU folks. Not all mind you, but there are some shady characters out there.

I don't think anyone is denying that, but it's hard for me to believe that the majority of them are shady. Guess I'm just being naïve.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

I don't think anyone is denying that, but it's hard for me to believe that the majority of them are shady. Guess I'm just being naïve.

I agree with you, I don't think the majority are, but that still leaves PLENTY! Couple that with "Family Friends" and you have a whole can of worms.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I had asked a few pages back if anyone had a list of OADs that had been offered by Roy . . last night I was finally able to locate it.
I cannot claim this as the complete list however, so, if you can add a name, please do so.

Thanks in advance, OOTB . .


2004
JR Smith -> NBA (UNC)
Marvin Williams -> UNC

2005
Monta Ellis -> NBA (Miss St)
Martell Webster -> NBA (Washington)
Andrew Bynum -> NBA (UCONN)

2006
Mike Conley -> Ohio State
Daequan Cook -> Ohio State
Kevin Durant -> Texas
Thaddeus Young -> GaTech
Brandan Wright -> UNC
Greg Oden -> Ohio State
Spencer Hawes -> Washington

2012
Shabazz Muhammad -> UCLA
Nerlens Noel -> Kentucky

2013
Andrew Wiggins -> Kansas
Jabari Parker -> d00k
Julius Randle -> Kentucky
Noah Vonleh -> Indiana

2014
Tyus Jones -> d00k
Rashad Vaughn -> UNLV
D'Angelo Russell -> Ohio State
Chris McCullough -> Syracuse
Jahlil Okafor -> d00k

2015
Brandon Ingram -> d00k
Jaylen Brown -> California
Henry Ellenson -> Marquette
Skal Labissiere -> Kentucky
Diamond Stone -> Maryland
Stephen Zimmerman -> UNLV

I'm not sure we "offered" all of those guys. I'm going to check on that.

And even beyond the impact of future recruiting cycles, those whiffs almost assuredly cost us national championship(s). If we have Ingram on our roster last year, there's no doubt in my mind we bring home the trophy. Pairing him with Brice would've been lethal and would've made other guys better too.

Poor logic. You never know how one player can impact the whole team. And I'm not just talking from a chemistry standpoint because I feel Roy excels at getting a team to come together. But take Okafor for example. He was kind of a ball stopper. How does the rest of team react to that. And when that's a new piece of the team and the players know they're only going to be playing with that player for one year, how well do they adjust from the typical way of doing things. No one can definitively say that any of those recruits bring us a championship. Would Ingram have been ok with not taking too many shots? And what becomes of Jackson? Is he ok with moving to the bench? Does Pinson stay engaged because his role would have basically been zero had Ingram come to CH? Do Berry and Ingram have good chemistry?

Lastly, an couple of those players were ridiculously overrated - Zimmerman, Labissiere - and might not have helped our team at all. And you also have to look at guys we signed because we didn't sign these guys. Would you have rather had Nerlens Noel for one year or Brice Johnson for 4?

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I'm not sure we "offered" all of those guys. I'm going to check on that.




Poor logic. You never know how one player can impact the whole team. And I'm not just talking from a chemistry standpoint because I feel Roy excels at getting a team to come together. But take Okafor for example. He was kind of a ball stopper. How does the rest of team react to that. And when that's a new piece of the team and the players know they're only going to be playing with that player for one year, how well do they adjust from the typical way of doing things. No one can definitively say that any of those recruits bring us a championship. Would Ingram have been ok with not taking too many shots? And what becomes of Jackson? Is he ok with moving to the bench? Does Pinson stay engaged because his role would have basically been zero had Ingram come to CH? Do Berry and Ingram have good chemistry?

Lastly, an couple of those players were ridiculously overrated - Zimmerman, Labissiere - and might not have helped our team at all. And you also have to look at guys we signed because we didn't sign these guys. Would you have rather had Nerlens Noel for one year or Brice Johnson for 4?

Okay so maybe that specific example of Ingram wouldn't have panned out (we'll never ever know the answer to that, man, that's kinda my point....we do know that we didn't win the whole thing without them), but what about some of the other players on there? D'Angelo Russell wouldn't have made us better? Andrew Wiggins wouldn't have made us better?

And what about all their handlers and 'family friends' ? Why hasn't Kentucky gotten in trouble yet? Things that make you say hmmm. Is Carolina just unable or unwilling to "play the game"? Lots of Radar folks wear this made-up badge of honor that's like "Well, we aren't winning championships anymore but at least we are doing things the right way!!!!!" I mean....are we though? Leslie McDonald, P.J. Hairston, the academic irregularities in the early 00s. The evidence is there that there's at least a chance that we aren't as squeaky clean as our fans think we are. For me, the ever-present specter of 'handlers' that never actually amounts to anything while said player is in school is very confusing and interesting to me. It could be telling of something.

 

[BillyL]

I'm not sure we "offered" all of those guys. I'm going to check on that.

Which ones on that list do you have some doubt about, just out of curiosity . . ?

 

[tarheel0910]

I agree with you, I don't think the majority are, but that still leaves PLENTY! Couple that with "Family Friends" and you have a whole can of worms.

Serious question. What exactly does a handler do? I hear about a lot of these recruits having handlers. A lot of people act like it is the plague, but I never hear that all these recruits have issues in college. Yes, things can be covered up, but given the amount of OAD players the past decade you would think a few violations would have been found by now.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

The Platek commitment is nice to see, but some are seeming to use that as proof that "ye of little faith" were off-base on the potential short comings of Roy's recruiting. I'm sure Platek will be a great 4 year player for us. But I never had my doubts that Roy could land a guy like Platek.

Carter, Bamba, Knox, etc... now those are the guys that would show me something if we got one of them to commit.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Yea platek is fine and welcome to the hill but seriously hes the number 45 shooting guard. Freaking nc state is killing us on the recruiting trail. Seems to me our classes are trending downward with a couplle nice ones here and there.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Yea platek is fine and welcome to the hill but seriously hes the number 45 shooting guard. Freaking nc state is killing us on the recruiting trail. Seems to me our classes are trending downward with a couplle nice ones here and there.

Yep. I agree with y'all. This recruiting pickup doesn't move the needle at all. Of course, Gary-Siete is spinning it like Platek is a BAMF.

 

[BillyL]

He's definitely not a BAMF . . but, he's much better than what he's currently rated. AP also is one of the top 3 shooters in this class and should be a solid supporting player for 4 years.
I think he choose us because he believes he will fit in very well here. We often complain about not having pure shooters and this youngster can shoot.

Kid had a decent offer list, one which included Indiana and Stanford . . I'd rather he be here than either of those schools.

 

[tarheel0910]

Freaking nc state is killing us on the recruiting trail.

Maybe, but state is more like a junior college situation. They only stay for one or two years then transfer.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

He's definitely not a BAMF . . but, he's much better than what he's currently rated. AP also is one of the top 3 shooters in this class and should be a solid supporting player for 4 years.
I think he choose us because he believes he will fit in very well here. We often complain about not having pure shooters and this youngster can shoot.

Kid had a decent offer list, one which included Indiana and Stanford . . I'd rather he be here than either of those schools.

Don't get me wrong Billy, I'm excited to get this dookie on our side for once! (Let's face it, he fits the exact mold of what a dookie would look like: 3-ball specialist, white, from New Jersey, greasy hair, unusual last name). We've been sorely lacking a consistent 3-point shooter, so from that standpoint, Platek could be an excellent pickup.

But guys like IDUNK4HEELS saying "see, the sky isn't falling! Some of you should have more trust in Roy!!" are reaaaaaching. Platek is the type of guy Roy used to add as an afterthought to a class of already recruited 5* studs.

 

[UNC71-00]

He's definitely not a BAMF . . but, he's much better than what he's currently rated. AP also is one of the top 3 shooters in this class and should be a solid supporting player for 4 years.
I think he choose us because he believes he will fit in very well here. We often complain about not having pure shooters and this youngster can shoot.

Kid had a decent offer list, one which included Indiana and Stanford . . I'd rather he be here than either of those schools.

This is my gripe with recruiting. Is Platek one of the best 3 shooters or is he more of a Bobbt Fraser type contributor? No one knows until he gets here, so why all the fuss?

But I agree with Billy- I will take most any kid who also has an offer from IU and Stanford.

 

[gunslingerdick]

But guys like IDUNK4HEELS saying "see, the sky isn't falling! Some of you should have more trust in Roy!!" are reaaaaaching. Platek is the type of guy Roy used to add as an afterthought to a class of already recruited 5* studs.

Sort of. But as my poast last week illustrated, it's not like Roy was ever doing a whole lot more in recruiting than he has the last couple of years. His recruiting greatness was exaggerated 10 years ago and it mostly came from the one monster class we signed - 2006 with Wright, Lawson and Ellington. But before that and since that, he usually gets one 5 star and then a bunch of highly ranked 4 stars.

I agree that offering Platek this early is a bit of a reach. I don't think we offered Justin Watts or Mike Copeland this early. But as you've seen, Roy likes to have the Jackson Simmons and the Wes Millers of the world. And I'm ok with that too. But we need to have better talent.

 

[heelmanwilm]

He's def a nice pick up. But hes not a difference maker. We're approaching desperation mode for a big for 17. Unless we want another doseof joel james, kennedy meeks types.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

We're approaching desperation mode for a big for 17. Unless we want another doseof joel james, kennedy meeks types.

I don't think I can take another couple years of that. Luke Maye has his positives, but I don't think I'm going to want to watch him start and get 30 mins a game his junior and senior years.

 

[carolinablue34]

I don't think I can take another couple years of that. Luke Maye has his positives, but I don't think I'm going to want to watch him start and get 30 mins a game his junior and senior years.

^This right here. We need a real dynamic presence in the paint, Maye ain't that guy.

 

[BillyL]

Nate Watson is visiting August 22 . . 6'9" 250 lbs. (Bishop O'connell (Arlington, VA.)

 

[carolinablue34]

Nate Watson is visiting August 22 . . 6'9" 250 lbs. (Bishop O'connell (Arlington, VA.)

Good. PJ will as well I think. I also want to see Bamba take a visit if possible.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Nate Watson is visiting August 22 . . 6'9" 250 lbs. (Bishop O'connell (Arlington, VA.)

Good. PJ will as well I think. I also want to see Bamba take a visit if possible.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like we've gotten visits from pretty much every high-profile recruit we've been after the past couple years. We just can't get them to say yes to us.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like we've gotten visits from pretty much every high-profile recruit we've been after the past couple years. We just can't get them to say yes to us.

Nah. We haven't been able to get a lot of our targets on campus.

 

[BillyL]

Nah. We haven't been able to get a lot of our targets on campus.

Indeed.

 

[tarheel0910]

Nah. We haven't been able to get a lot of our targets on campus.

That's the most concerning thing. The fact they won't even consider getting free stuff from us is crazy.

 

[HeelFan58]

Nate Watson is visiting August 22 . . 6'9" 250 lbs. (Bishop O'connell (Arlington, VA.)

top 100 player and #11 center , not sure if he is a difference maker but our big man options are running out fast and 2018 is a weak crop.

http://northcarolina.247sports.com/Bolt/Center-Nate-Watson-releases-top-7-46320244

 

[BillyL]

top 100 player and #11 center , not sure if he is a difference maker but our big man options are running out fast and 2018 is a weak crop.

#58 on the Scout list . . agreed that he's not the elite we desire, but, if he wants us as much as we need him, then hell, let's do this.

 

[carolinablue34]

#58 on the Scout list . . agreed that he's not the elite we desire, but, if he wants us as much as we need him, then hell, let's do this.

Billy, is that Ned Cota dude a troll or what?

 

[BillyL]

Billy, is that Ned Cota dude a troll or what?

Naah . . . he's with us.

 

[HeelFan58]

#58 on the Scout list . . agreed that he's not the elite we desire, but, if he wants us as much as we need him, then hell, let's do this.

I cannot argue with that.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Nah. We haven't been able to get a lot of our targets on campus.

Oh.... yikes.

So for instance, Ingram didn't even visit??

 

[grillheel]

Oh.... yikes.

So for instance, Ingram didn't even visit??

I don't know for sure, but I was told that Ingram and his father came to almost every Carolina home game his senior year.

 

[BillyL]

GrillHeel is right, Ingram made so many of our games our guys were referring to him as #freeticket . .

However, if you are in the hunt for a player, I'd think that anytime that recruit wanted to visit/attend a game, that the staff would consider it a good omen.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I don't know for sure, but I was told that Ingram and his father came to almost every Carolina home game his senior year.

How in the hell did y'all Eastern North Carolinians let Ingram go to Duke.....? I can't imagine that decision was very popular in Kinston. I can't imagine there's many Duke fans out that way. I especially can't imagine there's many Duke alums out that way.

 

[carolinablue34]

In my mind we need someone very highly ranked to commit in order to start having a serious chance with the top 10 guys again.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

In my mind we need someone very highly ranked to commit in order to start having a serious chance with the top 10 guys again.

Or maybe we're just on the cusp of going full "mid-major" in terms of recruiting nothing but 3- and 4-year guys.

 

[carolinablue34]

Or maybe we're just on the cusp of going full "mid-major" in terms of recruiting nothing but 3- and 4-year guys.

God, I hope not.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

God, I hope not.

We're darn near already there..

 

[gunslingerdick]

In my mind we need someone very highly ranked to commit in order to start having a serious chance with the top 10 guys again.

That won't be enough to satisfy you and others that feel the same way about our recruiting, simply having a top recruit commit won't do it. He'll have to commit and then play well in his freshman year and then be a lottery pick. That's what needs to happen. The commit won't do anything.

Personally, I'm not of like mind. I'm perfectly content with one 5 star per year and a bunch of 4 star guys.