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OOTB's Political Thread . ..

NoleSoup4U said:
First, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my comment.

Second, I'm not really going to pay a lot of attention to snippets of "information" that don't really have much backstory. I know you're a "die-hard" Republican. I'm sure I could post some snippets that would make Reagan look like a goon.

Come strong, or go home, old man.
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Sorry, I should have included some pictures..... Since when does an opinion need a background story? You either agree or disagree
 
Terror Beard said:
I haven't checked in on this thread in a while. But I stopped in to say that I believe the above quoted statement is a lie.
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Can’t prove how I have voted but how much do you want to bet on the rest that can be proven? You guys have stolen the term conservative, you wouldn’t know a real conservative if they walked up to you and slapped you on the head. You guys are the real RINO’s
 
heelmanwilm said:
Can someone dumb down this whistle blower thing. Not a trump fan (duh) but i dont see wtf all the angst is about.
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Right now it's just a bunch of speculation and people are freaking out based on Trump's past. Apparently he "promised" something to a foreign official (the speculation is Ukraine), which could indicate some kind of quid pro quo. The biggest controversy at this point is why the info hasn't been turned over to congress. The DNI is saying it isn't required to be turned over and congress is saying it is required to be turned over.

ETA: So basically, Trump's mouth continues to get him into trouble.

2ETA: Rudy G. had an interview with the press and seemed to indicate that Trump was promising aid to Ukraine in exchange for an investigation into business deals with the Biden family.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
Right now it's just a bunch of speculation and people are freaking out based on Trump's past. Apparently he "promised" something to a foreign official (the speculation is Ukraine), which could indicate some kind of quid pro quo. The biggest controversy at this point is why the info hasn't been turned over to congress. The DNI is saying it isn't required to be turned over and congress is saying it is required to be turned over.

ETA: So basically, Trump's mouth continues to get him into trouble.

2ETA: Rudy G. had an interview with the press and seemed to indicate that Trump was promising aid to Ukraine in exchange for an investigation into business deals with the Biden family.
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Roo-Dee! Roo-Dee!
 
prlyles said:
This describes you to a tee.




Donald Trump is the King of Chaos. He has lied at least 12,000 timessince becoming president of the United States.

These lies are often obvious and lazy — such as incorrectly claiming that Hurricane Dorian would hit Alabama and then forcing scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to parrot his lies. Trump’s lies are made no less dangerous when they happen to be lazy and obvious.

Trump is unapologetic and unabashed in his contempt for American democracy and the rule of law. Many mental health professionals have concluded he is unwell. He lacks impulse control and evidences sociopathic behavior.

Trump acts like a self-styled mob boss — a corrupt bully who forces his subordinates to “kick up” to him.

America’s own spies do not trust our unpredictable president to act responsibly with the country’s secrets.

Trump is mercurial in his cruelty, waiting until people are in dire need to punish them, often based on sheer bigotry and racism. Most recently he has refused to let desperate people from the Bahamas enter the United States after their homes were destroyed by Hurricane Dorian.

He tells his subordinates to break the law as they execute his plans and promises to pardon them if they do so. He fires people on a whim in order to ensure their loyalty. He ignores any restraints on his power as mandated by the Constitution.

Progress is under assault in America as Trump and his allies are overturning the human and civil rights of nonwhites, women, LGBT people, the disabled and everyone else he and his movement deem to be “less than” and the Other.

Chaos is at the nucleus Age of Trump. This chaos and the disruption and destruction it causes manifest in many ways.

Trumpism is a form of backlash politics fueled by white rage at a perceived loss of privilege and power in a more diverse and cosmopolitan world. Trumpism is a temper tantrum along the global color line fueled by anxieties about power and social dominance.

Writing in the journal Contemporary Sociology, Jeffrey Alexander offers this context:

Backlash does not occur because conservative cadres and followers are anti-modern, irrational, or even unusually bigoted. Backlash is triggered, rather, because ideal and material structures of the status quo have been abruptly displaced, and those who occupied those structures wish to return to the time before displacement, when they were sitting and standing in what was obviously, and not just in retrospect, a better place.

In their 2016 article “Trump, Brexit, and the Rise of Populism,” social scientists Ronald Inglehart and Pippa Norris also locate Trumpism as part of a global right-wing movement that is channeling what they describe as “retro backlash.” This is a feeling “especially among the older generation, white men, and less educated sectors, who sense decline and actively reject the rising tide of progressive values, resent the displacement of familiar traditional norms, and provide a pool of supporters potentially vulnerable to populist appeals.”

Trumpism is doing the work of “accelerationism” — an ideology which holds that the destruction of the existing social order must be hastened, regardless of the human cost, so that a new and “better” world can be created. Trumpism is a means through which a right-wing, reactionary version of accelerationism is being enacted in the United States.

Writing in the Guardian, Andy Beckett summarizes the goals of accelerationist thinkers: “They often favour the deregulation of business, and drastically scaled-back government. They believe that people should stop deluding themselves that economic and technological progress can be controlled. They often believe that social and political upheaval has a value in itself.”

Predictably, white supremacists and other right-wing terrorists have embraced accelerationism because they understand it to be a viable strategy for destroying multiracial society.

Going beyond a conceptual framework, new research shows how backlash politics and accelerationism are lived through and experienced by Trump’s supporters — and make clear that Trump’s hold on them will be difficult if not impossible to break.

In their new award-winning research paper “A ‘Need for Chaos’ and the Sharing of Hostile Political Rumors in Advanced Democracies,” political scientists Michael Bang Petersen, Mathias Osmundsen and Kevin Arceneaux show that Donald Trump’s supporters are attracted to chaos and want to inflict it on others. They reached this conclusion by surveying a representative sample of approximately 6,000 people in Denmark (a country with comparatively low political polarization) and the United States.

The researchers asked the subjects if they agreed with the following statements:



    • I fantasize about a natural disaster wiping out most of humanity such that a small group of people can start all over
    • I think society should be burned to the ground
    • Sometimes I just feel like destroying beautiful things
    • There is no right and wrong in the world
The answers were compiled in an index that Petersen, Osmundsen and Arceneaux label as “Need for Chaos.” They do not bode well for liberal democracy. Nearly one in four respondents, 24 percent, agreed that society should be burned to the ground, while a remarkable 40 percent agreed with the statement, “We cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over.” Similarly, 40 percent agreed with the statement, “When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking ‘just let them all burn.’”

In their paper Petersen, Osmundsen, and Arceneaux describe their findings as “staggering.” They write:

The extreme discontent expressed in the “Need for Chaos” scale is a minority view but it is a minority view with incredible amounts of support. … A substantial minority of individuals are so discontent that they are willing to mobilize against the current political order to see if what emerges from the resulting chaos has something better in stock for them.

People who measure high in “Need for Chaos” are also more likely to circulate conspiracy theories online. This is done not out of sincere belief but rather from a desire to cause chaos and confusion.

Right-wing authoritarians — a group that strongly correlates with Trump supporters and Republicans — are also emotionally immature. This is the conclusion of social psychologist Alain Van Hiel and his colleagues in their new paper “The Relationship Between Emotional Abilities and Right-Wing and Prejudiced Attitudes.“ Van Hiel explained his findings to the website PsyPost

The results of this study were univocal. People who endorse authority and strong leaders and who do not mind inequality — the two basic dimensions underlying right-wing political ideology — show lower levels of emotional abilities.

When one includes the findings of other research showing that Trump supporters and other conservatives) are likely to exhibit what psychologists call the “dark triad” of human behavior — Machiavellianism, psychopathy and narcissism — we must consider the possibility of significant political violence if and when Trump is removed from office.

Donald Trump’s movement is a type of political body. The brain consists of ideologues, whether they work in the White House (like Stephen Miller), right-wing think tanks and interest groups, the Republican Party, Fox News and other elite groupings. These people see Trumpism as their best chance to destroy America’s multiracial democracy, profit from environment disaster, gut the social safety net, destroy the commons, slash taxes on the wealthy and large corporations, or (in extreme cases) install a Christian nationalist regime.

The muscles, bones, guts and sinew of Trump’s political body are his coalition of white right-wing evangelicals, white suburbanites who do not care about democracy or the country’s overall health as long as their 401(k) accounts continue to grow, and bigoted, rage-filled members of the infamous “white working class.”
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Pure drivel.
 
prlyles said:
Sorry, I should have included some pictures..... Since when does an opinion need a background story? You either agree or disagree
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I didn't read enough to give an opinion. I tried, but it just sounded like some long rant. That's cool and all, but it didn't seem to have anything to do with the post with which it was responding.
 
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NoleSoup4U said:
I mean, if this is the new crap the Dems are throwing against the wall, then they're almost at rock bottom. It's been pretty fun to watch the shit show that is the never-Trumpers.

Edit: BTW, did you actually watch the clip?
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Yes, I watched it. Many "journalists" on these shows like to force their guests into a corner. That's what they get paid to do. I liked watching Rudy bounce around and lose his composure. It isn't just "never-Trumpers" making this circus the spectacle that it is, if you see it objectively.

American government is comprised of politicians. Politicians are paid and incentivized to to be more corrupt than their competition. They thrive on digging-up dirt on each other. This isn't a new thing. It's as old as politics itself. But, now there is public access to the reality and severity of it. They're forced to decide if they care or if they remain willfully ignorant to it. Sometimes it's more pragmatic to pretend it's not really happening, or only one side does it more maliciously. It's a race to the bottom. It's a shame that America has allowed itself to be a two-party/polarity system. There's not even any middle ground anymore.
 
strummingram said:
Yes, I watched it. Many "journalists" on these shows like to force their guests into a corner. That's what they get paid to do. I liked watching Rudy bounce around and lose his composure. It isn't just "never-Trumpers" making this circus the spectacle that it is, if you see it objectively.

American government is comprised of politicians. Politicians are paid and incentivized to to be more corrupt than their competition. They thrive on digging-up dirt on each other. This isn't a new thing. It's as old as politics itself. But, now there is public access to the reality and severity of it. They're forced to decide if they care or if they remain willfully ignorant to it. Sometimes it's more pragmatic to pretend it's not really happening, or only one side does it more maliciously. It's a race to the bottom. It's a shame that America has allowed itself to be a two-party/polarity system. There's not even any middle ground anymore.
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I'm not really a fan of Rudy, but I'm curious as to when he bounced around and lost his composure. Is there something tangible that you can point to, or was it an "overall vibe"?
 
NoleSoup4U said:
I'm not really a fan of Rudy, but I'm curious as to when he bounced around and lost his composure. Is there something tangible that you can point to, or was it an "overall vibe"?
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What? He was totally calm during that whole exchange!
 
Imagine if Obama threatened to withhold foreign aid if a foreign head of state refused to dig up dirt on his opponent. The same people who don't care about Trump doing this stuff would be losing their minds if it was Obama. This kind of stuff is why I have zero interest in talking politics with Trump supporters. It's a complete waste of time. Nothing can change their minds about him, so there's no point in trying.

It's the same cycle over and over again.

1. He didn't do it.
2. Okay, he did it but it isn't illegal/unethical
3. Okay maybe it's illegal/unethical, but it's not that big of a deal.
4. Everyone criticizing him is just deranged.
 
uncboy10 said:
Imagine if Obama threatened to withhold foreign aid if a foreign head of state refused to dig up dirt on his opponent. The same people who don't care about Trump doing this stuff would be losing their minds if it was Obama. This kind of stuff is why I have zero interest in talking politics with Trump supporters. It's a complete waste of time. Nothing can change their minds about him, so there's no point in trying.

It's the same cycle over and over again.

1. He didn't do it.
2. Okay, he did it but it isn't illegal/unethical
3. Okay maybe it's illegal/unethical, but it's not that big of a deal.
4. Everyone criticizing him is just deranged.
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Obama did threaten to withhold foreign aid through his surrogate Biden. There's video of Biden saying this very fact. So no need to "imagine if".

 
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nctransplant said:
Obama did threaten to withhold foreign aid through his surrogate Biden. There's video of Biden saying this very fact. So no need to "imagine if".

View embedded media
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You saved me from posting it. BTW, I've heard nothing about Trump withholding funds, and I've read a few articles by some real leftist corporate media sources. I'm sure they would have mentioned that if it was indeed true.
 
Michael Malice explains how Trump is trolling the left, the right, and the mainstream media as a whole. I know most of you won't watch this, because of that whole house of cards deal, but it really is one of the more interesting and informative interviews I've watched.

 
The second part of this interview. I like how, when Rubin asks him who he can debate with on the left, he immediately talks about Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore. Those are probably the top two leftists that I'll drop everything in order to listen.



Edit: Holy shit! The guy just invoked Tulsi Gabbard! This gives me hope for this dysfunctional warmongering country.
 
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uncboy10 said:
Imagine if Obama threatened to withhold foreign aid if a foreign head of state refused to dig up dirt on his opponent. The same people who don't care about Trump doing this stuff would be losing their minds if it was Obama. This kind of stuff is why I have zero interest in talking politics with Trump supporters. It's a complete waste of time. Nothing can change their minds about him, so there's no point in trying.

It's the same cycle over and over again.

1. He didn't do it.
2. Okay, he did it but it isn't illegal/unethical
3. Okay maybe it's illegal/unethical, but it's not that big of a deal.
4. Everyone criticizing him is just deranged.
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All foreign aid should be withheld IMHO.
 
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cletusnow said:
All foreign aid should be withheld IMHO.
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Anything to dodge the issue. First of all, that’s just silly. It’s clearly in our best interest to provide security and economic aid to our allies, especially in sensitive regions. Two responses from trump supporters and both deliberately ignored the issue of the president committing a treasonous act by asking a foreign country to interfere with our elections by digging up dirt on his opponent. He’s trying to use American tax dollars and military/security assets for his own personal/political gain. It’s truly astonishing that anyone would try to defend this...

Wait, no it isn’t. Trump supporters will defend literally anything he does. He could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and you guys wouldn’t care. He mocked a disabled reporter, and despite the video evidence, people still pretended that wasn’t what was happening. No reason to be surprised that his supporters will defend this too.
 
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Pelosi, and the House Dems, are going to make it clear to Americans that they don't actually care about Russia collusion and impeaching Trump... if it means taking Biden out of the campaign. American hypocrisy in politics, writ large.
 
uncboy10 said:
Anything to dodge the issue. First of all, that’s just silly. It’s clearly in our best interest to provide security and economic aid to our allies, especially in sensitive regions. Two responses from trump supporters and both deliberately ignored the issue of the president committing a treasonous act by asking a foreign country to interfere with our elections by digging up dirt on his opponent. He’s trying to use American tax dollars and military/security assets for his own personal/political gain. It’s truly astonishing that anyone would try to defend this...

Wait, no it isn’t. Trump supporters will defend literally anything he does. He could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and you guys wouldn’t care. He mocked a disabled reporter, and despite the video evidence, people still pretended that wasn’t what was happening. No reason to be surprised that his supporters will defend this too.
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You do realize that the so called whistle blower does not have first hand knowledge of the actual conversation right? You'd make a terrible jurist.
 
strummingram said:
Pelosi, and the House Dems, are going to make it clear to Americans that they don't actually care about Russia collusion and impeaching Trump... if it means taking Biden out of the campaign. American hypocrisy in politics, writ large.
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I think this latest situation, if true, is going to give them enough cover to impeach him. There won't be enough votes in the senate to kick him out of office though.
 
nctransplant said:
You do realize that the so called whistle blower does not have first hand knowledge of the actual conversation right? You'd make a terrible jurist.
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His own lawyer pushed the Biden corruption narrative, and admitted to asking them to investigate Joe Biden.

"Of course I did." lol
 
I wonder what the voting breakdown here would be if we had a private poll that asked the question "should Trump be impeached if Ukraine story is true." I'd be willing to bet that the yes votes would be higher than expected since it would be setup as a private poll. People tend to be more honest and forthcoming if they can remain anonymous. I don't really want to be the one to start another political thread though. It would kind of make me look hypocritical after asking Billy if he could limit the political threads.
 
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