OOTB's Political Thread . ..

[heelmanwilm]

Sure.



Agree. But more importantly, what I'd like to see is some couth and humility from those supporting "a woman's right to choose". You can support that right. But I'd like to see people be kind of disgusted and embarrassed by their support of killing unborn babies. In other words, no one should ever be proud to support any kind of abortion. If you're going to support it, you should begrudgingly support it.



I can't support that. Close the borders entirely. No legal or illegal immigration for 10 years. Let's get our shit together before we start inviting more people in. And when we do open it back up, let's go back to the numbers we saw in the 1960s.




I don't think anyone is saying to throw the science out the window. Or at least, I'm not. But where we differ is what to do about it. I chalk a lot of it up to "the cost of living". That doesn't mean I, personally am irresponsible. And I'm not opposed to discussion about some measures to protect the planet. But I'm also not buying into the hysteria that many want to create and I'm not just jumping on board with costly or doomed-to-fail plans.

Good responses. The problem is most every right wing pundit and politician claims climate change is a hoax. Period. No discussion, no science. Which is basically along the lines of claiming the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth. The science is clear and in near unanimous agreement. Humans are changing the climate to the planet’s detriment. Thats what the scientific community as a whole agrees on. I dont know the answer but its plain ignorant, irresponsible, and stupid as fuk to deny and ignore it as nearly all right wingers try to do. The last sermon i sat through was a torturous mind numbingly idiotic bunch of drivel about how satan concocted the global warming “conspiracy” to entice young people to the dark side of liberalism. He likened it to a molester luring a kid into a van with a puppy. Thats the dumbfukery alive and well in the right. There has to be an adult conversation void of political and religious bull shit about being good stewards of the planet. Right now theres not. Its just right vs left. And i blame al gore for that. He politicized it and the repubs responded in predictable frothing at the mouth manner.

 

[strummingram]

Good responses. The problem is most every right wing pundit and politician claims climate change is a hoax. Period. No discussion, no science. Which is basically along the lines of claiming the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth. The science is clear and in near unanimous agreement. Humans are changing the climate to the planet’s detriment. Thats what the scientific community as a whole agrees on. I dont know the answer but its plain ignorant, irresponsible, and stupid as fuk to deny and ignore it as nearly all right wingers try to do. The last sermon i sat through was a torturous mind numbingly idiotic bunch of drivel about how satan concocted the global warming “conspiracy” to entice young people to the dark side of liberalism. He likened it to a molester luring a kid into a van with a puppy. Thats the dumbfukery alive and well in the right. There has to be an adult conversation void of political and religious bull shit about being good stewards of the planet. Right now theres not. Its just right vs left. And i blame al gore for that. He politicized it and the repubs responded in predictable frothing at the mouth manner.

Humans are changing the planet to human's detriment not the planet's. The planet has no stake in the outcome. The planet's going to be just fine. The people, on the other hand...

 

[cletusnow]

Humans are changing the planet to human's detriment not the planet's. The planet has no stake in the outcome. The planet's going to be just fine. The people, on the other hand...

Here here! ...and I’m going to be just fine, but I worry about the humans living in those cesspools called cities.

 

[uncboy10]

The technology already exists to abate a huge chunk of our current emissions. Nuclear power for the grid and electric vehicles would be a huge step forward.

A big part of the problem is most people don’t understand basic economics. Markets don’t solve externality problems like pollution or carbon emissions. That’s why they’re called externalities.

Fox News is currently telling its viewers that “Dems have been warning us that climate change will kill us all.” This kind of straw man nonsense is a huge problem. Nobody is saying it will kill everyone. We’re saying that it will cause trillions of dollars in damage, and yes some lives will be lost. The increase in water and air temperature in/over the Atlantic Ocean is already causing an uptick in hurricane strength, and those storms are killing people. It never fails to amaze me how spectacularly stupid some people are when it comes to this subject.

 

[tarheel0910]

LeBron is a puss. I'd have more respect for all the people involved in this if they would just admit it was about money.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...was-misinformed-sending-tweet-china-hong-kong

 

[uncboy10]

LeBron is a puss. I'd have more respect for all the people involved in this if they would just admit it was about money.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...was-misinformed-sending-tweet-china-hong-kong

Good grief

 

[Heelicious]

For LeBron to call someone else “uneducated” or “misinformed” is hilarity. Dude is a moron and he’s lucky that our society highly values someone that can jump high and dribble a basketball because he’d be the freak show bag boy at the local supermarket if not.

LOL - 5-star accurate and funny post. Perfectly accurate assessment.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

The NBA/China thing is such a joke, but the good that it's done is show the world that Bron Bron and the other wanna-be-SJWs in the NBA don't really care about human rights if it gets in the way of them making a buck. South Park has done a good job with the whole thing - and they don't seem to mind getting white-washed from China.

 

[heelmanwilm]

The NBA/China thing is such a joke, but the good that it's done is show the world that Bron Bron and the other wanna-be-SJWs in the NBA don't really care about human rights if it gets in the way of them making a buck. South Park has done a good job with the whole thing - and they don't seem to mind getting white-washed from China.

Well lets be honest. None of us really give a shyt about human rights when it gets in the way of our economy and saving a buck. As consumers We’ve been reaping the benefits of cheap goods from china and other places that exploit minors and stomp on human rights for decades. So lets not be all holier than thou when it comes to the nba doing the same damn thing.

And yea south park’s take is hilarious.

 

[tarheel0910]

Well lets be honest. None of us really give a shyt about human rights when it gets in the way of our economy and saving a buck. As consumers We’ve been reaping the benefits of cheap goods from china and other places that exploit minors and stomp on human rights for decades. So lets not be all holier than thou when it comes to the nba doing the same damn thing.

That's not really the issue. The issue is the NBA and the players are trying to act like it's not a money thing. I've got no problem admitting that I'll buy shoes that have been made in China if it saves me money. These guys just need to say that it's about money and they don't care what China is doing as long as it doesn't hurt them. Instead they are trying to act like China isn't a shitty country for human rights.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Well lets be honest. None of us really give a shyt about human rights when it gets in the way of our economy and saving a buck. As consumers We’ve been reaping the benefits of cheap goods from china and other places that exploit minors and stomp on human rights for decades. So lets not be all holier than thou when it comes to the nba doing the same damn thing.

My take is pretty much exactly what @tarheel0910 already said, but ya I have no problem admitting I would prefer to pay $10 less for a pair of shoes that was made in a sweat shop in China as compared to shoes made elsewhere by fairly compensated labor.

So I'm no holier than anyone when it comes to money trumping human rights issues. Where I am holier than the NBA is that I admit that, and don't try to sugar coat that fact to have my cake and eat it too.

 

[cletusnow]

I’ve got no problem with what he’s doing. I’m sure if my job or well being was on the line I would do the same thing. I’ve got mouths to feed and my morals can be compromised, for a price. I just don’t like him because he’s a dick.

 

[Heels Noir]

I have no problem admitting I would prefer to pay $10 less for a pair of shoes that was made in a sweat shop in China as compared to shoes made elsewhere by fairly compensated labor.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[uncboy10]

Yeah I’d gladly pay a few bucks more for a different product to not support human rights abuses. It seems weird to brag about how you wouldn’t...

 

[strummingram]

I would say that the human race has been benefiting from cheap labor, slave labor, for about... 6000 years? Now I know why slavery was upheld for so long in this country, continent. Nothing like getting the goods really, really, really cheap. Who cares if they're living in squalor, and treated not much better than common livestock.

 

[tarheel0910]

Yeah I’d gladly pay a few bucks more for a different product to not support human rights abuses. It seems weird to brag about how you wouldn’t...

Where are your clothes made?

 

[tarheel0910]

I would say that the human race has been benefiting from cheap labor, slave labor, for about... 6000 years? Now I know why slavery was upheld for so long in this country, continent. Nothing like getting the goods really, really, really cheap. Who cares if they're living in squalor, and treated not much better than common livestock.

It's just varying degrees though. You can proudly say you buy American, but is that great? Remember, this is the country that doesn't pay livable wages, doesn't have great healthcare for the poor, is one of the worst polluters in the world, etc.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Yeah I’d gladly pay a few bucks more for a different product to not support human rights abuses. It seems weird to brag about how you wouldn’t...

Feel free to donate a few bucks to workers unions, or go hand a factory worker a $10, everytime you buy something made in China, Taiwan, etc. Seems weird to flex on that but not put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I would say that the human race has been benefiting from cheap labor, slave labor, for about... 6000 years? Now I know why slavery was upheld for so long in this country, continent. Nothing like getting the goods really, really, really cheap. Who cares if they're living in squalor, and treated not much better than common livestock.

I generally try to save money to prepare for the future, rather than banking on someone else to bail me out. Even a couple bucks at a time. But you might have a point - if everything I save is just gonna get wealth taxed away, might as well spend frivolously now.

 

[uncboy10]

Where are your clothes made?

I mean they aren’t all made in the same place. But anytime I have a choice I will choose a manufacturer that doesn’t use sweat shops.

Feel free to donate a few bucks to workers unions, or go hand a factory worker a $10, everytime you buy something made in China, Taiwan, etc. Seems weird to flex on that but not put your money where your mouth is.

So now you support unions? And why assume I don’t put my money where my mouth is? Are you really that skeptical that some people base their purchasing decisions in part on how the product is manufactured?

 

[strummingram]

It's just varying degrees though. You can proudly say you buy American, but is that great? Remember, this is the country that doesn't pay livable wages, doesn't have great healthcare for the poor, is one of the worst polluters in the world, etc.

I generally try to save money to prepare for the future, rather than banking on someone else to bail me out. Even a couple bucks at a time. But you might have a point - if everything I save is just gonna get wealth taxed away, might as well spend frivolously now.

I was making a more generalized statement.

People from just about any era of human history- once commerce and trade was industrialized and especially since transporting goods was possible- have never really been bothered, from a moral perspective, about whatever group of people were being oppressed, or worked into the ground, or enslaved, or worked against their will, as long as it meant they could enjoy the goods in abundance, and the cheaper the better. And, most importantly, as long as it wasn't them being exploited (being one of those enslaved, etc.).

 

[prlyles]

I generally try to save money to prepare for the future, rather than banking on someone else to bail me out. Even a couple bucks at a time. But you might have a point - if everything I save is just gonna get wealth taxed away, might as well spend frivolously now.

What is the wealth tax you’re talking about?

 

[tarheel0910]

I mean they aren’t all made in the same place. But anytime I have a choice I will choose a manufacturer that doesn’t use sweat shops.

There are plenty of clothes out there that aren't made in third world countries, so you always have the choice. It sounds like you don't always make the "moral" choice. Which is fine, because as I've already said I do the same thing.

 

[uncboy10]

There are plenty of clothes out there that aren't made in third world countries, so you always have the choice. It sounds like you don't always make the "moral" choice. Which is fine, because as I've already said I do the same thing.

I never claimed to be perfect. But no I don’t buy clothes that are made by manufacturers that are known to employ sweat shop labor.

What’s odd to me is people bragging about how they would gladly buy something made by what is basically the equivalent of slave labor if it would save them a few bucks.

 

[tarheel0910]

I never claimed to be perfect. But no I don’t buy clothes that are made by manufacturers that are known to employ sweat shop labor.

So, what clothes do you buy?

What’s odd to me is people bragging about how they would gladly buy something made by what is basically the equivalent of slave labor if it would save them a few bucks.

So the issue for you is that people brag about doing it instead of secretly doing it while holding their head in shame.

 

[tarheel0910]

I was making a more generalized statement.

People from just about any era of human history- once commerce and trade was industrialized and especially since transporting goods was possible- have never really been bothered, from a moral perspective, about whatever group of people were being oppressed, or worked into the ground, or enslaved, or worked against their will, as long as it meant they could enjoy the goods in abundance, and the cheaper the better. And, most importantly, as long as it wasn't them being exploited (being one of those enslaved, etc.).

Right, but my point was that the choice is just a choice of varying degrees. Someone is always going to be exploited no matter what you buy.

 

[uncboy10]

So, what clothes do you buy?


So the issue for you is that people brag about doing it instead of secretly doing it while holding their head in shame.

Clothes that aren’t manufactured in China or Malaysia for starters. There are resources online for identifying brands that are ethically sourced.

Yeah that’s part of it. Seems slightly sociopathic to brag about that kind of thing. Blaming consumers is not going to solve the problem. These kinds of things require regulation to solve. But why brag about supporting sweat shops to save a few bucks? Just seems like another example of people just wanting to give the middle finger to people who have these ethical concerns. The bragging is just an attempt to piss people off.

 

[Heelicious]

I never claimed to be perfect. But no I don’t buy clothes that are made by manufacturers that are known to employ sweat shop labor.

What’s odd to me is people bragging about how they would gladly buy something made by what is basically the equivalent of slave labor if it would save them a few bucks.

I'm not trolling, just an honest question here..... do you own or would you be OK with owning - an electric or hybrid car?
The mining of lithium for the insatiable demand for electric batteries and power sources is possibly the largest human working conditions crisis on the planet, and is mostly unrecognized.... not to mention how damaging the runoff and the negative chemical impact is on the miners and communities who mine and harvest the lithium.

Same question for ownership of a smart phone. There is an alternative... land lines, paper maps, etc.

 

[uncboy10]

I'm not trolling, just an honest question here..... do you own or would you be OK with owning - an electric or hybrid car?
The mining of lithium for the insatiable demand for electric batteries and power sources is possibly the largest human working conditions crisis on the planet, and is mostly unrecognized.... not to mention how damaging the runoff and the negative chemical impact is on the miners and communities who mine and harvest the lithium.

Same question for ownership of a smart phone. There is an alternative... land lines, paper maps, etc.

Lithium mining needs to be cleaned up. That’s an example of the need for stricter regulations. Would I own an electric car in the future? Sure. But even if lithium mining is cleaned up, it doesn’t make much difference as long as they’re being charged off a power grid that runs off of fossil fuels.

Land lines and paper maps don’t even scratch the surface of replacing cell phones. This goes back to my point about regulating suppliers instead of blaming consumers. My original point was that it’s strange to brag about supporting unethical suppliers. Am I happy about the fact that the production of my smart phone requires problematic inputs? No. Would I pay more for an alternative smartphone that is more environmentally friendly, sure.

We’re in agreement that lithium mining needs to be cleaned up. But it’s a lot easier to regulate a few companies than it is to change the purchasing decisions of billions of consumers.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

So now you support unions? And why assume I don’t put my money where my mouth is? Are you really that skeptical that some people base their purchasing decisions in part on how the product is manufactured?

Where did you get me supporting unions from that poast? I clearly said you can donate money to unions if you truly do feel bad about purchasing goods from unfairly compensated labor. And I never made the assumption you don't put your money where your mouth is - I simply said it would be weird if you didn't donate money given the high horse you put yourself on (although truth be told, I would definitely bet against you donating every time you bought something from China, but maybe you do - which would be honorable to not just be blowing hot air about the whole thing).

What’s odd to me is people bragging about how they would gladly buy something made by what is basically the equivalent of slave labor if it would save them a few bucks.

Your attempts to twist words to fit your narrative are laudable, albeit ineffective. No one is bragging about buying cheaper foreign goods. I even used the word "admit" which signifies I realize it's not desirable morally to buy the cheaper option: "I have no problem admitting I would prefer to pay $10 less for a pair of shoes"

If the sweat shop shoes were more expensive, I certainly wouldn't buy them in an attempt to support unethical manufacturing. If I were a billionaire, I'd buy the more expensive option and wouldn't care about the price difference. Unfortunately, neither is the case, so I make the decision to go with the cheaper option which happens to be the Chinese sourced one.

 

[Grayhead]

It seems to me that the whole clean energy/ global warming topic creates more issues within the solutions.
I understand that we have to do something to help our planet. Regulations need to be in place as well as viable research for new energy sources. My problem with all of it seems to be the extreme sides of both parties. I don't buy into the thought that the polar ice caps are suddenly going to melt and wash away all the coastal plains of the world. I understand they are melting, due to man made issues but also natural issues. The reality of the issue shows a fine line of causes and solutions being just outside of said line. Not the extreme ends that show.

 

[uncboy10]

Where did you get me supporting unions from that poast? I clearly said you can donate money to unions if you truly do feel bad about purchasing goods from unfairly compensated labor. And I never made the assumption you don't put your money where your mouth is - I simply said it would be weird if you didn't donate money given the high horse you put yourself on (although truth be told, I would definitely bet against you donating every time you bought something from China, but maybe you do - which would be honorable to not just be blowing hot air about the whole thing).


Your attempts to twist words to fit your narrative are laudable, albeit ineffective. No one is bragging about buying cheaper foreign goods. I even used the word "admit" which signifies I realize it's not desirable morally to buy the cheaper option: "I have no problem admitting I would prefer to pay $10 less for a pair of shoes"

If the sweat shop shoes were more expensive, I certainly wouldn't buy them in an attempt to support unethical manufacturing. If I were a billionaire, I'd buy the more expensive option and wouldn't care about the price difference. Unfortunately, neither is the case, so I make the decision to go with the cheaper option which happens to be the Chinese sourced one.

It was a joke. I know that you don’t support workers having collective bargaining power. Why donate money instead of just choosing to buy things from companies that do compensate their workers fairly?

Hey I’m glad you aren’t bragging about it. But you hardly have to be a billionaire to buy ethically sourced products. I hear the Chinese make terrible shoes anyways.

 

[heelmanwilm]

That's not really the issue. The issue is the NBA and the players are trying to act like it's not a money thing. I've got no problem admitting that I'll buy shoes that have been made in China if it saves me money. These guys just need to say that it's about money and they don't care what China is doing as long as it doesn't hurt them. Instead they are trying to act like China isn't a shitty country for human rights.

Well they’re trying to be politically correct in the name of money. Same as any of us would be in a similar situation i would guess. I dont watch nba and dont really have a dog in the hunt so to speak. But i understand what they’re doing. Part of me wishes they would speak up and call china out. But as i referenced, as long as i support china with my purchases i cant really pass judgement on them or anyone else for looking the other way in name of making money.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I hear the Chinese make terrible shoes anyways.

Ya, they do tend to be a little too small.

 

[uncboy10]

Ya, they do tend to be a little too small.

That must be why Zion busted right out of his.

 

[tarheel0910]

Well they’re trying to be politically correct in the name of money. Same as any of us would be in a similar situation i would guess. I dont watch nba and dont really have a dog in the hunt so to speak. But i understand what they’re doing. Part of me wishes they would speak up and call china out. But as i referenced, as long as i support china with my purchases i cant really pass judgement on them or anyone else for looking the other way in name of making money.

Yeah, I agree with you about why they are doing it. It just makes me role my eyes and laugh a little because it's so obvious they are FOS. Just be upfront about it being a money thing and I might have a little more respect for them.

It's hard for me to take LeBron serious when he starts talking about social justice and free speech. Either be all in, be quiet or be honest that it's a money thing. If you aren't doing that, then I've got no use for what you say about social justice. His true colors have been shown. The media has been bashing him and the NBA though. It's been fun to watch the media turn on them when they have largely been given a pass before.

 

[tarheel0910]

Morey didn’t just cost LeBron, he cost the league. As an employee, you are expected to not put the league in a situation that could potentially cost over $1B (early estimates thus far).

And that gives the league every right to fire him. That being said, you can't be an advocate for free speech regardless of the consequences part of the time. When LeBron calls the president a bum, he cost the league money. It's not as much as what's going on now, but I'm sure there is at least one person who won't buy something because of his vocal political stance. Either "shut up and dribble" or be all in on being vocal. Don't just do it when it benefits you or at least be honest if you do.

 

[plm]

when we see the guys that hold themselves out to be social warriors of this generation fold like cheap suits when they have to personally sacrifice things my respect for a man like martin luther king jr increases exponentially. not necessary knocking our generations guys as much as honoring MLKjr. it takes alot of courage and honor to do what he did.

 

[tarheel0910]

Nothing that surprising here. The margin was somewhat higher than I expected though.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/15/moodys-trump-on-his-way-to-an-easy-2020-win-if-economy-holds-up.html

 

[Heels Noir]

Nothing that surprising here. The margin was somewhat higher than I expected though.