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I don't really care about star ratings aside from the impact on program perception and prestige. I watch as much "film" (usually highlights, unfortunately) as I can, I look at stats and try to judge them in context, and I look at measurables (height/wingspan/weight) when they're available. I draw the best conclusions I can given the available information. With that said, I know my personal evaluations are far from infallible; if a player has significant exposure and there is a consensus on his ranking, that's worth something.

I don't care that Coby White is ranked 48th in the 247 composite, for example. He's clearly one of the best players in the country, both in HS and as a college prospect. He's getting exposure now and will certainly shoot up in the rankings, but that won't change my opinion of him.

Re: Hamilton, you're kinda talking past the points I was making in that thread. I didn't say he was only missing a jumper. I said:
  • He's missing a jumper (and he's almost certainly not truly a 70% FT shooter; he's 17-24 so far, which is a tiny sample; he shot 49% in a larger sample last summer; the "truth" is probably somewhere in the 55%-60% range)
  • He's likely to struggle getting to the rim in college because of his relatively lack of quickness; if this is the case, he'll likely struggle with offensive fouls, other turnovers, and low percentage shots
  • His percentages from 2 in AAU are quite bad, suggesting deficiencies in some combination of shot selection, shot creation ability, and shot making ability
  • His rebounding is closer to that of a 2 than that of a 4, seriously hurting his viability as a small-ball 4
  • Overall, I don't think he's a versatile player who can fit into both positions; I think he's a player who might not fit into any position
I'm down on Hamilton because of a comprehensive (if, admittedly, amateur) evaluation of his game, not because of a single flaw or because of star rankings. Maybe I'm wrong - like I said, I'm an amateur...and even beyond that, some expect evaluations miss entirely - but my opinion has a lot of thought behind it. Saying "we pay way to much attention to a kids star rating and not nearly enough to traits a kid may have that allows him to excel in our system" is reductive at best, entirely inaccurate at worst.

Woooo, did ya think this post was directed at you? It was not, I simply used an example of the post you had yesterday. Don't be so sensitive...

So 17-24 is not enough sample size, we should trust what he shot LAST year rather than THIS year? Nah, players don't improve on weakness over time, what was I thinking...LOL

Soooo, you do not think he can play either the 3 or the 4 in college, well all...righty then, gosh I wonder why Roy is recruiting him?
 
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Appreciate the developed thoughts and in-depth evaluations that were posted on the last page. Here are some of my scattered thoughts:

1. Coby White will end up as a 5 star

2. The "problem" of 3 project bigs in the same class may resolve itself, as whoever doesn't develop (and consequently get playing time) over 2-3 years may transfer out. I know Roy does a great job building cohesion and there have been very few transfers, but it's not necessarily a bad thing (and it could be the best thing for the kid) if someone is riding the bench at a level that is too advanced for them, to then transfer to a lower level college team. I wouldn't be surprised if the big that develops least amongst Brooks/Huffman/Manley doesn't stay for 4 years.

3. Regarding 2018 recruiting, I think I understand why Roy is not throwing out mass offers to bigs. Assuming we don't have another freshman enroll this year, we'll be at 2 open scholarships for 2018 (1 open spot now, plus losing Tony, Joel, Theo; adding White and Black). That means we're really just hoping for one 5 star player and maybe one other addition. So if Hamilton commits we only have one spot left, and it'll certainly be held in case Zion/Langford/Brown/Bol/Reddish are interested. That means there's no openings to be throwing out offers to mid-level bigs. It has to be the guys Roy really likes, of which Hamilton is one. We've taken our depth bigs in the 2017 class rather than 2018. That makes sense rather than leaving the spots open for 2018, as sophomore Brooks/Huffman will probably be better than most of the 2018 4-stars.
 
3. Regarding 2018 recruiting, I think I understand why Roy is not throwing out mass offers to bigs. Assuming we don't have another freshman enroll this year, we'll be at 2 open scholarships for 2018 (1 open spot now, plus losing Tony, Joel, Theo; adding White and Black). That means we're really just hoping for one 5 star player and maybe one other addition. So if Hamilton commits we only have one spot left, and it'll certainly be held in case Zion/Langford/Brown/Bol/Reddish are interested. That means there's no openings to be throwing out offers to mid-level bigs. It has to be the guys Roy really likes, of which Hamilton is one. We've taken our depth bigs in the 2017 class rather than 2018. That makes sense rather than leaving the spots open for 2018, as sophomore Brooks/Huffman will probably be better than most of the 2018 4-stars.

Agreed

With Brooks' late commitment, we took our fill of bigs for 2017. The 2018 class is weaker compared to the big guys in 2019. Not to mention we're pretty late to the game in 2019 (probably for reasons mentioned).

If we get Black, White, Hamilton, and call it a class, we set ourselves up for some good ones in 2019.
 
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Appreciate the developed thoughts and in-depth evaluations that were posted on the last page. Here are some of my scattered thoughts:

1. Coby White will end up as a 5 star

2. The "problem" of 3 project bigs in the same class may resolve itself, as whoever doesn't develop (and consequently get playing time) over 2-3 years may transfer out. I know Roy does a great job building cohesion and there have been very few transfers, but it's not necessarily a bad thing (and it could be the best thing for the kid) if someone is riding the bench at a level that is too advanced for them, to then transfer to a lower level college team. I wouldn't be surprised if the big that develops least amongst Brooks/Huffman/Manley doesn't stay for 4 years.

3. Regarding 2018 recruiting, I think I understand why Roy is not throwing out mass offers to bigs. Assuming we don't have another freshman enroll this year, we'll be at 2 open scholarships for 2018 (1 open spot now, plus losing Tony, Joel, Theo; adding White and Black). That means we're really just hoping for one 5 star player and maybe one other addition. So if Hamilton commits we only have one spot left, and it'll certainly be held in case Zion/Langford/Brown/Bol/Reddish are interested. That means there's no openings to be throwing out offers to mid-level bigs. It has to be the guys Roy really likes, of which Hamilton is one. We've taken our depth bigs in the 2017 class rather than 2018. That makes sense rather than leaving the spots open for 2018, as sophomore Brooks/Huffman will probably be better than most of the 2018 4-stars.

I agree, would add that the big that develops most is not likely to be with us for 4yrs either, Brooks would be my suspect that may have NBA doors open allowing him early entry before the others.

I personally, at this point, not in love with the 2018 class for bigs, very top loaded but with a strong drop off to the second level guys. A guy like McCormick could help you but do ya take him when 2019 looks like a loaded class for big men? That IMO depends on how the freshman bigs play for us next season. Our real area of need from 2018 IMO s a wing to replace Theo, especially if we can get by with the big men we have coming next season.
 
I agree, would add that the big that develops most is not likely to be with us for 4yrs either, Brooks would be my suspect that may have NBA doors open allowing him early entry before the others.

I personally, at this point, not in love with the 2018 class for bigs, very top loaded but with a strong drop off to the second level guys. A guy like McCormick could help you but do ya take him when 2019 looks like a loaded class for big men? That IMO depends on how the freshman bigs play for us next season. Our real area of need from 2018 IMO s a wing to replace Theo, especially if we can get by with the big men we have coming next season.
Agreed. With the way things are now, the best of the 3 bigs could definitely be gone in less than 4 years too. They will get lots of exposure at UNC.

On McCormack, my thing with him is I've read a few people say he got outplayed by Brandon Huffman this past year? If McCormack is not better than Huffman we likely won't offer, nor should we. As I stated in the last post, we really only have room for a top level big at this point. We just can't take on another guy unless he is clearly above the 3 guys we have this year. McCormack is a year younger and it was just one game, so I am not declaring him worse than Huffman, but if he really got outplayed that would give me pause.

Based on my understanding from reading (I have minimal basketball evaluation skills, particularly from watching highlights of HS players) I think we'll take a wing like Hamilton/Hoard and hold out for one of the very top guys with our last scholarship spot.
 
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I agree, would add that the big that develops most is not likely to be with us for 4yrs either, Brooks would be my suspect that may have NBA doors open allowing him early entry before the others.

I personally, at this point, not in love with the 2018 class for bigs, very top loaded but with a strong drop off to the second level guys. A guy like McCormick could help you but do ya take him when 2019 looks like a loaded class for big men? That IMO depends on how the freshman bigs play for us next season. Our real area of need from 2018 IMO s a wing to replace Theo, especially if we can get by with the big men we have coming next season.

In my opinion UNC's freshman Bigs will be 4 year players unless they transfer. I just don't see major contributions until Jr. year. If TB doesn't return , then I think Roy goes small really often.
 
I basically agree , but don't think White will crack the top 10. It's like one (UNC)analyst said it's just hard to climb that far , unless other guys fall and he will need a lot of other guys to fall.

I normally agree, but White is really opening some eyes big time, its possible he could see a colin sexton like rise in the rankings if he keeps going. If I recall Sexton rose from about 80th to top 10. White is already ranked higher than where he was as well. I think Espn has had White in the top 25.
 
If Tony leaves, I think Brooks will start. Roy will play some small ball but it goes again his nature. Don't forget that many of us expected to see more small ball in '17 than we saw at the end of '16, and it didn't happen. Solid play from Tony and Luke was the main reason we didn't.

I have serious reservations about any small ball lineup with Luke in the middle, just can't see that lineup being effective against most teams in the ACC. So if Tony leaves, I look for Brooks or Huffman to start and those two to play nearly all, if not all the minutes at center. And I'll think they'll be adequate enough to allow us to challenge for the ACC regular season.

I very well could be wrong, we'll see. I realize I'm significantly higher on our freshmen bigs than many are.
 
Small ball is a myth around here. Every year Roy will "go small ball", and it never happens.
 
I have serious reservations about any small ball lineup with Luke in the middle, just can't see that lineup being effective against most teams in the ACC.

I very well could be wrong, we'll see. I realize I'm significantly higher on our freshmen bigs than many are.

1. It wont happen.

2. The naysayers will be eating crow once again.
 
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Wait, why would Luke be in the middle of small ball? That would be miniscule ball. When we play small (5-8 minutes situationally) it will be with TB or Brooks in the middle!

5. TB-Brooks
4. TP-Maye
3. Brob-TP
2. KW-Felton
1. JB-Woods

Roy could mix and match these combinations and find the most effective combo. There is some serious potential in these lineups!
 
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Someone said we could see a lot of small ball if Tony leaves. I was responding to that. If Tony returns, small ball becomes a viable option. His return would impact a lot of what we could potentially do.
 
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I don't get the way this has turned. Roy used a lot of small ball the last two years and has in the past. Many peeps want him to do it more, but he certainly does it. It will never be our main set, but will continue to be situational or based on fouls/injuries!

The two big, traditional set will be our go to and I don't see why that should change, but I do love when the little rascals get to scamper all over the court!
 
It is no such thing. Even with as many traditional Bigs as we had last season Roy often went small.

I don't remember it being as often as 2013. Roy always experiments with different lineups throughout the year, maybe why I missed it.
 
^
2013 team started JMM at the 5 and PJ/Reggie at 3/4
#SmallBall

Roy's had was basically forced there (in part by his own recruiting). Our bigs were McAdoo, Hubert, James, Johnson (as a freshman), and Jackson Simmons. Yikes.
 
Watched his clips and I hope we at least get some consideration. Nice looking shot, runs the floor, athletic, and no self-hype! Looks like a player Roy could really help grow into something special to me.
 
UNC reached out to Louis King on Thursday per his mother.


Saw Louis King at Hampton a few weekends ago. Good looking prospect and teammates with Cameron Reddish. The word going around the event was that he had attended/kicked out of multiple high schools and his grades would be an issue. I honestly don't know that to be true, just sharing what some of the talk was from various analysts and coaches.
 
I don't remember it being as often as 2013. Roy always experiments with different lineups throughout the year, maybe why I missed it.

Not as much last season (small ball) because Theo was out for so long and when he finally got back Kenny went down. But season before, from ACCT all the way to the final game, when you saw Theo and Justion on the floor together we were in a small ball look and we rode that a lot in that post season. It was usually with Brice or Hicks, some Meeks as the 1 big. Theo would shift to the 4 with Justin at the 3 but they would switch a lot, helped us on those high screens because we switched so fluidly between the 3 and 4 but our guards were smallish (Marcus and Joel + Nate).
 
^
King's issues are no secret, but don't pretend Duval is the prince of peace.
He will be right at home in the dook lockerrom.
 
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It seems like Manley's name is never mentioned. The kid led his team to the the semi-final game in the highest classification in Ohio coming off a broken fibula. Roy saw something in this kid. I'm going on record saying that he will do much better than many of you are expecting.
 
It seems like Manley's name is never mentioned. The kid led his team to the the semi-final game in the highest classification in Ohio coming off a broken fibula. Roy saw something in this kid. I'm going on record saying that he will do much better than many of you are expecting.

Manley wasn't Pickerington Central's best player; sophomore PG Jeremiah Francis was. Manley has height, length, hands, and touch, but his impact on games was pretty underwhelming.
 
It seems like Manley's name is never mentioned. The kid led his team to the the semi-final game in the highest classification in Ohio coming off a broken fibula. Roy saw something in this kid. I'm going on record saying that he will do much better than many of you are expecting.

You also proclaimed he would be a 5 star by the end of the season.
 
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