Wasted time...

[Archer2]

Roy and Staff:

Please be advised that it has been determined that you are wasting your time recruiting the following players. We are only telling you this because you don't seem to have figured it out and we only have your and the team's best interests at heart.

Zion
Shittu

Any more?

We will gladly use our sources to provide a list of recruits that you should be concentrating on. Just ask and it will be forthcoming. You can thank us later.

 

[Steat]

Roy and Staff:

Please be advised that it has been determined that you are wasting your time recruiting the following players. We are only telling you this because you don't seem to have figured it out and we only have your and the team's best interests at heart.

Zion
Shittu

Any more?

We will gladly use our sources to provide a list of recruits that you should be concentrating on. Just ask and it will be forthcoming. You can thank us later.

Arch, on top of this, Zion just did an interview the other day and UNC was not mentioned. Rival coaches are preaching that UNC is a "developmental" school. It is a unison attack by rival coaches that is drilled in the heads of these OAD recruits.

 

[soap - new and improved]

Roy and Staff:

Please be advised that it has been determined that you are wasting your time recruiting the following players. We are only telling you this because you don't seem to have figured it out and we only have your and the team's best interests at heart.

Zion
Shittu

Any more?

We will gladly use our sources to provide a list of recruits that you should be concentrating on. Just ask and it will be forthcoming. You can thank us later.

I trust you post this with tongue-in-cheek.

 

[pln2013]

This is obviously a joke, but there's some truth to it.

The probability of us getting Zion is, based on the available information, somewhere around 1%. That number is arbitrary, but you get the idea.

With that said, the trickier question is: what is the cost? If it's just a question about how Roy uses his time, it's not a big issue. There's enough time for Roy to take every allowed visit for every player we're recruiting, plus quite a few more. So in that sense, it's not a waste of time if that's how Roy wants to use it.

If he's prioritizing Zion at the expense of a prospect we have a real shot at, that's where there's a legitimate downside. And that's hard to evaluate.

 

[alabamaheel]

Arch, on top of this, Zion just did an interview the other day and UNC was not mentioned. Rival coaches are preaching that UNC is a "developmental" school. It is a unison attack by rival coaches that is drilled in the heads of these OAD recruits.

Well Steat if its true then UNC is the best place for Zion to "develop" a shot! I too believe he is a waste of recruiting time, but not because of our chances. I'm not on the Zion train at all. IMO of course, I think he is in for a surprise even at the college level. He goes left and can dunk really well. He is a freak that is already in a mans body. Those things will get him places, but he needs to learn to shoot more than a 5' and in shot. I know I'm the minority in this thinking, but that is the great thing about us all; we are diff.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I haven't been on the Zion train for the reasons you mentioned above. At the next level when he plays against folks of equal size and athleticism, he will be forced to show his skill. Don't get me wrong, he has good skill and deserves a high recruit ranking however, he needs to develop a jump shot, one he can hit off the dribble and off the catch, as well as the ability to go right and score consistently off the dribble. He's entirely too one dimensional because he's been able to overpower his competition for much of his career with his body.

 

[pln2013]

At the next level when he plays against folks of equal size and athleticism

Those folks don't exist. He's one of the most insane combinations of bulk and athleticism to ever play basketball. That's not an exaggeration; he's an outlier.

He may eventually find that his hyper-athletic bully-ball doesn't work anymore, but I wouldn't bet on that happening in college.

 

[DSouthr]

Roy is going to recruit who he recruits and nothing I say here or anyone else says is going to change that. Having said that, there are players that he goes hard for at times where the writing is just on the wall. A couple great examples that jump out for me are Julius Randle and Zion. Yeah, those guys include/included UNC on their lists but we really had/have no shot with them. Other times we have a great shot with a kid and all the sudden an "advisor" steps in and begins looking to strike a deal or a parent begins to listen to the hype machine and begins to believe they know more than the coach, those things just do not work out well for us.

I do think Roy has adjusted the last few seasons who he recruits but I do think he gets stuck on kids from time to time, Zion for example, IMO Langford as another. Personally, I would like to see Roy stay east of the Mississippi because those western recruits (especially Cali) just seem to get to flirt with us but in the end go elsewhere. FYI, I still think Zion ends up playing for Frank Martin and langford ends up with Pitino.

 

[Heels5150]

A development school huh? That is a huge compliment. Of course the kids do not see it that way because of their bus stop mentality and near sightedness. John Henson's Dad I think put it best. " it's not how fast you can get to the NBA but how long you stay in the NBA ". Michael Jordan has said numerous times that if it wasn't for Dean Smith and UNC that he Never would have become the player that he was. The GOAT. Now you have these kids ( who I cannot blame them) who's careers are going to be ruined because they do not know the fundamentals of the game. NBA coaches are going to have to teach these "Professional" kids how to set a screen and much more all because they lack the Experience, Coaching and Mental Toughness. Most will wash out. There are a few that will make it but everyone suffers. The Game suffers. The NBA, NCAA, coaches, parents and sadly the kids. Agents won't of course. Enjoy the journey. It will better prepare you for everything in life and the game. Be a part of something Special. By the way we have been sending our guys Early to the NBA since the Seventies. But, they were coached, seasoned, experienced and most importantly ready. They always had their "Tar Heel Family" there for them for advice and counsel. Go back to the Basics.

 

[Heelswin]

Roy and Staff:

Please be advised that it has been determined that you are wasting your time recruiting the following players. We are only telling you this because you don't seem to have figured it out and we only have your and the team's best interests at heart.

Zion
Shittu

Any more?

We will gladly use our sources to provide a list of recruits that you should be concentrating on. Just ask and it will be forthcoming. You can thank us later.

Funny ... UK said the same thing to UNC re Tyler H a few years back!

 

[Heelswin]

No love coming our way from Z!

 

[FlaTarHeel]

Roy is going to recruit who he recruits and nothing I say here or anyone else says is going to change that.

I do think Roy has adjusted the last few seasons who he recruits .

 

[BillyL]

 

[dadika13]

Kind of a tough argument you make here for yourself Arch..you need one of them to commit for it to be valid. Neither is coming here man.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

I am happy with the players he is getting, a three star 4th year senior is as good as a 5 star 1st year player just from experience in big games..

 

[Archer2]

Kind of a tough argument you make here for yourself Arch..you need one of them to commit for it to be valid. Neither is coming here man.

It was tongue in cheek. And if one of those two committed, it would invalidate that argument, not validate it.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

I am happy with the players he is getting, a three star 4th year senior is as good as a 5 star 1st year player just from experience in big games..

I agree.
He's not as talented, but he may be as "productive" as a 1 year guy.

 

[pln2013]

I am happy with the players he is getting, a three star 4th year senior is as good as a 5 star 1st year player just from experience in big games..

Numerous programs are built on 4-year 3-star players. They don't consistently compete for anything. We've played in the last two championship games because of 4- and 5-star players.

In many cases I'd happily take the 3/4-year kid ranked between 30 and 60 over one-and-done 5-stars. But those kids aren't 3-stars.

 

[Archer2]

In many cases I'd happily take the 3/4-year kid ranked between 30 and 60 over one-and-done 5-stars. But those kids aren't 3-stars.

Yep, our program is sustained by those players, mostly 4* guys.

 

[Archer2]

A development school huh? That is a huge compliment. Of course the kids do not see it that way because of their bus stop mentality and near sightedness. John Henson's Dad I think put it best. " it's not how fast you can get to the NBA but how long you stay.

Amen. Any kid that doesn't want to go to a school that will develop them can go to one of the OAD factories, like the one right down 15-501.

 

[Tom79]

Curious in the recruiting world, is a highly regarded recruit setting his last official at UNC meaningful? Or a "waste of time". Same kid Roy visited on Sunday...

 

[TPFKAPFS]

We are adults (at least using age as an indicator) so we can all see that the developmental label should be an overwhelming positive. Unfortunately, recruits are still children for the most part despite their grown man bodies. Children these days want instant gratification and avoid anything that looks difficult or demanding like the plague! (obvious generalization) The good news is they do pay attention to TV coverage, history of getting kids drafted, and winning Nattys! Roy is awesome at cutting through the junk so the youngsters can see what is real!

And I agree that an elite recruit deciding to visit us as one of his 5, especially the last, is never a waste of time. It is an opportunity and Roy is good when given a puncher's chance!

 

[Archer2]

Recruits want instant gratification and avoid anything that looks difficult or demanding like the plague! (obvious generalization) The good news is they do pay attention to TV coverage, history of getting kids drafted, and winning Nattys! Roy is awesome at cutting through the junk so the youngsters can see what is real!

And I agree that an elite recruit deciding to visit us as one of his 5, especially the last, is never a waste of time. It is an opportunity and Roy is good when given a puncher's chance!

Yes indeed.

 

[dadika13]

In many cases I'd happily take the 3/4-year kid ranked between 30 and 60 over one-and-done 5-stars. But those kids aren't 3-stars.

This is what a lot of people don't recognize while they praise all of our 3 stars and say "we win with all levels of players".

That's not really true. Our championship and even final four teams are absolutely littered with 4 and 5 star, upperclassmen players.

 

[pln2013]

This is what a lot of people don't recognize while they praise all of our 3 stars and say "we win with all levels of players".

That's not really true. Our championship and even final four teams are absolutely littered with 4 and 5 star, upperclassmen players.

Seriously. Our combination of talent (per rankings) and experience the last two years has really been exceptional.

A lineup of a 4-star junior (Berry), a 5-star junior (Theo), a 5-star junior (Jackson), a 5-star senior (Hicks), and a 4-star senior (Meeks) is incredible in this era.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

In the end Its how they play, Luke Played in the Tournament like a 4 star , Hicks played most of the tourney like a 3 star...

 

[pln2013]

In the end Its how they play, Luke Played in the Tournament like a 4 star , Hicks played most of the tourney like a 3 star...

Everyone forgets that Maye scored 2 points in 23 minutes and had more fouls than rebounds in the Final Four. We were carried by our highly-ranked starters.

 

[dadika13]

In the end Its how they play, Luke Played in the Tournament like a 4 star , Hicks played most of the tourney like a 3 star...

Yikes....

Luke in the final 4...23 total minutes...0/4 FG, 5 rebounds, 6 fouls.

Certainly Hicks didn't look like a 3 star when he was making the shot that...you know...won us a freaking national championship. Oh...and 13 points with 9 boards in the championship game.

 

[dadika13]

In the end Its how they play, Luke Played in the Tournament like a 4 star , Hicks played most of the tourney like a 3 star...

You take Luke, Platek, Huff, Manley, and Stillman as your 5 and I'll take Joel, Theo, Justin, Hicks, and Meeks as mine. $1000 to the winner. You doing that?

 

[NCAAUCoach]

There is a big talent drop off coming. Roy has averaged 5-6 McD’s AA on his rosters and we are about to go to 0-1. That’s huge. Roy needs talent to win. That’s not a knock on him, but his Titles have been when he has talent.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Until next year! ( I believe we have talent though)

 

[heels05champs]

There is a big talent drop off coming. Roy has averaged 5-6 McD’s AA on his rosters and we are about to go to 0-1. That’s huge. Roy needs talent to win. That’s not a knock on him, but his Titles have been when he has talent.

Very true statement. We are about to enter uncharted waters with a Roy Williams roster. Starting next year, we will be relatively young, inexperienced and made up of mostly 3* and 4* players.

 

[Archer2]

And by the time our bigs are juniors, we'll be making another trip back to the FF.

 

[trestyles]

Everyone forgets that Maye scored 2 points in 23 minutes and had more fouls than rebounds in the Final Four. We were carried by our highly-ranked starters.

Accurate.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

What I remember is that Bird looked comfortable with the ball in his hands; has moves and counter moves; plays smart bball; is a natural rebounder; has a reliable perimeter game and is not afraid to drive; and made some pretty athletic dudes look stupid! (BTW: we only needed two points from him to win the Natty!) #perspective!

Stats tell me much less than my eyes do. This might be why I believe some peeps watch different games than I do at times.

 

[dadika13]

(BTW: we only needed two points from him to win the Natty!) #perspective!
.

This makes ABSOLUTELY zero sense if you're defending Luke in this argument.

 

[gauchoheel]

Very true statement. We are about to enter uncharted waters with a Roy Williams roster. Starting next year, we will be relatively young, inexperienced and made up of mostly 3* and 4* players.

There is a big talent drop off coming. Roy has averaged 5-6 McD’s AA on his rosters and we are about to go to 0-1. That’s huge. Roy needs talent to win. That’s not a knock on him, but his Titles have been when he has talent.

Well, it's not impossible we could have 2 or even 3 McD AA's commit this year. White, Little, and possibly Black? Could happen. And Jalek should have been one. We still will have less depth than previous years due to Tony leaving so early and the lack of top commits, but that would stem the tide somewhat.

I think Little is a pretty important player for us, or if not him then someone like him. We need more frontcourt players to go with all of our guards.

 

[DSouthr]

I will take what I see in a player before I get worried about star ranking prior to playing in college. Find it interesting, I see Hicks used in this argument as a 5 star guy, I as well see Theo used also as a 5 star guy, Justin as well. But by definition a 5 star guy is supposed to be a guy touted as being a 1st round pick after4 a freshman season in college, that is the basis of the ranking. Truth is not one of those fellas were able to do that. A 4 star from my understanding is expected to be a 2nd round pick after their frosh season, maybe Justin at most and that is a stretch could have been drafted at all after their frosh seasons.

So rather than be 5 or 4 stars, they were actually more 3 stars, no matter what they were ranked as prior to college, they all needed a lot of development time in order for the NBA to be ready to draft them. Not one of those 3 were big time players for us as freshmen, Justin was the only 1 that started for us and he was a role player as a frosh. I am not dumping on these kids but to say Roy needs big time talent in order to win just isn't proven by using star rankings, Roy has not had a clear 1 and done kid since Barnes and even Barnes stayed for a soph season, only because the NBA strike was a concern for him.

Tony went 1 & done but really, he was fortunate to get that 1st round spot, he was more a clear 2nd rounder by most and by definition would have been 4star. These star rankings do not always tell you exactly what you are getting is my point, they should all come with the word potential before the number, as in potential 5 star but to be 5 star you have to actually end up 5 star, drafted 1st round after your frosh season.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

This makes ABSOLUTELY zero sense if you're defending Luke in this argument.

Why Not those were biggest 2 of the tourney? And you gave his final four numbers like he was doing nothing when he won regional MVP a week prior, give those number too its a full tournament not a 2 game tourney..

 

[pln2013]

Why Not those were biggest 2 of the tourney? And you gave his final four numbers like he was doing nothing when he won regional MVP a week prior, give those number too its a full tournament not a 2 game tourney..

He's scored in double figures six times in two years.

He had an excellent pair of games and a brilliant moment, but his perception has run away from reality.