Whitmore feels wanted at UNC
- Thread starter Tom79
- Start date
I think we could use a little bit of pumping the brakes here, the tone of this thread concerning Whitmore and maybe even my words about Nichel, seem to strike me as a feeling that these 2 guys are absolutely critical guys. IN other words the tone seems to be that getting one of them is a strong need as opposed to a strong want. I am actually of the opposite view, I see both as solid wants but not as much critical need guys. While I do want us to add one of the 2, while I do think we are in good position to do just that, I do feel we are still in great shape if we are not able to snag either. So I feel little to no panic considering their decisions.
I do think we already have a lot of talent (even if much of it has not yet been proven) at the wing. I am looking at guys like Leaky, Puff, Styles and that wing cupboard looks pretty darn full. I look at our ability to go small at the wing with guys like Ant Harris and Dunn and maybe even Walton. While granted, Puff, Styles, and Dunn have not proven by their play as Tar Heels what they can give us, Whitmore nor Nichel have either. Ant has not yet shown he can be a reliable scorer but now finally having a full off season to work on his game as opposed to rehabbing doesn't mean he has proven he can't score consistently.
And Leaky, well our concerns aside for the moment, we know his shooting is a concern but he is a 2yr starter, he is by far our most experienced player, and he will have 1 more season of eligibility after this one. You tell me, to the team as a whole, who would be more valuable, a really long 5th yr super senior in Leaky or a freshman Whitmore who isn't exactly a known knock down jump shooter? Really, it is the soph and beyond versions of either Whitmore or Nichel I would like to add but by then there will be other recruits and likely portal options that may shine brighter than either Whitmore or Nichel do for us today. So I consider both these kids wants much more than needs and I say that is why we will be great with them and we will be great without them, either way.
I do suspect that by the end of this coming season that we will have much more need for another big man than need for a wing, I did see Traudt as much more a need guy than Whitmore or Nichel (and yet still more want than need) but even that depends on decisions by Bacot and Garcia.
I do think we already have a lot of talent (even if much of it has not yet been proven) at the wing. I am looking at guys like Leaky, Puff, Styles and that wing cupboard looks pretty darn full. I look at our ability to go small at the wing with guys like Ant Harris and Dunn and maybe even Walton. While granted, Puff, Styles, and Dunn have not proven by their play as Tar Heels what they can give us, Whitmore nor Nichel have either. Ant has not yet shown he can be a reliable scorer but now finally having a full off season to work on his game as opposed to rehabbing doesn't mean he has proven he can't score consistently.
And Leaky, well our concerns aside for the moment, we know his shooting is a concern but he is a 2yr starter, he is by far our most experienced player, and he will have 1 more season of eligibility after this one. You tell me, to the team as a whole, who would be more valuable, a really long 5th yr super senior in Leaky or a freshman Whitmore who isn't exactly a known knock down jump shooter? Really, it is the soph and beyond versions of either Whitmore or Nichel I would like to add but by then there will be other recruits and likely portal options that may shine brighter than either Whitmore or Nichel do for us today. So I consider both these kids wants much more than needs and I say that is why we will be great with them and we will be great without them, either way.
I do suspect that by the end of this coming season that we will have much more need for another big man than need for a wing, I did see Traudt as much more a need guy than Whitmore or Nichel (and yet still more want than need) but even that depends on decisions by Bacot and Garcia.
Read a piece that mentioned "either or", someone has a decision to make.
IMO, Cam might not stay as long as Tyler so I'm gonna lean Tyler.
IMO, Cam might not stay as long as Tyler so I'm gonna lean Tyler.
Cam will turn out to be the BEST of the group, imo...
Quite possibly so! I think we can hit the transfer market and get 2 quality players in the off season..Hubert did great in the portal this year, so if we don’t sign anyone else...I’m sure he hits it hard again
Whitmore IS WANTED at UNC! Dont fall for the Villanova stuff, come to the hill!!
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Nichel is about to come on his visit, Whitmore has finished his visits (I think he has anyway). This is VERY much a 1 but not both situation so if Whitmore really wants UNC I would think he would have or be primed to announce PRIOR to Nichel's visit. At very least he would let Hubert know his thinking and we would maybe see the Nichel visit cancelled and that has not happened.
So how does Zion Cruz factor in to any of this, I am thinking maybe as leverage to make the 2 guys we are actually interested in feel the need to go ahead and make a decision because Hubert knows, if the kid can not get in past Auburns admissions there is no way he gets thru ours. Would any of you buy the line that Pearl let a kid this talented go because he had some other kid he wanted more, you don't buy that any more than I do. Before anyone responds to that as suggesting Hubert is making a dirty move understand, I do NOT believe UNC has had the op to review Cruz's academics but word is that Auburn has and they would not allow him thru so Hubert knows without having had UNC decide if they could admit him. It is a smart move by Hubert, actually a vet coach move that you would expect from a head coach with a heck of a lot more experience than Hubert has. IN poker, you have to flush out the suckers from the ones with the real hands and the guy that runs the hard bluff is the guy to do that.
Me, I personally LOVE the fact that it looks like Nichel will visit us before he makes his decision, you guys already know what I think of that kid, I want him more than Whitmore and have said that now for how many months? I do think that Nichel was very close to pulling the trigger for Va Tech because it looked like Whitmore was about to pull the trigger for us but Whitmore seems to have hesitated and re-opened the door for Nichel. I now believe we will see a commit from at least 1 of these guys ( I actually think we will see them both announce their commits) by Thurs next week, could be sooner. IN the end we could very well end up with neither of these guys but I do think we get one of them and you guys know who I hope that is. LOL
So how does Zion Cruz factor in to any of this, I am thinking maybe as leverage to make the 2 guys we are actually interested in feel the need to go ahead and make a decision because Hubert knows, if the kid can not get in past Auburns admissions there is no way he gets thru ours. Would any of you buy the line that Pearl let a kid this talented go because he had some other kid he wanted more, you don't buy that any more than I do. Before anyone responds to that as suggesting Hubert is making a dirty move understand, I do NOT believe UNC has had the op to review Cruz's academics but word is that Auburn has and they would not allow him thru so Hubert knows without having had UNC decide if they could admit him. It is a smart move by Hubert, actually a vet coach move that you would expect from a head coach with a heck of a lot more experience than Hubert has. IN poker, you have to flush out the suckers from the ones with the real hands and the guy that runs the hard bluff is the guy to do that.
Me, I personally LOVE the fact that it looks like Nichel will visit us before he makes his decision, you guys already know what I think of that kid, I want him more than Whitmore and have said that now for how many months? I do think that Nichel was very close to pulling the trigger for Va Tech because it looked like Whitmore was about to pull the trigger for us but Whitmore seems to have hesitated and re-opened the door for Nichel. I now believe we will see a commit from at least 1 of these guys ( I actually think we will see them both announce their commits) by Thurs next week, could be sooner. IN the end we could very well end up with neither of these guys but I do think we get one of them and you guys know who I hope that is. LOL
D- I was under the impression that Whitmore was going to be visiting Villanova the same weekend (THIS weekend) that Nickel was on UNC's campus?
I'd be happy with either. Nickel's shooting or Whitmore's athleticism would both do well here. I just hope we don't miss out on both, which is a possibility.
It is a very real possibility, was thinking Whitmore had visited Villanova but his visit there may be this weekend, either way, I am glad to see Nichel visit UNC because it means we get his last visit and the spot has not yet been taken.
Whether we get one or neither of Whitmore/Nickel, yes, Fall recruiting is (most likely) done, unless something falls into our laps. Don't be surprised however to see us on a new target or two in the Spring.
My error on visit dates. Nickel does visit this weekend but Whitmore doesn't visit Nova until 9/17.
Kinda makes you wonder if Nickel wanted to commit before Whitmore visits Nova, if Coach would hold out for Whitmore and give him first right of refusal or take first come, first serve. Seems like up till now, Nickel's timeline had been motivating Whitmore to move???
Kinda makes you wonder if Nickel wanted to commit before Whitmore visits Nova, if Coach would hold out for Whitmore and give him first right of refusal or take first come, first serve. Seems like up till now, Nickel's timeline had been motivating Whitmore to move???
I'm not sure I agree. I mean you could be right, but....
Whitmore's and Nickel's skill sets seem different enough that I bet both would be excellent additions to the squad. They could easily be on the floor together. And if our opponent has one of them figured out, bringing in the other should trip them up.
Considering who we have, we don't need both, but that doesn't mean we couldn't put both to good use.
I'm assuming Leaky is gone, and McKoy works to be much more a 4 than a 3 (if he knows both Whitmore and Nickel are coming in).
And while I certainly won't be shocked if both Armando and Dawson leave at the end of this season, I also won't be too surprised if one of them sticks around for 1 more season.
I wonder where Armando might end up on the shooting and rebounding lists if he's here all 4 years. Hansbrough's FT records aren't in jeopardy, but Armando might end up in the elite group for some measures.
I figure if Whitmore and Nickel both want to be here, we welcome them aboard unless we are sure we need to hold onto a scholarship for another big man.
Nichel, I think has a much more filled out frame than Hurt had, that kid (Hurt) was a bean pole rail thin 4 when he got to Durham. Have not compared the listed weights, just going off the eye test. FYI, I do not trust listed heights and weights because they are nearly always fudged. Hurt was Puff Johnson thin, heck he may have been even thinner than Puff (as a freshman, Puff has added 15lbs this off season) and that is saying something.
Hubert is looking to bring in 1 more wing, he simply is not going to bring in 2 more wings from this class. I have critiqued Leaky's play hard but as a 5th year super senior playing season after the one coming, Leaky IMO will be more valuable than either of these kids. Leaky is not a Platek type scenario, aside from his glaring weakness as a shooter, Leaky is a solid guy in most other aspects of the game. His experience is just to valuable to force him to transfer. If Hubert were to bring in both Whitmore and Nichel then someone is going to be forced to transfer and I don't see a guy now on our roster that I want to see transfer, I see 2 from last year's roster and both did transfer, well technically 1 is trying to find a landing spot now. I want to see leaky used in a manner that allows him to play more within his strengths than forcing him in to situations that show his weakness. I do think less lane congestion vastly helps this.
Just curious why you think Leaky would get a 5th year? He wasn’t a highly rated recruit and he has done nothing in 3 years - 36% shooter is beyond sorry. Platek was a 41% shooter in his career for point of reference. Sure we might not take Whitmore and Nickel - but Leaky is not going to be a factor In that decision whatsoever. Not sure why you keep offering that repeatedly in this thread - it’s beyond ridiculous.
Oh no you don’t. You don’t get to change this late in the game. You said he was commeth so you better get him here.
But Nickel very likely is.
Staff thought so as well... until they didn't
Seriously though, Whitmore was gonna become a harder pull the further removed he was from his (very good) visit, and that's the way it worked out.
Absolutely, soon as time went by and no word on an announcement, I had a feeling it wouldn’t be good for us.
LOL, Ridiculous is not realizing the value of a 5th year senior knowing that Leaky has another season of eligibility after this coming season. How much leaky would play as a 5th year senior depends on how guys like Puff, Nichel, Dunn, Styles, and McKoy play. If those guys do not step up big, Leaky could play a lot.
I offer leaky multiple times in this thread because it is simple fact, he is a factor and used a bit differently, not having to bounce around multiple positions, not dealing with injury, Leaky can be productive. He is not going to be a solid jump shooter, that isn't his game but there is more to the sport than just shooting the ball and Leaky is pretty darn good at many of the other aspects of the game.
You do realize don't you that there are actually 2 ends of the court, on 1 end we play offense and on the other end we defend, you do know that right? Do you understand that for his faults, Leaky may well be our best defender on the roster, a guy capable of totally shutting down his defensive assignment, if you do not realize that maybe you should ask Jim Bohiem or his son about Leaky.
Brooks was better than Leaky at every stage of his college career, and I don't think Brooks would add that much value to this year's team. I think it's fair to be skeptical of Leaky. He needs to be WAY better to be a strong piece. His offense is too wrecked for a guy who's not a huge difference maker on defense.
Either way, Nickel will likely be a lightly used sub freshman the sole year Leaky even has a chance to be on the team. I don't see why Leaky has much relevance to his recruitment.
Washington - Trimble - Shaver - Nickel is a great class and we'd still have time for spring / transfers. Fingers crossed!
He's the one I wanted all along!
When I read the past tea-leaves, there was too much sugar in the cup.
It clouded my judgment!
Whitmore who??
When I read the past tea-leaves, there was too much sugar in the cup.
It clouded my judgment!
Whitmore who??
Exactly! If Whitmore didint want to be here its his choice, its hard to argue that Villanova is a bad landing spot, they have a hell of a coach and have won a lot so to each his own. But we want people that want to be here, so lets go Tyler!He's the one I wanted all along!
When I read the past tea-leaves, there was too much sugar in the cup.
It clouded my judgment!
Whitmore who??
Whitmore is in a great spot! He doesn't lose no matter which way he goes. I would love to see him suit up in Tar Heel blue, but I don't fault him if he chooses Nova either! We will get a good one at some point even if both of these guys decide against us this time! It is great to be back to this position and to know we will win big no matter what!
Respectfully gaucho, I do agree with some of that but not all. First, yeah, I wish Leaky shot the ball better but I also recall wanting Theo to shoot it better, Jackie to shoot it better (used those 2 because they were some what similar). Last season was a strange team, we had multiple guys that could shoot but really only 1 was a dependable shooter. I did not like Leaky putting up treys but he is wide open and our better shooters were wrapped up, wish he was instructed that he had a red light on shots outside of mid range. But a lot of his treys were taken late in the shot clock so he had to put it up. But other aspects of the game Leaky was actually solid in, it is just fans place so much of a premium on jump shooting in todays game if you are weak at that you are assumed to be weak over all. IN contrast, be a really good jump shooter and play matador defense, as was the case with Walton last season you are considered to be a great asset?
Brooks, in my opinion, really disappointed last season from several aspects. Now I know Roy called him "perfect" but that was coach speak, my eyes watched poor senior leadership from him on the court and I have been told there was a bit of a "I deserve" special treatment from him both on and off the court. We played better when Brooks was not on the court as a team, witness the late season game that Brooks did not play in, double sweet blow out! I saw a LOT of half ass effort from him and I saw the ball not often leave his hands once he touched it. I didn't see a guy that gave all out effort, I didn't see a guy moving his younger front court guys in to solid position so the lane would not be as clogged as it was. I started noticing the season before where Brooks would sulk if the ball didn't get to him when he thought it should, more than once I watched him give up and even try to block out sulking because he didn't get the ball, argue fouls, sorry but struck me as selfish play.
I didn't see any of that with Leaky, but yes I did see Leaky play poorly in some games. Defensively, Leaky did struggle some but it looked to me that he did because he was trying to help out our younger defenders and could not get back to his primary assignment in time. All I have ever heard about Leaky is that he is a great team mate and really good chemistry guy, as much as many do not like to hear, heard similar things about PLatek.
I have critiqued Leaky's play hard but I do as well realize his value so yeah, he is a factor at our wing position. I do think he can lose a lot of PT with the upgrade in talent we have at the wing position but even that is yet to be seen. Nichel, I see him as a freshman being more of a end of the rotation guy, not blue steel but a guy in our regular rotation but with lower minutes, could surprise me but that is my thinking right now, thought Kerwin would be that last season and he broke out. All freshmen (4 and 5 star level freshmen) make the decision to play at the school they end up at thinking the have a chance to start, when they get there they realize it is harder than they realized. Anyone at their playing position is a factor in that decision. Our wing spot looks like there will be PT to be had right now because Puff/Styles/Leaky have not blown up yet so it looks right now differently than it would after next season if I assume those already in line at the wing have the seasons I think they may have.
I wouldn't count Dunn in that equation because of his size. Same reason I don't count Kerwin, even though he has played more than a little at SF.
Similarly, I'm guessing Hubert has advised McKoy (6'8 215) to prepare for most of his minutes at PF, not SF. That could change, of course, if we pick up another big man or 2 from the portal next spring. But otherwise our front court looks small and young (assuming everyong leaves who's expected to leave).
So the remaining options are
6'8 195 - Leaky (if he's still here)
6'8 190 - Puff
6'7 205 - Styles
6'8 210 - Nickel
They'll be competing for 40 minutes of PT at SF and maybe as much as 20 minutes of PT at PF. Does that sound about right?
Since I never expect too much from true freshmen unless they are obviously ready, and since we haven't seen much from Puff or anything from Styles, yet, it looks like there could be plenty of PT available for Leaky. Especially if he can muscle up and play at PF.
The real questions, I think are whether he wants to be here, and whether Hubert wants him here.
I have not clue about what Leaky wants. He's been given a rough ride by a lot of fans for 3 years. Mostly unjustified, imo, but nevertheless true. Does that bother him? Does it make him want to move on? Does it make him burn to make the nay-sayers eat crow?
He didn't enter the portal this year. He certainly could have. Plenty of good schools would love to have a guy with his experience, length, versatility, and defense.
With Puff, Styles and McKoy coming for his minutes, if he was concerned about PT, why did he stay?
Similarly, if Hubert had indicated he wouldn't start him or play him as much, why did he stay?
Seems to me, the only thing keeping Leaky from earning decent money playing basketball is his lousy shooting. Ordinarily, this would be his last year to develop that. If he does, I expect him to play overseas rather than exercising his 5th year option. If he's close, he might try the portal, to see if some other coach can get him over the hump. If he doesn't improve this season, but Puff and or Styles or McKoy do very well, Hubert may show him the door.
Just stop - You sound totally ridiculous. He’s not going to be a 5th year senior at UNC. Why you keep offering that nobody has any idea. He has been below average for 3 years but you think he will be a solid 5th year guy based on? We can’t recruit anyone better then Leaky Black? You have to be kidding me.
I've been a pretty big Leaky supporter and I get that a 5th year senior could add valuable experience to a roster. However, thus far, his deficiencies have outweighed whatever contribution his experience would make. Maybe he takes a giant step this year and becomes the player we all thought he might be. Maybe Hubert unlocks his potential in a way that Roy couldn't. But short of that, I personally think us parting with Leaky after this year (his 4th in the program) would be beneficial to both parties.
I welcome Leaky with open arms and hope he stays as long as he likes! His sacrifice and hard work have earned him this consideration AND Family doesn't abandon its own! Leaky's benefit from leadership alone would help a young team even though I expect him to be a much more effective player on offense this year!
Oh my, what is up, did your doctor go on vacation and forget to leave a refill for your meds?
How do you know for a fact that Leaky will leave after this coming season, you have no idea what kind of season Leaky will have, you are GUESSING! Now it may well be your opinion but that is all it is, just your opinion so don't even try to offer it as fact! If you need to see ridiculous, look in the mirror, simple as that, get some sleep, maybe your mind will come back to you because to me, you are making a fool out of yourself.
