you could almost feel the liberalism in the photons exuding from that unholy newsfeed and jumping off the screen at me. Made my skin crawl a little. Always does.
Is Mr. Floyd's Death Being Used To Change All Of Society?
- Thread starter ChapelHeeled
- Start date
No matter your race or your gender or your age or your location on the political spectrum between leftist liberal to ultra conservative, if you can watch the video of Mr. Chauvin using his knee to squeeze the life out of Mr. Floyd for more than eight minutes and suggest that Mr. Chauvin's actions did not cause Mr. Floyd's death, you are incorrect.
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as I posted sometime back, the original coroners report DID lay his death on the drugs he had consumed, but then he changed it. And another coroner just plain said the drugs were the primary cause of death. This is what I meant by the media carrying out a lynching...if there was any fairness or regard for the truth, these facts would be prominently reported. Instead, what's been reported is mostly what lends itself to the racist cop narrative, and this cop has to overcome that.
Another thing that bothers me is that everyone assumes that the cop was putting some crushing pressure on Floyd's neck, with no evidence at all to support that. He might very well have been barely touching his neck.
Call me a cynic, but I think the jury selection will prove to be a much bigger determinant of the outcome of the case than the actual facts or presentation of arguments within it.
And I say this without knowing anything about anyone picked.
And I say this without knowing anything about anyone picked.
You are exactly right. The jury selection was a big deal here in Minneapolis and took a long time - a couple weeks to choose 15 jurors. 12 + 3 alternates. Interesting to hear the various jurors takes on police, BLM, race relations, the riots, etc.
A pretty diverse jury bit more white 30-50 something women than any other demo IIRC.
ETA: here are the jury demos:
Court is adjourned until Monday. Here are the final fifteen jurors — the first twelve are regulars, the others alternates — presented by the court:
• No. 2: white male; 20s
• No. 9: multi/mixed-race woman; 20s
• No. 19: white male; 30s
• No. 27: black male; 30s
• No. 44: white woman; 50s
• No. 52: black male; 30s
• No. 55: white woman; 50s
• No. 79: black male; 40s
• No. 85: multi/mixed-race woman; 40s
• No. 89: white woman; 50s
• No. 91: black woman; 60s
• No. 92: white woman; 40s
• No. 96: white woman; 50s
• No. 118: white woman; 20s
• No. 131: white man; 20s
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where are you getting this info about coroners changing their reports and one listing drugs as the cause? Three different medical examiners listed homicide as cod from asphyxiation due to back and neck compression. The fact that he did have drugs in his system has been widely reported at least by who I watch.
I believe Chauvin being on top of Floyd on the ground, for almost 9 minutes, and not calling paramedics / not finding a way himself to get Floyd medical help - was definitely a problem. Floyd was begging to be allowed to be on the ground, but Chauvin didn't need to be on top of him. I don't think that Chauvin being on top of Floyd caused Floyd to stop breathing. If this were true, Floyd wouldn't have been able to talk, which he was able to do throughout the incident.
I think Chauvin acted wrongly, could have acted better, and the other cops should've done more to get Chauvin off of Floyd. Floyd handcuffed on the ground, without anyone on top of him, would've served as no threat. No need to sit on top of him.
But if Floyd didn't have a high, lethal dose of drugs in his system on that day, no way he dies on that day either. I believe the drugs ( 3 times a lethal dose of fentanyl) were a primary cause of death, and Chauvin on top of Floyd accelerated, contributed to the death.
This is a good summary. I think the truth of what happened is in your post.. meaning it could have been 90% Chauvin, 10% drugs or the other way around.
I'm not going to try to find the info from back when I first posted this many weeks ago, but you might try this thing they call Google. It's what I use and it can be very helpful...or not helpful at all in some cases, since the results depend on what people have chosen to open. Good luck. If I happen to run into this info I will try to provide it.
EDIT; here you go for starters...
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/8672...miner,restrained" by law enforcement officers.
"The Hennepin County Medical Examiner released a new autopsy report Monday, ruling George Floyd's death was a homicide. The office said Floyd's heart and lungs stopped functioning "while being restrained" by law enforcement officers.
Floyd died due to "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restrain, and neck compression," according to the report.
It also specified "other significant conditions," including fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use as well as existing heart disease.
In charging documents released last week, prosecutors said that preliminary results from an autopsy "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."
However the new report from the medical examiner did not include such language."
italics and underlining are mine.
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Did the county report actually change or was the prosecutor just referring to something unfinished and not finalized when they say "preliminary results" ?
New is a relative term. Perhaps the county report is just new relative to the privately done report.
LOL, maybe you're so full of shit your ears stink. That isn't relatively new news either.
The LOL is on you, cuz i'm right. Turns out "new" is a relative term.
There has only been one version of the county report, it was never changed.
"Nationwide, people expressed outrage when prosecutors released the preliminary findings of George Floyd’s autopsy, highlighting cardiovascular disease and “potential intoxicants” in his system, as if those factors might explain his death as police officers pinned him to the ground.
The findings contained just one mention of physical trauma, noting that Floyd’s body showed no signs of asphyxia or strangulation. The public and some medical professionals cried foul, putting Dr. Andrew Baker, Hennepin County’s medical examiner, squarely in the hot seat.
But neither Baker nor his office had released those findings. He was still performing Floyd’s autopsy at the time. The preliminary findings were summarized by prosecutors in the initial charging documents against former officer Derek Chauvin, the veteran Minneapolis police officer who had pinned his knee onto Floyd’s neck for nearly 8 minutes as Floyd begged for air and witnesses pleaded with officers to stop.
The preliminary findings hung over the case for five days before Baker released the full autopsy report. He ruled Floyd’s death a homicide, finding that the officers killed him by subduing him, restraining him and compressing his neck.
The way the preliminary results were first presented confused the public and prompted demands for Baker to resign or be fired."
Thanks for the attempt at teaching us all how to google though. Now gfy.
"https://www.startribune.com/floyd-s-autopsy-makes-medical-examiner-a-rare-target-of-anger/571343522/"
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Jesus Christ you incredible tard, no one disputes that 'new' is a relative term. But it doesn't mean new in the particular sense that you want us to believe. Since virtually everything in life is relative, it follows that most adjectives are as well. But thanks for your third grade English lesson, my dog found it fascinating.
The jokes on you dude, courtesy of NPR, the source for the article I posted...which clearly says a NEW report was issued, and it obviously doesn't mean new relative to a completely separate report by outside entities. You can quibble all day and you can't even begin to convince that what ended up as the final report wasn't changed from an initial reported finding by the official coroner. It just simply was, and you also will never be able to convince the reasonable and fair-minded among us that...as I have stated previously...media-derived public pressure did not unduly influence the process.
NPR trumps your star tribune, BTW. They consistently cast liberal shade on the news they present, which makes them even more credible here.
Furthermore, if you want to hang your hat on those independent so-called autopsies, take heed of a passage in the linked article you provided that says coroners can be influenced to shade their findings FOR the police. If that can happen, you know damn well that a paid-for independent report can be influenced by the entity paying for it. Add to that lots of verbiage by the well-known Baden, one of the independent coroners, who makes it fairly plain that he came to his conclusions circumstantially rather than by direct forensic evidence. What fvcking bullshit, just like you are.
First, the NPR article was 6/1, Tribune 6/19.
Second, "new report" was relative to the private report. New report doesn't mean "new from the county", just new to existence.
Third, the report WAS NOT changed. There was only ONE county report, and it has not changed. Preliminary info obviously conflicted with the finalized report. The only quibble is around reasons why you're such a wordy and obtuse SOB.
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head of homicide and most senior officer on the force testified they have been trained to never kneel on someone’s back when they’re handcuffed and prone due to suffocation concerns. Instead they are to get them out of prone position as soon as possible.
What makes you say that? I'm curious - I don't have a side in this.
The number of lawyers is pretty stacked: only one lawyer for the defense; dozens of Dream Team lawyers from Mpls and DC for the prosecution.
From the sources that I've seen locally, inside the courtroom and tracking the case closely each day....the drug evidence, the unwillingness of GF's drug dealer to testify, the new finding of drugs (fentanyl and meth) in GFs car and in cop car GF was in before the incident -
plus GF's heart disease and damaged lungs from years of unhealthy (drug addicted) life style -
aren't doing the prosecution any favors. Multiple medical experts have testified in the last couple days about the drug usage (OD) and GF poor health as being the primary cause of death.
No way Chauvin gets convicted on 2nd or 3rd degree murder. It is way beyond reasonable doubt of the kneeling causing GF death for a lot of the jurors, I suspect. I think many of the jurors had no idea about the drug usage and poor health of GF before the trial started. (Like the fact GF was in hospital due to near OD a couple months before day of his death occurred).
Maybe they get Chauvin on manslaughter because I'm not sure if there was any justified reason for him to be on top of GF. But the medical experts found zero evidence of any physical damage or breathing restriction in autopsy, from Chauvin being on GF.
What is leading you to feel its not going well for defense? I think Minneapolis will be Riotville - on fire, being destroyed - in a couple weeks regardless. BLM is already blocking traffic in downtown Minneapolis today. Great. No way my family or I will drive down there.
Medical testimony has said him knelling on his neck lead to him dying and cops have said what he did was not standard procedure and/or unnecessary. Drugs did not cause his death according to expert testimony. Obviously the defense hasn't presented their case yet, but if the trial ended today, then there would be no doubt on the third degree murder charge. Could probably convince a jury to go for murder two at this point. I think ultimately he ends up with either murder three or manslaughter.
Here we go again.
If someone tries to flee a routine traffic stop, should we shoot them, or follow them and arrest them for resisting-arrest? Should we even tazer them?
Cops should use lethal force only when someone or their own health is in danger of being harmed. Easier said than done, but this one is bad.
If someone tries to flee a routine traffic stop, should we shoot them, or follow them and arrest them for resisting-arrest? Should we even tazer them?
Cops should use lethal force only when someone or their own health is in danger of being harmed. Easier said than done, but this one is bad.
Burn that shithole city to the ground. Hopefully Seattle, LA, Portland, Chicago all burn to the ground. They get what they deserve...or allow.
Hasn't it only been witnesses from the prosecution that have testified thus far?
Why is anyone surprised they corroborate the prosecution's version of things?
Why is anyone surprised they corroborate the prosecution's version of things?
We shouldn't condone shooting anyone in that situation. I think tazing is fine, since willingly sending the cops on a wild goose chase is dangerous in itself, not to mention a waste of time.
The problem is there a ton of bozos out there with a badge. Many power hungry. Several others incompetent like this clown that drew a pistol thinking it was a tazer.
His supervisors, medical experts and use of force experts so far. Nothing from the defense yet. The issue for him though, is that the people who have testified are tearing up his defense. Everyone is saying the drugs didn't cause it and he shouldn't have restrained him the way he did. Even his boss is saying that. He doesn't have a credible defense at this point.
Ya, I'm not saying I expect him to come up with a credible defense - I think he's probably fvcked. Just that I'd be surprised if the prosecution put up experts/witnesses that said the drugs caused it or that the restraint was correct.
At least the other cop didn't try to tazer the tires as the car rolled away
I think closing arguments for the Chauvin trial occurred today (and maybe tomorrow?) Then who knows how long deliberations will be.
Public schools (in-person) have already been cancelled for Wed - Fri this week in anticipation for riots based on a verdict. The building I used to work in has been boarded up. I think almost every office building in Minneapolis and St. Paul has. Way to set expectations - it's like people are begging the rioters to riot. The rioters and looters don't want to let people down.
There has been plenty of factual evidence that drugs (meth and fentanyl) played a large part in GF's death- absent the drugs he wouldn't have died on that day. That is pretty clear. GF's drug dealer pleaded the fifth amendment, thinking testifying under oath would put him at risk of being charged with GF's death.
None of this is to say Chauvin will walk. Deck is stacked way too steeply against him for that. Literally about 100 super lawyers vs. 1 meh lawyer for his defense. And actions taken by city council, media, and the Daunte murder all contribute to - justice be damned - no way the city survives regarding race relations, if Chauvin walks totally free.
I heard the prosecution made solid closing arguments regarding "why did Chauvin have to be on top of Chauvin (back not neck BTW) for almost 9 minutes, without rolling him over, trying to help him breathe?" I think this is a fair question, and what will stick for convicting Chauvin.
My prediction is: not guilty on 2nd and 3rd degree murder. Guilty on (3rd degree) manslaughter. Not sure how many years that entails, but he's not getting death penalty or life in prison. And the riot mob (largely from out of town, now) will riot again - regardless of verdict.
I don't think the other three cops there on that day - which will be a separate case - will be convicted of anything substantial, if convicted at all. FWIW - that is a diverse racial group in those other 3 cops - Asian, Hispanic, white
Public schools (in-person) have already been cancelled for Wed - Fri this week in anticipation for riots based on a verdict. The building I used to work in has been boarded up. I think almost every office building in Minneapolis and St. Paul has. Way to set expectations - it's like people are begging the rioters to riot. The rioters and looters don't want to let people down.
There has been plenty of factual evidence that drugs (meth and fentanyl) played a large part in GF's death- absent the drugs he wouldn't have died on that day. That is pretty clear. GF's drug dealer pleaded the fifth amendment, thinking testifying under oath would put him at risk of being charged with GF's death.
None of this is to say Chauvin will walk. Deck is stacked way too steeply against him for that. Literally about 100 super lawyers vs. 1 meh lawyer for his defense. And actions taken by city council, media, and the Daunte murder all contribute to - justice be damned - no way the city survives regarding race relations, if Chauvin walks totally free.
I heard the prosecution made solid closing arguments regarding "why did Chauvin have to be on top of Chauvin (back not neck BTW) for almost 9 minutes, without rolling him over, trying to help him breathe?" I think this is a fair question, and what will stick for convicting Chauvin.
My prediction is: not guilty on 2nd and 3rd degree murder. Guilty on (3rd degree) manslaughter. Not sure how many years that entails, but he's not getting death penalty or life in prison. And the riot mob (largely from out of town, now) will riot again - regardless of verdict.
I don't think the other three cops there on that day - which will be a separate case - will be convicted of anything substantial, if convicted at all. FWIW - that is a diverse racial group in those other 3 cops - Asian, Hispanic, white
Yeah, I'm thinking the same verdict as you. Because why would Minneapolis be preparing for riots if they felt good about Chauvin getting 2nd degree or 3rd degree murder? NYPD says they've been preparing for this week for almost a year.
But on the flip side, I was thinking they'd throw the book at him simply to avoid more riots. Lol. That's how we hand out justice these days - will a riot occur or not.
Stay safe up there @Heelicious
I dont think there is a verdict that would prevent riots. It's what many just want to do. 99% of those rioting don't give a flip about George Floyd.
Why do you keep saying this? It's been proven false by multiple experts. Drugs were not the cause of death. The medical testimony isn't going to be what convicts him though. It's going to be the cops in his own department saying what he did wasn't standard. When you have people working with you that say you ****ed up, then you don't have a chance.
My younger brother and his kids live in a northwest suburb, near Rogers. It's not looking good. It never looks good there... it's always 3 degrees below zero!
i can’t get over the paramedic’s testimony...i think that was compelling enough for any jury to hear.
eta: i think 3rd degree murder is out
eta: lol, actually i don’t know now re: 3rd degree murder after reading why this was even established...very complex
eta: i think 3rd degree murder is out
eta: lol, actually i don’t know now re: 3rd degree murder after reading why this was even established...very complex
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Rogers is an exurb of Minneapolis as you know - about 20 miles out from me, and I'm 20 more miles from downtown Minneapolis. 40 miles out, he and his family should be safe - I hope.
Multiple experts and the coroner's report listed 3X a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system. If he were found dead in a hotel room on that date, basically every medical expert would have ruled it a textbook fentanyl OD.
But again - was it the primary cause of death? I don't know what the jury will find. Surely there is a case to be made that he doesn't die if Chauvin isn't on top of him for 9 minutes. Both the drugs and the cop on top for a long time are contributing causes. Which cause the jury finds is all that remains to be seen. I'm guessing it is Chauvin's actions as primary, hence 3rd degree manslaughter.
Nooooo... I'm saying that I wouldn't live there if the house was free and meals were delivered daily. It's cray-cold.
