OOTB Carolina Basketball Discussion Thread
- Thread starter carolinablue34
- Start date
Yeah, that was odd. I thought you only rushed the court when you beat good teams.
Hey we are nothing if not consistent: 15-30 on 3’s for Clemson.
Very disappointing the way we played in the first half, our defense overall, and how poorly we played once we actually tied it up. Good fight in the second half from some of the guys though. They are a very troubled team right now though. Biggest concern is Theo right now.
Just baffling that we keep doing the same thing. At some point it isn't just unlucky. Help is just a disaster right now. Even on that last layup, we had three different guys collapse when Kenny got beat. What the hell do three dudes need to converge on one for? HS teams don't do that crap.
We’ll beat Pitt Saturday. But I don’t care if we win by 40 we better drop out of the top 25. I’m tired of seeing a number beside a team that doesn’t deserve it.
Left shoulder. Wasn't moving it at all.
I cannot believe how good teams shoot the three against us.
Our post-NCAA champ seasons suck! But, I'll take as many as we can get.
amazing how they can be so energized in different parts of games.
roy playing the bigs more will help.
something has to get into kwilliams at some point on the offensive end.
carolina needs to win three straight, and they can if theo is good...which btw, it looks like a stinger to me in his shoulder and i get the wind gone and his tailbone...but seriously, if his shoulder blade is shot, he would’ve showered...he was dressed in uniform.
roy playing the bigs more will help.
something has to get into kwilliams at some point on the offensive end.
carolina needs to win three straight, and they can if theo is good...which btw, it looks like a stinger to me in his shoulder and i get the wind gone and his tailbone...but seriously, if his shoulder blade is shot, he would’ve showered...he was dressed in uniform.
Well, we did play better in the second half without him. Not saying he doesn't make a difference, but I think his importance to the team is somewhat overrated this year. Outside of a couple of games, he's been average at best.
Well, he went out of the game in the first few minutes. In a game where we were already short-handed, I think a senior like Theo would have been a huge help. He will also be a huge help, or missing piece, going forward.
It's hard to really understand how good these kids are at shooting. It's the game our generation grew up playing. These guys have taken well over a millions jump shots by the time they get to college. And when you leave them wide fukkin open it's just muscle memory.
Some of the players said UNC played better 3 point defense this game. So that may be part of the problem.
This team is interesting in that we play bad perimeter defense and have a strategy that encourages teams to take the very shots we suck at defending.
This team is interesting in that we play bad perimeter defense and have a strategy that encourages teams to take the very shots we suck at defending.
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Can you play defense?
Man... that was a winnable game. If we miss fewer bunnies, they don't go 50% from three (that truly is partly bad luck, no team can sustain that high of a percentage), 1 or 2 less boneheaded, plays.... But we didn't.
Maybe something clicked in the second half for them. Maybe.
Maybe something clicked in the second half for them. Maybe.
I don't know. Teams consistently shooting around 50% from out there becomes more of an us thing. We are ranking three hundred and something in terms of opponent 3% and number of them that they take. That is indicative of just a terribly poor defensive team. I thought at the beginning of the year it would perhaps be our biggest strength.
I get that the 3-pt defense is pretty bad but honestly 50% is just impossible to sustain.
You might have already seen this but there is a Kenpom article on 3-point defense: https://kenpom.com/blog/3point-defense-should-not-be-defined-by-opponents-3p/
Basically he looked at the best and worst team defenses in terms of 3-point percentage allowed over four seasons and divided the seasons into halves. He showed that the 20 worst first half of the season defenses had allowed 44.9% shooting from 3, but only allowed 34.8% from 3 in the second half of the season. Meanwhile the 20 best first half of the season defenses allowed 24.3% from 3, but in the second half of the season allowed 33.6% from three. There was a miniscule difference between the two in the second half of the season, showing 3 point-percentage is mostly out of the defense's control.
I can't find the source but I remember an NBA stat that teams shoot about 40% on uncontested 3's, and 15% on contested 3's. And a cursory look at the 2016 numbers: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...w-each-nba-team-fared-at-making-defenses-pay/
The Warriors led the league with 43.7% shooting on uncontested three's. That's with three shooters that are far, far better than anyone in the ACC.
Conclusion: Even if every single 3 against our defense is uncontested there's no way teams can keep shooting them at a 50% clip. If State and Clemson each make two less 3's (they'd still be shooting >40%, so still unsustainably high) we probably win both games and nobody is freaking out.
I think we can all agree Felton is better than what we ever seen on the court?
But what if he knew something like this was coming down the pipe and thats why he had the IDC attitude?
I think his play the amounts of minutes and everything else are tied together.
JMO
But what if he knew something like this was coming down the pipe and thats why he had the IDC attitude?
I think his play the amounts of minutes and everything else are tied together.
JMO
With Theo available w/o injury, then I believe we win this game . . his absence really hurt last night.
That's cool, but I didn't see blown assist or poor officiating listed anywhere.
gaucho, put the numbers away for a second and just use your eyes. We both know it's simply down to our bad defense. Sure, going 50% from behind the arc has some luck to it, but overall, if you put the numbers away and just watch our defense, you know as well as I know that it's down to our BAD defense.
What happens on a typical opponent's made 3? Their ball handler drives in the lane, 2-3 of our guys collapse to "help," the ball handler kicks it to a wide-open shooter who is already set. Shooter catches the ball, already squared up to the basket, no dribble required, pauses a half second to gather himself since he's wide the F open, and then pulls the trigger. Or... and this is another favorite of mine... our defender will run way, way under a screen, leaving the shooter wide the F open from behind the arc.
Yes, there's some luck associated, but our awful 3-point % allowed isn't down to bad luck, man. It's down to bad defense. It's not like teams are having to attempt NBA style 3s of dribble, dribble, crossover, step back, contested 3. Nope. If teams were doing that against us and shooting 50%, I'd call it bad luck. Nah, this is just bad defense. Near every 3-point shot opportunity we allow is a wide-open look. Yes, sometimes the opponent makes a prayer from way back as the shot clock expires, or makes a contested 3, but dang... if you let a team get hot by nailing wide-open looks, then they're gonna start making some of the tougher shots with that built-up confidence.
Also, let's not act like us being lousy guarding the 3 is a new phenomena under Roy. We've always been bad at it. That's why Duke beats us 5 out of every 6 times we face them. Typically, a Duke team's game is all about the 3 ball, so we lose against them.
We've gotten away with it most years, though, because we've had dominant inside guys and we have a fast-paced transition game, so we force teams to play our style, and we just out-score them and bury them to an extent that no amount of 3s is going to help.
The problem now is basketball (NBA and college) has morphed into a brand new style of play. The days of the hulking, dominating center are over. It's all guards and wings and wings and guards, and it's all about the 3 ball. Now it's not just Duke who focuses on the 3. Lots of teams do it. And that is why we're losing a lot now.
Roy needs to either change his defensive philosophy or needs to lobby college basketball to move the 3-point line to NBA depth. Or else, we're in trouble.
We've gotten away with it most years, though, because we've had dominant inside guys and we have a fast-paced transition game, so we force teams to play our style, and we just out-score them and bury them to an extent that no amount of 3s is going to help.
The problem now is basketball (NBA and college) has morphed into a brand new style of play. The days of the hulking, dominating center are over. It's all guards and wings and wings and guards, and it's all about the 3 ball. Now it's not just Duke who focuses on the 3. Lots of teams do it. And that is why we're losing a lot now.
Roy needs to either change his defensive philosophy or needs to lobby college basketball to move the 3-point line to NBA depth. Or else, we're in trouble.
I wonder when the last time was that a UNC team had 3 games in a row that saw 2 of our guys get 20+ and yet we lost all 3.
The thing is, we have a lot of guys capable of having really good games as evidenced by 4 different players having 20+ games in the past 3, but right now we don't seem capable of putting it together on the same night.
Last night: Berry/Johnson combine for 59 out of 78. Other starters combine for 10. Saturday: Maye/Pinson combine for 53 out of 91. Other starters combine for 22. @ VT: Maye/Berry combine for 46 out of 69. Other starters combine for 11.
The thing is, we have a lot of guys capable of having really good games as evidenced by 4 different players having 20+ games in the past 3, but right now we don't seem capable of putting it together on the same night.
Last night: Berry/Johnson combine for 59 out of 78. Other starters combine for 10. Saturday: Maye/Pinson combine for 53 out of 91. Other starters combine for 22. @ VT: Maye/Berry combine for 46 out of 69. Other starters combine for 11.
It's because we don't have a point guard who facilitates (and because we don't have many folks who are great options to whom Berry can facilitate).
There's no Brice Johnson or Kennedy Meeks for Berry to feed on this team. And, like I said, Berry isn't the facilitating type of PG anyway. It's a circle. When he actually does try to feed the post, Manley or Brooks drop the damn ball.
I agree with this 100%. It's making games, and "The Game", less-interesting to me. Guys chucking long balls all night... not much fun.
I don't like it either and I say that as someone who's only been alive during the 3-point shot era (was born in '89).
It ain't going away though, unfortunately. Like @uncboy10 said last night, it's the game young kids grow up playing now. It's all jump shots.
It's not just the other starters either, it's the bench as well. That's probably the biggest issue on this team. If any of the starters screw up, you can't really do anything about it because there is no one else worth a crap behind them. This team has become a poor man's duke team. Three point dependent with no bench play. The only difference is duke's shooters are more consistent.
Yeah, I would agree, was pointing out the starters more since that’s the strength/experience of the roster but I’m with you
Roy is who he is, and he is stubborn as hell in his philosophy. In Dean’s day; hell, even 15 years ago, it made sense to more heavily contest the 2 pointers than the 3’s. But today... not so much. There are too many good shooters in the college game.
I just wish Roy would throw a few wrinkles in his defensive schemes. Dean had the same basic philosophy Roy has, but Dean would throw some wrinkles in there and adjust during the game.
