Tuesday (2nd) Camp game...

[gary-7]

Since I don't see a thread yet, current team came from behind for a win over the alums.
From a text:
Currents were down 7 at the half, won by 5
Pretty strong alum team, incl Cole, KW, Brady, DG, JJ, Luke and more
Frosh again showed they belong
Current Guards more than held their own this year
And, oh yeah --- JWash played and played well, including the game-winner
Time to find a youtube vid...

 

[Kool1234567]

This is the 1st half…2nd 1 hasn’t been posted yet…

The 2 5 star freshman are going to push for big minutes I do believe…

 

[gary-7]

View embedded media

This is the 1st half…2nd 1 hasn’t been posted yet…

The 2 5 star freshman are going to push for big minutes I do believe…

Second half

 

[gary-7]

View embedded media

This is the 1st half…2nd 1 hasn’t been posted yet…

The 2 5 star freshman are going to push for big minutes I do believe…

Geez, "Birdie" Manek lit it up. Hard to imagine he won't get another NBA look.

 

[dtodd4475]

Geez, "Birdie" Manek lit it up. Hard to imagine he won't get another NBA look.

He's getting plenty of looks, has been since his Oklahoma days. He is ideal with his size and shooting ability. He has to commit to the other parts. With his size and quick shooting, he should be there as a role guy at the least, but he is stubborn with other aspects if not a feature guy, and he ain't going to be a feature. Would love to see him in the Association, but maybe for his personal comfort overseas is his preference?

 

[gary-7]

He's getting plenty of looks, has been since his Oklahoma days. He is ideal with his size and shooting ability. He has to commit to the other parts. With his size and quick shooting, he should be there as a role guy at the least, but he is stubborn with other aspects if not a feature guy, and he ain't going to be a feature. Would love to see him in the Association, but maybe for his personal comfort overseas is his preference?

He was quite the hero in Australia

 

[dtodd4475]

He was quite the hero in Australia

He was in Euro league this year, and role played. 7 points 3 boards per. Still shot it well from 3 though. Was better in the land down under though for sure, 13 and 5 per. Not quite hero status , but very solid there.

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

I’m very excited to read that Ian and Drake are playing well. This team has lots and lots of potential. GDTBATH ⛹🏾‍♂️ 👍🏾

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Cap and Drake also seem locked in on D! With the improvement I already see and my expectation for further development, I expect this team to be very good by ACC time! I would love to repeat at the top of the ACC!

GDTBATH!

 

[DSouthr]

OK, so right off the top, when I saw Manek, I kept asking myself, who the heck is that tall blonde white guy playing with the alums? I mean it was a bit fuzzy, hard to get a good look at the faces closer up but I saw him take a couple jumpers and there was no mistaking who that was, it was Brady without the beard and long locks. LOL

Seth on Cole, man that was fun to watch, big Luke out there just having fun was nice, how about that Ian/Drake back court we got to see some of, not to shabby with Drake as the lead guard? Those 2 frosh look really good, my concern is that Hubert is going to have to reel Ian in at times (has some Caleb Love in him) but that kid will go find buckets. Drake, don't sleep on that kid, amazing how far he has come skill wise in the last couple years, he will play more than I expected next season. Tyson looks opt me like a great complimentary shooter, don't know how much he will create on his own but as a spot up shooter when the drive breaks down to kick out to, it is a bucket. JWith defended well, did tone it down a notch this game from the prior one, offensively I think he needs to tone it down another notch, rebounds the ball and brings it up himself and results in a TO, anyone seen that play before... High solid, really active, looks physically stronger, looks a bit above expectations to me at this point but who knows how he plays when the lights come on. Lubin was relatively quiet, looks like he is trying to figure out how he fits this group, at this point you have to expect that, not even a single real practice in yet. Cadeau looks stronger and really this was just a pick up game, thou against major talents in the alums but felt his drives in both sessions were a bit more forced, decisions not great but don't read a lot in to that because this again was just a pick up game but our current team played well against major talent.

Really good to see Jalen play in this one, really looked like he was moving a lot crisper than he was last season defensively, see a lot of progress from him on that defensive end. But really want him looking for his jumper more aggressively, not sure that I can recall him taking a jumper so that was disappointing.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I had trouble figuring out it was Manek too, lol!

It looks like we can put a seriously good defensive team on the floor if we need to. Cap will have to learn to take better shots and figure out that just because you can make it, doesn't mean you should take it! Boy do I love his aggressive nature and his ability to get the shot off against anyone! Cap just might force his way into the starting lineup!

 

[khalidha]

And, oh yeah --- JWash played and played well, including the game-winner

Did JWash seem quicker and more active to anyone else? It looked like his athleticism is returning. I'll keep watching but looking for continuous improvement from all of our guys.

 

[gary-7]

Did JWash seem quicker and more active to anyone else? It looked like his athleticism is returning. I'll keep watching but looking for continuous improvement from all of our guys.

He looked good, and High continues to impress as well.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Last game both Ian and Drake looked good but Ian stood out. This time they both looked good again, but Drake stood out.

While I'm not saying they are similar players, they make me think of Carter and Jamison. Serious potential.

 

[gary-7]

Last game both Ian and Drake looked good but Ian stood out. This time they both looked good again, but Drake stood out.

While I'm not saying they are similar players, they make me think of Carter and Jamison. Serious potential.

Very different players, but yes, another potential dynamic duo who could complement each other nicely.

 

[gary-7]

Seth on Cole, man that was fun to watch, big Luke out there just having fun was nice, how about that Ian/Drake back court we got to see some of, not to shabby with Drake as the lead guard? Those 2 frosh look really good, my concern is that Hubert is going to have to reel Ian in at times (has some Caleb Love in him) but that kid will go find buckets. Drako that because this again was just a pick up game but our current team played well against major talent.

With the full caveat that we haven't had an actual practice yet, there are a couple of things that we can use as at least jumping-off points:

- In case some didn't notice, there was a reason we started (and finished) with that particular lineup --- EC/RJ/Seth/Withers/JWash --- it's what we would put on the floor if we had to play a game right now, i.e., the returning guys who know the system and have played together.

- In other words, that's the "default" we go into summer with. So, one of the qustions over the coming months is how that might change:

- Barring injury, EC and RJ are locked in, as is I suspect, JWash. So, the question marks will be at the 3 and 4. Honestly, I like our options from what little we've seen. My initial guess for most likely to crack it going in is Tyson, due to experience, size and shooting ability, but there are no bad options. We have 10 guys who can flat-out play, and I hope we take advantage of that and really get aggressive and multiple on defense.

 

[Kool1234567]

I know many are worried about the 4 and 5 position and it’s true we will not be as strong as we have been in the past…I think we are seeing what Coach Davis is doing…We will be elite 1-3 though with a rotation of different types of 4 and 5…

And you can win titles like that…I watched Jay Wright do it twice….

 

[gary-7]

Cap and Drake also seem locked in on D! With the improvement I already see and my expectation for further development, I expect this team to be very good by ACC time! I would love to repeat at the top of the ACC!

GDTBATH!

Yep. It's no accident they were on the floor down the stretch of the McDAA game to lock down.

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

So, so much potential throughout the line-up. The coaching staff needs to synthesize the abilities of
these uber talented players in order to play all of them every night! Wear down opponents defensively late into
the shot clock and run, run, run, creating matchup opportunities.

 

[gary-7]

So, so much potential throughout the line-up. The coaching staff needs to synthesize the abilities of
these uber talented players in order to play all of them every night! Wear down opponents defensively late into
the shot clock and run, run, run, creating matchup opportunities.

Could not agree more. Coaching is so much about using personnel you have in an optimum manner, and this crew is built for runnung the floor, pressure defense and aggressive use of depth.

 

[Bubspub88]

Coaching is so much about using personnel you have in an optimum manner, and this crew is built for runnung the floor, pressure defense and aggressive use of depth.

Unfortunately Hubert has not shown a tendency to really prefer any of those. Hopefully this is the year he shows he can adapt his coaching to the personnel.

 

[gary-7]

Unfortunately Hubert has not shown a tendency to really prefer any of those. Hopefully this is the year he shows he can adapt his coaching to the personnel.

I get your pessimism in that regard, so I'll just say I hope Hubert's next step is learning to play for the season as opposed to an individual game. In other words, let these guys feel the coach's confidence --- especially before the holidays --- to get after it and learn to play together in different configurations without the HC trying to over-control the flow.

 

[al would]

I know many are worried about the 4 and 5 position

I would respectfully disagree with that. I think we have a (potentially) underrated front line. Lubin, Wash, Withers and potentially Tyson are obviously very good and experienced players .. and there are obviously some very capable and talented options available depending on if hubs want to play a smaller line up. This is a very versatile and talented group.

 

[dtodd4475]

Personally, I think there were a clear 4 separated from backups last yearvfrom day 1. Mando, RJ, Harrison, and Cormac were clearly separated from their backups from day 1. With Cadeau a clear 2nd tier, but young, who shared more with Seth. This year only Cadeau and RJ are clear next level going in. The playing time is up for grabs due to the lack of clear #1 options in my opinion. "If you have 2 quarterbacks, you really don't have one". It will be interesting who steps up.

 

[gary-7]

Personally, I think there were a clear 4 separated from backups last yearvfrom day 1. Mando, RJ, Harrison, and Cormac were clearly separated from their backups from day 1. With Cadeau a clear 2nd tier, but young, who shared more with Seth. This year only Cadeau and RJ are clear next level going in. The playing time is up for grabs due to the lack of clear #1 options in my opinion. "If you have 2 quarterbacks, you really don't have one". It will be interesting who steps up.

Well, first, I don't think depth should be seen as a problem viv-a-vis clear #1s. In fact, I think the staff can be better served by widening their "trust" and giving guys run early and often. A rotation will emerge, but it is nonetheless vital to instill confidence in everyone who takes the floor.

Second, barring physical setbacks, in addition to EC and RJ at the 1 and 2, I'll be surprised if there will be much doubt as to the 5 position.

 

[Bubspub88]

I get your pessimism in that regard, so I'll just say I hope Hubert's next step is learning to play for the season as opposed to an individual game. In other words, let these guys feel the coach's confidence --- especially before the holidays --- to get after it and learn to play together in different configurations without the HC trying to over-control the flow.

I really do not want to see December games with the bench players getting 15 to 20 minutes, I do not care who the opponent is. UNC had depth a couple years ago but it was never developed. These are all Hubert's kids - if he has the confidence to recruit them then give them some court time early in the season.

 

[DSouthr]

I really do not want to see December games with the bench players getting 15 to 20 minutes, I do not care who the opponent is. UNC had depth a couple years ago but it was never developed. These are all Hubert's kids - if he has the confidence to recruit them then give them some court time early in the season.

Not sure I understand, if you are saying that you do not want to see the bench used heavy in JUST December or is it that you do not want to see some bench players getting 15-20mins all season? I don't want to see the bench used deep and solid minutes in JUST December, I want to see it from game 1 to the last game we play next season. Truth is, you would have a hard sell on your hands to convince me right now that any player on our roster should be playing more than 30mins a game on average, even RJ. Kid gets hot and is having a big time game stay with him for over 30mins is fine but on average for the season I feel we have the depth to keep those averages below 30mins a game.

The one spot where I am concerned is the 5, love Jalen, not totally sure he is ready for 30mins a game or more but when he sits our size sits. Can High give us some solid minutes, he does look a bit stronger than last season and he isn't afraid to wade in the middle of a fight. I do think we can steal some time at the 5 with JWit and Lubin if High is not up to it but that does challenge my confidence a bit.

 

[NathanFielder]

I really do not want to see December games with the bench players getting 15 to 20 minutes, I do not care who the opponent is. UNC had depth a couple years ago but it was never developed. These are all Hubert's kids - if he has the confidence to recruit them then give them some court time early in the season.

They had depth 2 years ago?

Puff Johnson was one of the worst players in the country last year. Dmarco Dunn shot under 40% while starting 12 games last year so he got minutes. Dontrez Styles put up solid numbers for one of the worst teams in the country. Does he contribute to winning? Tyler Nickel might play for 4 teams in 4 seasons.

What depth 2 years ago? None of those players played in the NCAA Tournament last year.

 

[DSouthr]

They had depth 2 years ago?

Puff Johnson was one of the worst players in the country last year. Dmarco Dunn shot under 40% while starting 12 games last year so he got minutes. Dontrez Styles put up solid numbers for one of the worst teams in the country. Does he contribute to winning? Tyler Nickel might play for 4 teams in 4 seasons.

What depth 2 years ago? None of those players played in the NCAA Tournament last year.

Kind of odd, you suggest Dunn maybe fit your definition of depth but call Puff one of the worst players in the country yet their year end stat lines read nearly identical?

Depth, you know what that is right, they are not starters for your team but they come in and give you minutes. Telling me that you would not like to have had another 6'8" strong 3pt jump shooter to add to last season's team? Funny how Hubert made it his top priority in this last portal to add a 6'8" solid jump shooter? Styles, so we ran with a 6'6" power forward while Styles a 6'6" power forward transferred out. Ingram played great but Styles played great for the team he went to, Styles showed us flashes of potential, we just didn't use him enough for him to develop for us. I submit he could have been solid depth had we used him. Did you NOT like Dunn's jump shooting as a soph for us, I think he was clearly solid depth but would have been even more so last season.

No, I do not agree we did not have depth 2yrs ago, we had depth, we did not develop that depth by giving them minutes they needed to develop. You point to even anything close to negatives for those guys that left just to justify using the line we had no depth. But we used the portal to bring in similar type players to Styles and Nickel and those guys played well for us, nothing says the guys that left would not have. Caleb was the guy that had to go because his game and RJ's just clashed on the court and I have that same concern today concerning RJ and Ian.

 

[NathanFielder]

Kind of odd, you suggest Dunn maybe fit your definition of depth but call Puff one of the worst players in the country yet their year end stat lines read nearly identical?

Depth, you know what that is right, they are not starters for your team but they come in and give you minutes. Telling me that you would not like to have had another 6'8" strong 3pt jump shooter to add to last season's team? Funny how Hubert made it his top priority in this last portal to add a 6'8" solid jump shooter? Styles, so we ran with a 6'6" power forward while Styles a 6'6" power forward transferred out. Ingram played great but Styles played great for the team he went to, Styles showed us flashes of potential, we just didn't use him enough for him to develop for us. I submit he could have been solid depth had we used him. Did you NOT like Dunn's jump shooting as a soph for us, I think he was clearly solid depth but would have been even more so last season.

No, I do not agree we did not have depth 2yrs ago, we had depth, we did not develop that depth by giving them minutes they needed to develop. You point to even anything close to negatives for those guys that left just to justify using the line we had no depth. But we used the portal to bring in similar type players to Styles and Nickel and those guys played well for us, nothing says the guys that left would not have. Caleb was the guy that had to go because his game and RJ's just clashed on the court and I have that same concern today concerning RJ and Ian.

I've expressed my opinion about the minutes debate and limit. I think it's convenient to blame the coaching staff if a player has a bad shooting game late in the season and blame it on minutes load. Kemba Walker averaged 37.6 minutes/game when he led UConn to a title. UConn had 3 players averaging more than 30 MPG last year and they were a dominant champion. Kansas had two players who averaged more than 35 MPG and won it all in 22. Baylor had 3 over 30. Virginia had 3 over 32.0. Big minutes haven't affected champions in recent history. Should I credit those coaches for playing their guys more minutes because it led to a banner? I don't get where the line of demarcation is.

Puff Johnson had 5 assists in 571 minutes last season. Now I know we're not talking about Elliot Cadeau here, but 5 assists in 571 minutes with a significantly higher usage rate than his UNC days. Again, one of the worst players in the country last year. It took him going on a 4 game heater at the end of the season to salvage his numbers to where they ended up. During the first 90% of the season, he was an absolute disaster despite starting 12 games.

I thought Dunn and Styles were very replaceable players. If you consider that depth, that's fine. I think they're like barely replacement level players. The Dmarco Dunn love on this board was very strange to me. Like most role players... He's ok. But his loss wasn't a big deal, nor is it a sign of anything Hubert will do in the future. But the talent level disparity between Ian Jackson and Dmarco Dunn is significant. So if Hubert hides Jackson on the bench this year, then I'll have worry for his bench usage. I'm not going to get worried over Puff Johnson, Dmarco Dunn, etc not getting minutes. If Puff and Dmarco were any good, wouldn't Penn State have finished better than 16-17 last year?

I can't speak entirely for Styles. It's hard to say a guy who's really productive for one of the worst teams in the country would impact winning in a much more limited role at UNC. But in fairness to him, at least he was productive.... Can't say the same for Puff or Dunn.

I think it's a really convenient excuse. And if RJ got gassed last year, then improve your conditioning. Maybe it's an old-school opinion, but if you want to be a champion, you need to do extraordinary things. LeBron in game 7 of the NBA Finals in 2016 sat for a total of 1:11 and that's a 7-game NBA series after like 40 playoff games and cross-country travel. But, if you want to be a champion, that's what it often takes.

 

[Bubspub88]

Not sure I understand, if you are saying that you do not want to see the bench used heavy in JUST December or is it that you do not want to see some bench players getting 15-20mins all season? I don't want to see the bench used deep and solid minutes in JUST December, I want to see it from game 1 to the last game we play next season. Truth is, you would have a hard sell on your hands to convince me right now that any player on our roster should be playing more than 30mins a game on average, even RJ. Kid gets hot and is having a big time game stay with him for over 30mins is fine but on average for the season I feel we have the depth to keep those averages below 30mins a game.

The one spot where I am concerned is the 5, love Jalen, not totally sure he is ready for 30mins a game or more but when he sits our size sits. Can High give us some solid minutes, he does look a bit stronger than last season and he isn't afraid to wade in the middle of a fight. I do think we can steal some time at the 5 with JWit and Lubin if High is not up to it but that does challenge my confidence a bit.

I wasn't clear. I do not want to see the bench players getting seeing an aggregate total of 15-20 minutes in December games. I want to see all the scholarship guys see some meaningful floor time before the conference begins. I don't think you can honestly expect players to be ready to contribute unless they have some actual game time under their belts. Play some weird line-ups, give the guys further down the bench some key time, do whatever you can in November and December to establish depth for March.

Hubert knows what RJ can do in extended minutes and also Cadeau and Seth to an extent. UNC does not have a traditional post game this season, Hubert can either slow it down and try to make them play that way or stomp on the gas and play fast. His default when things are not going well so far has been to force the half court game. Doing that this season could be a disaster - he needs to develop depth.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I want to see all the scholarship guys see some meaningful floor time before the conference begins.

I always and completely agree with this point of view. It's one of the things I particularly liked about Roy's way of doing things. It also justifies scheduling some creampuffs early on.

But . . . our schedule this year could make that a bit harder than usual with killer games early on. Here's the non-conference schedule per SI. Depending on the Maui matchups, we're playing 6-7 seriously tough teams in this stretch. That's compared to 5 tough teams in '24 and '23, and only 4 in '22.

• Nov. 4 vs. Elon, Dean E. Smith Center, Chapel Hill, N.C.
• Nov. 8 at Kansas, Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, Kan.
• Nov. 15 vs. American, Smith Center
• Nov. 22 at Hawaii, SimpliFi Arena at Stan Sheriff Center, Honolulu
• Nov. 25-27, Maui Invitational, Lahaina Civic Center, Lahaina, Hawaii (field includes UNC, Auburn, Colorado, Dayton, Iowa State, Memphis, Michigan State, and back-to-back national champ UConn; first round matchups not yet set)
• Dec. 4 vs. Alabama, ACC/SEC Challenge, Smith Center
• Dec. 14 vs. La Salle, Smith Center
• Dec. 29 vs. Campbell, Smith Center
• Dec. 17 vs. Florida, Jumpman Invitational, Spectrum Center, Charlotte [and Oklahoma?]
• Dec. 21 vs. UCLA, CBS Sports Classic, Madison Square Garden, New York City

 

[NathanFielder]

I wasn't clear. I do not want to see the bench players getting seeing an aggregate total of 15-20 minutes in December games. I want to see all the scholarship guys see some meaningful floor time before the conference begins. I don't think you can honestly expect players to be ready to contribute unless they have some actual game time under their belts. Play some weird line-ups, give the guys further down the bench some key time, do whatever you can in November and December to establish depth for March.

Hubert knows what RJ can do in extended minutes and also Cadeau and Seth to an extent. UNC does not have a traditional post game this season, Hubert can either slow it down and try to make them play that way or stomp on the gas and play fast. His default when things are not going well so far has been to force the half court game. Doing that this season could be a disaster - he needs to develop depth.

Hubert literally started Paxson Wojcik at the beginning of last year. I don't think he's afraid to play weird lineups. And it was pretty clear early on last year that Wojcik and High were not going to consistently contribute in meaningful games. So do you want to try to develop them in December?

All of this bench stuff is contingent on the bench being good enough to play and help you win. I don't completely understand the argument from the previous 3 years. The bench the last 3 years consisted of Puff Johnson, Dmarco Dunn, Dontrez Styles, Tyler Nickel, Justin McKoy, Paxson Wojcik, and the player on this year's team. Of those players, none of them played for an NCAA Tournament team last year other than Paxson Wojcik.

This team looks more talented off the bench on paper. But it's ultimately up to the players to show progression to play in those meaningful games. If Jackson and Powell are studs but Hubert plays them 5 MPG, then yes I'll be concerned. But Hubert's never had a good bench here. And the evidence of that is look where those bench players transferred to. We know Puff and Dmarco are not rotational players on a serious team. We don't know what Styles and Nickel would do with lesser roles on a serious team but they both at least showed they can be productive (in Styles' case on a terrible team and Nickel's case an average team). And sorry, I'm not blaming Hubert that Puff and Dmarco aren't good players for good teams today.

Ultimately we'll see what Hubert does with what looks to be a more talented bench. But to compare the last 3 years is a tad unfair IMO. He had some zeroes coming off the bench. The solution with zeroes is generally not to play them more.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I love deep teams that run at warp speed. It is fun to watch, and it is effective in wearing down opponents. I loved watching teams try to run with us and then look gassed at the end of games when Roy used the tactic!

I disagree that Hubs had the horses to replicate this at any point though! Injuries, substandard play, no commitment to D, and a lack of hard work in practice left us with few options!

1st off, Hubs is not Roy! You guys know good and well that Hubs could not afford to allow too many losses in his first few seasons or the clamor for his job would have been deafening! He also is of a pro bent and has no intention of playing peeps who aren't ready to contribute to winning!

I think we now have the bodies on paper, and I also believe they have the combination of skills, work ethic, defensive pride, and coachability to show it on the court!

 

[gary-7]

I love deep teams that run at warp speed. It is fun to watch, and it is effective in wearing down opponents. I loved watching teams try to run with us and then look gassed at the end of games when Roy used the tactic!

I disagree that Hubs had the horses to replicate this at any point though! Injuries, substandard play, no commitment to D, and a lack of hard work in practice left us with few options!

1st off, Hubs is not Roy! You guys know good and well that Hubs could not afford to allow too many losses in his first few seasons or the clamor for his job would have been deafening! He also is of a pro bent and has no intention of playing peeps who aren't ready to contribute to winning!

I think we now have the bodies on paper, and I also believe they have the combination of skills, work ethic, defensive pride, and coachability to show it on the court!

Hubert certainly felt pressure to win immediately. but honestly, it's now time to get past that default of playing not to lose. Even at ths point in the summer, we are now at a place in which there is little reasonable doubt that we have guys who --- with adequate time to mesh --- can contribute to a very deep team.

In other words, at some point, a lazy narrative (like saying we have "zeroes" on the bench) becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As some here have correctly used the term, you aren't just handed depth, you must also develop it...

 

[NathanFielder]

Hubert certainly felt pressure to win immediately. but honestly, it's now time to get past that default of playing not to lose. Even at ths point in the summer, we are now at a place in which there is little reasonable doubt that we have guys who --- with adequate time to mesh --- can contribute to a very deep team.

In other words, at some point, a lazy narrative (like saying we have "zeroes" on the bench) becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As some here have correctly used the term, you aren't just handed depth, you must also develop it...

I agree that benches need to be developed, but you need to have a certain level of talent and skill to be developed into a useful player.

I'll disagree with last year too. Paxson Wojcik isn't developing more, he was what he was as a basketball player. He also got a good amount of minutes in the beginning of the season and his lineup data was absolutely horrendous. It isn't fair to him specifically, but on a per 40-minute basis, any lineup with him on the floor that exceeded a minimum threshold performed as literally one of the worst lineups in the country.

I don't think Jalen could physically consistently play enough to get to the minutes that you might be asking for. I thought he should've played more, but he wasn't giving 17 MPG consistently. At least to me he didn't look like he can physically do that all the time. I thought Seth and Withers played an appropriate number of minutes. I thought Withers' minutes were actually generous to how inconsistent he was and to his credit, he became a useful role player later on in the season.

So who's that missing? More minutes for High? I don't know about that.

But this year's bench looks more talented so we'll see what Hubert does. But I think to compare the last 3 seasons is a bit unfair. Seth Trimble is arguably the best bench player UNC has had under Hubert? And no offense to Seth, but he ain't Marvin Williams, Ed Davis, or the other pros Roy had come off the bench. And pros that would've been pros whether they came to UNC or not.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Hubert literally started Paxson Wojcik at the beginning of last year.

True, but that was the safe play - starting a highly experienced guy early on.

Correctly or not, many of us have felt that Hubert's too-easy reliance on Iron Man showed a preference for playing it safe over maximizing development.

There are some reasons why that may have been his preference previously but won't be this season:

Early in his HC career he may have felt his seat was a bit warm - meaning winning the current game took priority over developing for later in the year.​

​

Plus, a willingness to play a deep bench requires having confidence in the players. The Alabama game reminded us that confidence comes with a short leash for Hubert.​

From the little we've seen of Ian, Drake and Cade in the scrimmages, there's reason to think they may earn Hubert's confidence fairly quickly. Still some question marks among the bigs - although Zayden looks improved.

Nor would I expect Elliot or Seth to be consigned to the bench in close games this season.

 

[dtodd4475]

Hubert literally started Paxson Wojcik at the beginning of last year. I don't think he's afraid to play weird lineups. And it was pretty clear early on last year that Wojcik and High were not going to consistently contribute in meaningful games. So do you want to try to develop them in December?

All of this bench stuff is contingent on the bench being good enough to play and help you win. I don't completely understand the argument from the previous 3 years. The bench the last 3 years consisted of Puff Johnson, Dmarco Dunn, Dontrez Styles, Tyler Nickel, Justin McKoy, Paxson Wojcik, and the player on this year's team. Of those players, none of them played for an NCAA Tournament team last year other than Paxson Wojcik.

This team looks more talented off the bench on paper. But it's ultimately up to the players to show progression to play in those meaningful games. If Jackson and Powell are studs but Hubert plays them 5 MPG, then yes I'll be concerned. But Hubert's never had a good bench here. And the evidence of that is look where those bench players transferred to. We know Puff and Dmarco are not rotational players on a serious team. We don't know what Styles and Nickel would do with lesser roles on a serious team but they both at least showed they can be productive (in Styles' case on a terrible team and Nickel's case an average team). And sorry, I'm not blaming Hubert that Puff and Dmarco aren't good players for good teams today.

Ultimately we'll see what Hubert does with what looks to be a more talented bench. But to compare the last 3 years is a tad unfair IMO. He had some zeroes coming off the bench. The solution with zeroes is generally not to play them more.

I also feel that Hubert saw a significant drop off from his top guys and thier backups. Many clamored for more time for Cadeau, but it seemed that Hubert saw Seth as bringing enough that they split time at about 65/35. Mando, RJ, Cormac, and Harrison, on the other hand, were clearly above their backups, hence the 75 to 80/ 20 percentage splits.

On paper, the position battles look more competitive this year. Earning the minutes will still be Hubert's M.O., I believe. If someone separates by Christmas they will get the lion's share of minutes, if similar, they will split as needed. Earned not given minutes. Practices and early non marquee games should be very interesting to see who, or if, anyone grabs the bull by the horns to separate in the hierarchy and at what position/style.

 

[gary-7]

I agree that benches need to be developed, but you need to have a certain level of talent and skill to be developed into a useful player.

I'll disagree with last year too. Paxson Wojcik isn't developing more, he was what he was as a basketball player. He also got a good amount of minutes in the beginning of the season and his lineup data was absolutely horrendous. It isn't fair to him specifically, but on a per 40-minute basis, any lineup with him on the floor that exceeded a minimum threshold performed as literally one of the worst lineups in the country.

I don't think Jalen could physically consistently play enough to get to the minutes that you might be asking for. I thought he should've played more, but he wasn't giving 17 MPG consistently. At least to me he didn't look like he can physically do that all the time. I thought Seth and Withers played an appropriate number of minutes. I thought Withers' minutes were actually generous to how inconsistent he was and to his credit, he became a useful role player later on in the season.

So who's that missing? More minutes for High? I don't know about that.

But this year's bench looks more talented so we'll see what Hubert does. But I think to compare the last 3 seasons is a bit unfair. Seth Trimble is arguably the best bench player UNC has had under Hubert? And no offense to Seth, but he ain't Marvin Williams, Ed Davis, or the other pros Roy had come off the bench. And pros that would've been pros whether they came to UNC or not.

I stand by what I posted 100%. Every one of those guys (other than Pax, who got some) should have had more time early in the season. These guys aren't zeroes --- they are developing players, and will only do so if given the court time to do so.

This season, more so than ever, there is no question that needs to happen.

 

[NathanFielder]

I stand by what I posted 100%. Every one of those guys (other than Pax, who got some) should have had more time early in the seaosn. These guys aren't zeroes --- they are developing players, and will only do so if given the court time to do so.

This season, more so than ever, there is no question that needs to happen.

We'll disagree that the previous teams had anyone really worth anything. It's overly simplistic, but I think if Puff/Dunn were non-zeroes, they would impacted winning a lot more than going under .500. I've said it's harder for me to make any declarative statement on Styles. He at least produced, but I don't know how he would fit in a lesser role on a serious team.

I do agree that this season it needs to happen. But that's assuming Jackson is legit. And the other surrounding players take a step forward.