Who Should Be Our Lead Point Guard

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I get the sense that most people think we need to go with Caleb as our lead point guard. Some have said point blank that this team will only be as good to the extent that Caleb gets good in that spot. But is that true? Or could someone else do a better job? Does Caleb have the best PG chops? Would he be more valuable there or at another position And, more importantly, will he develop more into a true PG than the other options on the team. Ditto for the other potential PG candidates.

 

[Harpazo153]

I long for a Joel Berry type PG. Ran the team well, was a tough, outstanding leader and could score as well.

 

[strummingram]

Not having a true point guard is definitely not helping.

 

[Travis2262]

I vote for whoever can get the job done.

I have no idea who that person is at this point.

 

[King Coach]

We need Caleb to be the leader……he has the demeanor to be a leader. HD should put the ball in his hands and say “son no more of this two point guards crap. Here are the keys….now go lead this team”. Just that confidence boost and clear role alone will do wonders for him and this team.

 

[superstar57]

Caleb is our best option. He is not an assist guy like that unfurtunately, but look how he throws guys open for three point looks. He is just not an elite drive and dish guy. I think he is an above or elite driver to the basket.

Yes this team goes as far as Caleb takes us.

 

[DSouthr]

I prefer it be Caleb simply because he has more natural tools to work with but he was given the reins all last season and struggled with basic stuff, like ball security and attention to detail, as well as consistent work effort. So far looks to me as if RJ has got more of a soph bounce than Caleb has, hard to understand based on what I have heard so often over the summer. Both seem to me to be uncertain at points in the game, like they are not real sure what their role is so they just revert back to what they used to do. And we thought Ty Lawson was hard headed...

 

[King Coach]

I prefer it be Caleb simply because he has more natural tools to work with but he was given the reins all last season and struggled with basic stuff, like ball security and attention to detail, as well as consistent work effort. So far looks to me as if RJ has got more of a soph bounce than Caleb has, hard to understand based on what I have heard so often over the summer. Both seem to me to be uncertain at points in the game, like they are not real sure what their role is so they just revert back to what they used to do. And we thought Ty Lawson was hard headed...

Just watching that mess RJ did yesterday…..driving all wild and just throwing up wild shots….Please HD….please put that ball in Calebs hands

 

[Harpazo153]

Both were driving the lane in both games this weekend putting up contested shots in the lane and turning the ball over, so whichever one is PG needs to make better decisions with the ball and communicate better and be a leader. Both were chosen captains along with Armando-they are leaders and need to display better mature leadership for this team to succeed.

 

[Tarheel75]

One for all to consider: We rank 219th in assisted FG % thru 5 games. What does this speak to you about guard play?

 

[al would]

Hubert said it best when he said "i no longer make suggestions, I make decisions." Guess what hubbs .. you need to make some decisions. You can't have a true pg until you designate one and define his role. What you have now is free lance confusion on both sides of the ball and it aint gonna get the job done. You, and you alone are going to have to define the role of each man on this team and until you do YOUR ish show will continue. You can not have anyone on your team wondering what their role should be at any time or on either side of the ball.

 

[al would]

One for all to consider: We rank 219th in assisted FG % thru 5 games. What does this speak to you about guard play?

Tells me this aint the Carolina way.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

One for all to consider: We rank 219th in assisted FG % thru 5 games. What does this speak to you about guard play?

Clearly we aren't letting silly concerns like moving the ball around get in our way.

 

[Archer2]

F

I vote for whoever can get the job done.

I have no idea who that person is at this point.

We need Caleb to be the leader……he has the demeanor to be a leader. HD should put the ball in his hands and say “son no more of this two point guards crap. Here are the keys….now go lead this team”. Just that confidence boost and clear role alone will do wonders for him and this team.

I agree. I still say if he can master the mental aspects of the PG position, he has the athletic ability to be All-ACC. We need him to take command of this team, IMO.

One for all to consider: We rank 219th in assisted FG % thru 5 games. What does this speak to you about guard play?

Too much me ball and not enough we ball. Very un-Carolina like.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Hubert said it best when he said "i no longer make suggestions, I make decisions." Guess what hubbs .. you need to make some decisions. You can't have a true pg until you designate one and define his role. What you have now is free lance confusion on both sides of the ball and it aint gonna get the job done. You, and you alone are going to have to define the role of each man on this team and until you do YOUR ish show will continue. You can not have anyone on your team wondering what their role should be at any time or on either side of the ball.

I think the real question is whether Hubert is waiting for one of our PGs to prove he can be and wants to be that guy . . . or whether Hubert actually prefers a 2-PG offense.

Could be either one.

IF Hubert is waiting for Caleb or RJ to "win" the position, apparently neither PG has proved himself yet.

Alternatively, if Hubert really wants to go with a 2-PG offense, then things are on track but we just aren't good enough yet.

As rough as these first games have been on the PG front, we are scoring rather well. And it's only been 5 games.

Seems to me we are bitching about as much as we would at Roy at this stage of the season. But we are bitching about some different things. Which is not to say that our complaints aren't justified, just that we should probably give Hubert a longer leash.

That said, I understand that Larry Brown and George Karl are both packed and ready. So whenever THR decides to pull the plug, we just have to pick one. Or maybe both. I mean what better way to pick a coach than let the fans do it?

 

[Lewis&Miller]

Hubert said it best when he said "i no longer make suggestions, I make decisions." Guess what hubbs .. you need to make some decisions. You can't have a true pg until you designate one and define his role. What you have now is free lance confusion on both sides of the ball and it aint gonna get the job done. You, and you alone are going to have to define the role of each man on this team and until you do YOUR ish show will continue. You can not have anyone on your team wondering what their role should be at any time or on either side of the ball.

This is hitting the nail on the head in one paragraph. Winning will mask problems but when the losses begin, the issues become obvious. The solution, not so much.

This team has great talent. We can play big with Bacot, Garcia, and Manek. Then overload the perimeter with Love, RJ, and Walton. Hubert said before this weekend, Im not worried about the offense(we have the firepower). We may not have a true pg but this is the only position either Love or Davis will earn money from after Carolina. So they have a need to learn sooner rather than later.

Hubert and staff has to put a full court press on converting Love or Davis to this role. Neither plays very interested in this role. It is all about scoring. They attack the goal, rather than pass, attempt to finish over 2 defenders, while the 3 perimeter guys stay locked in place. This team doesn't play team ball, it plays the one with the ball ball.

Sure its early, but Hubert system so far has not remedied the point guard play from last year. This team is built to win in March with the frontcourt not the backcourt leading the way. Right now, the system seems highjacked.

 

[Archer2]

After a couple of bad years, many were calling for Roy’s head, a HOF coach with three titles. Fans have notoriously short memories.

I don’t think many people are calling for Hubert’s head. I don’t think they expected to see basic fundamental things executed so poorly either. If your team consistently commits unforced turnovers, can’t inbound the ball, takes poor shots early in the possession with only one or two passes(none down low), shows no interest in defending, etc…, fans are going to wonder what’s going on.

I‘m sure 99.9% of UNC fans want very much for Hubert to succeed. I know I do. I think he’s smart enough to see that these games have exposed some glaring problems that need addressing pronto. Looking for game by game improvement right now.

 

[tarwhiz]

We need Caleb to be the leader……he has the demeanor to be a leader. HD should put the ball in his hands and say “son no more of this two point guards crap. Here are the keys….now go lead this team”. Just that confidence boost and clear role alone will do wonders for him and this team.

Davis is a more confident player, and plays with energy at all tmes. Love will never be a leader as long as he only plays hards when things are going well for him.
Davis still has a great deal to learn about playing the pg position, but I can handle aggressive mistakes and lapse in judgment due to playing fast.
What I cannot tolerate is my lead guard sulking and showing poor body language on offense, and completely phoning it in on defense. The game against Tenn should embarrass Love as a Man and basketball player. I was embarrassed for him, and as a fan.

 

[King Coach]

Davis is a more confident player, and plays with energy at all tmes. Love will never be a leader as long as he only plays hards when things are going well for him.
Davis still has a great deal to learn about playing the pg position, but I can handle aggressive mistakes and lapse in judgment due to playing fast.
What I cannot tolerate is my lead guard sulking and showing poor body language on offense, and completely phoning it in on defense. The game against Tenn should embarrass Love as a Man and basketball player. I was embarrassed for him, and as a fan.

So you are ok with those selfish one man fast breaks that ends with wild shots at the basket? Or the turnovers?

 

[King Coach]

Davis is a more confident player, and plays with energy at all tmes. Love will never be a leader as long as he only plays hards when things are going well for him.
Davis still has a great deal to learn about playing the pg position, but I can handle aggressive mistakes and lapse in judgment due to playing fast.
What I cannot tolerate is my lead guard sulking and showing poor body language on offense, and completely phoning it in on defense. The game against Tenn should embarrass Love as a Man and basketball player. I was embarrassed for him, and as

Clearly we aren't letting silly concerns like moving the ball around get in our way.

Well when Garcia and Manek got the green light…..that ball don’t move as much

 

[King Coach]

Davis plays real hard on offense ……he gets killed on defense…..or don’t you see that? Or he looks like he’s pkaying stuff defense while getting blown by?

 

[gary-7]

I get the sense that most people think we need to go with Caleb as our lead point guard. Some have said point blank that this team will only be as good to the extent that Caleb gets good in that spot. But is that true? Or could someone else do a better job? Does Caleb have the best PG chops? Would he be more valuable there or at another position And, more importantly, will he develop more into a true PG than the other options on the team. Ditto for the other potential PG candidates.

TBH, its not really a question that should be controversial. With this roster Caleb should be the 1 any time he's on the floor. This interchanging deal needs to stop yesterday. As @King Coach aptly put it, all we've accomplished with that nonsense is having two confused players in the backcourt.

 

[tarwhiz]

So you are ok with those selfish one man fast breaks that ends with wild shots at the basket? Or the turnovers?

I didn't say that, I think he has a LOT to learn about the position.
Being the pg at North Carolina is as much about how you are perceived and received as it does about actual playing ability.
My pg can't be what I described what Love looked like in the Tenn game.
Both of these players are very talented, but only one has the " Skill" of playing hard all the time.
Yes, I feel this is a skill, and players have been paid accordingly through the years for this skill.

 

[tarwhiz]

Davis plays real hard on offense ……he gets killed on defense…..or don’t you see that? Or he looks like he’s pkaying stuff defense while getting blown by?

Davis is not a talented defender and it hurts the team.
Love is supposed to be a talented defender, and often chooses not to give any effort towards that end.
I believe that has longer lasting ramifications towards hurting the team.

 

[King Coach]

I didn't say that, I think he has a LOT to learn about the position.
Being the pg at North Carolina is as much about how you are perceived and received as it does about actual playing ability.
My pg can't be what I described what Love looked like in the Tenn game.
Both of these players are very talented, but only one has the " Skill" of playing hard all the time.
Yes, I feel this is a skill, and players have been paid accordingly through the years for this skill.

You know you can play hard doing all the wrong things. Best to play smart….I think Dean said that years ago

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

So you are ok with those selfish one man fast breaks that ends with wild shots at the basket? Or the turnovers?

Delighted with the fast breaks. Less happy with the missed drives.

The word "selfish" has no place in this conversation.

Clearly RJ is doing what has worked for him in the past. And it sometimes works for him now, too. He sees what he thinks is an opening and he goes for it.

The problem is this is college, not high school. He needs to relearn what counts as an "opening."

If he hasn't relearned it by now, he needs help relearning it.

I've heard there are people whose job it is to teach basketball players how to be better. I think they call them "coaches."

 

[TPFKAPFS]

How a baller can get confused playing basketball is beyond me! Both need to look in the mirror and commit to showing consistent effort; valuing the ball; giving maximum effort on D; and making the play that helps the TEAM at all times! I have no problem with an aggressive play even if it leads to a mistake IF the play makes sense in our offensive flow AND you get your arse back and make up for it on D!

I would have several D ONLY practices with the rims off and simply get them used to proper rotations. They need to know their teammates as well as themselves so they can anticipate where/when to help! They need to avoid the unnecessary help just as much as the matador syndrome! We have the physical potential to be a great defensive team but we haven't displayed the will and IQ as yet!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I'd be interested in hearing from our gurus on Turnovers from each of our PGs. I've noticed a bunch of times that Caleb tries to make a pass inside when the opening simply doesn't exist. But I'm less clear about the nature of RJ's TOs.

At the moment, they are tied for TOs with 10 each. RJ has a somewhat better A:TO because he has 23 assists to Caleb's 20.

I'm not sure who has the better handle. At a glance it's Caleb. But is that because RJ is pushing harder or because RJ's handle is actually looser?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

As for how to coach these guys to be better PGs, what special attention would you be giving them?

RJ's main issue seems to be driving into no man's land hell-bent on scoring, and without any intention of dishing (or any other backup plan) if he gets in trouble.

I'm no coach - which I'm sure is obvious - but I'd be inclined to spend lengthy practices where his instructions are to drive just as hard but NEVER try to score. ALWAYS pass to another teammate.

Get him to the point that not only is passing from the drive comfortable for him, but he's actually able to pick the best guy to pass to.

Would that help?

The thing is that he does that sometimes. He's had several nifty interior passes this year. But I don't think they are coming when he's in his score-or-die-trying attack mode. More when he's weaving through the interior. Which I'd like to see him do more often.

 

[Archer2]

I think both need to concentrate more on setting up their teammates, looking to facilitate the offense first and not force bad shots.

I saw a fast break where Garcia was closer to the basket and Love ignored him and drove right past him to dunk the ball. In another instance one of the two PG’s entered the ball to Mando who kicked the ball back out then repositioned himself right at the basket with his man pinned to his back and spread out begging for the ball. Our PG ignored him and jacked up a contested three which clanked off the rim. In both of those instances, we have to reward our bigs for running the floor and working so hard to get inside position.

That’s low basketball IQ, selfish play. I’m sure Hubert knows that is not Carolina basketball. Gary and 75 harp about making the extra pass and how crucial that is. It affects offensive efficiency as well as chemistry.

“It’s amazing what you can accomplish when no one is worried about who gets credit!”
D.E.S.

 

[tarwhiz]

You know you can play hard doing all the wrong things. Best to play smart….I think Dean said that years ago

Agree on that. Jack Nicklaus also said to swing the club like a MFer and figure out technique as you go. I am not interested in any half-ass attitudes in the leader of my team.

 

[gobblercalls]

Black and Dunn should start tonight with Lebo and Ant relieving them. The rest of the guards should sit the entire first half and learn something. No way under the sun has Hubert Davis not told them over and over what he expects, actually for 2 years now! No way under the sun should he have to teach effort. Sit 'em on the bench until they decide they can do it his way.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

In addition: Have them take home clips of every turnover they have made this year and study when/where/how they happen for themselves. They will begin to notice the teammates who were open or had better shots too. They should also compete for PT with each other IMO> Put one on the bench and start someone else. If your Asst/TO ratio is better in practice/games + defensive effort is better, you start the next one. Then when both are better, play them together if you wish, but keep it as an incentive against backsliding. I honestly think Caleb is the better choice for lead guard and RJ is a pure 2, but I don't see them in practice.

 

[DSouthr]

As for how to coach these guys to be better PGs, what special attention would you be giving them?

RJ's main issue seems to be driving into no man's land hell-bent on scoring, and without any intention of dishing (or any other backup plan) if he gets in trouble.

I'm no coach - which I'm sure is obvious - but I'd be inclined to spend lengthy practices where his instructions are to drive just as hard but NEVER try to score. ALWAYS pass to another teammate.

Get him to the point that not only is passing from the drive comfortable for him, but he's actually able to pick the best guy to pass to.

Would that help?

The thing is that he does that sometimes. He's had several nifty interior passes this year. But I don't think they are coming when he's in his score-or-die-trying attack mode. More when he's weaving through the interior. Which I'd like to see him do more often.

RJ needs to learn the Ty Lawson lesson, slow down to play faster, meaning do not play faster than you can be under control. Ty learned it, took a while but he did, RJ can as well. RJ does have a lot of TOs but his are more the ilk of trying to force something that isn't there. Reason for this is the openings in the college game close up much quicker than they did in high school. He can see a opening but he lowers his head and discovers that opening closed and he is caught in no man's land. I actually do like a lot of what I see in RJ as a point but Caleb has the size advantage and a huge reach advantage.

Caleb just seems to mentally check out every now and then, casual 1 handed unfocused passes, not really being able to see his team mates when he drives, hard to when your head is not up, really limits his ability to drive draw and kick.

The problem with both these guys is that when they make up their minds to drive they are 100% focused on finishing with no thoughts of slipping the ball to a big man out of the short corner or kick it back out to a spot up open shooter. I would think if this was charted, drives with the attempted finish to drives with a slip pass or a kick out, they would be around 90% trying to finish, that should be more 30-40% trying to finish. Lot of UNC fans may not like me if I were coach because I would pull you for the rest of that half the first time I watched you drive with your head down and ended up with a TO. Do it again in the second half and not only are you done for the rest of this game, you are done for the 1st half of the next game. I don't care who you are, don't care how many stars you had beside your name coming to UNC, you will play like I coach you to play or you will have a seat for the rest of this game. Not just a seat by the way, I am talking about your seat is a chair as far away from the rest of our bench players as we can, no, you sit there isolated, by yourself, you do not deserve to sit with the players, you have to earn that right back if you can not respect what you are being taught nor realize the harm you bring to your team. If you can not handle that, there is this transfer portal thing, use it.

You do not have to cuss, simply lay out the expectation and what will happen if you do not feel you need to embrace what you are taught and then enforce it to the letter no matter who the player may be. The bench is a heck of a motivator...

 

[tarwhiz]

In addition: Have them take home clips of every turnover they have made this year and study when/where/how they happen for themselves. They will begin to notice the teammates who were open or had better shots too. They should also compete for PT with each other IMO> Put one on the bench and start someone else. If your Asst/TO ratio is better in practice/games + defensive effort is better, you start the next one. Then when both are better, play them together if you wish, but keep it as an incentive against backsliding. I honestly think Caleb is the better choice for lead guard and RJ is a pure 2, but I don't see them in practice.

Love the clips part of this post and isn't that B Robs job currently? I could be wrong but Hoots used to do this job, but I think it falls to B Rob now?
While at it, I would show Caleb Love EVERY time he bailed out on his teammates defensively last game. I would bet THAT total is double figures.😔

 

[al would]

PG, especially at UNC, is a mentality and it should be natural coming up through the different levels of competition. I would love to see Lebo get some time in against UNCA .. and Ant.