Even if it is a little rough, isn't it worth it to have won another title? Even the worst case scenario isn't that bad. Keep the faith.
Garrison Brooks...
- Thread starter gary-7
- Start date
In 2013, Roy had a co-PG on the floor most of the time (Dexter), and another competent ball handler (Reggie). That's what enabled Marcus to weather the storm of being thrown into the starting PG slot.
Do you expect Jalek to be better than Marcus?
For those of us who see 7th as similar to Dex, that could argue for having 7th start at SG over Kenny, if we are going to hand the ball to Jalek.
My guess is that if 7th makes good strides over the summer and Berry leaves, 7th will start the season as our PG - with Jalek getting plenty of minutes as backup. Whether the season ends that way is a different question.
I don't think that is an either-or choice. If we had fallen short by a game or 2 this season, I imagine we'd be having this same conversation, wondering whether Berry and Bradley would leave.
Could be worse. If Theo had come back earlier and hadn't had that other injury, we might be talking about Theo leaving, too. The talent seems to be there, but it needs to be on display and be reliable for a full season.
In time, yes. Even as a freshman, yes I do.
For those of us who see 7th as similar to Dex, that could argue for having 7th start at SG over Kenny, if we are going to hand the ball to Jalek.
My guess is that if 7th makes good strides over the summer and Berry leaves, 7th will start the season as our PG - with Jalek getting plenty of minutes as backup. Whether the season ends that way is a different question.[/QUOTE]IMO, Seventh will have to make huge strides over the summer to keep Jalek from starting if Joel leaves. I think Jalek is just that good. As you say, Roy may start Seventh initially, but I don't see him keeping Jalek from starting by ACC time.
More so than usual, this year we have a best case scenario and a worst case scenario that look very different.
Best Case Scenario 13 Players
SR Berry
SO Seventh
JR Kenny
FR Jalek
FR Andrew
SO Brandon
SR Theo
FR Knox
JR Luke
SO Tony
FR Brooks
FR Huff
FR Stirling
Worst Case Scenario 9 Players
SO Seventh
JR Kenny
FR Jalek
FR Andrew
SO Brandon
SR Theo
JR Luke
FR Huff
FR Stirling
We also just desperately need an elite big man if Tony leaves, which is why it was so shocking we couldn't land one this cycle. What if we had Deandre Ayton, Nick Richards, Mohamed Bamba, or Wendell Carter coming in? That's who are top competitors in recruiting landed. We wouldn't be nearly as worried about Tony leaving. I don't get why no one was interested with so much playing time available.
Just saw that if Tony leaves next year will be the first time (in all likelyhood) EVER we've not had a McDonald's All-American in the frontcourt since the all-star game started in 1976. 40 years in a row with an elite big-man recruit. We need Tony back for balance and then we need to find someone in the 2018 class.
Just saw that if Tony leaves next year will be the first time (in all likelyhood) EVER we've not had a McDonald's All-American in the frontcourt since the all-star game started in 1976. 40 years in a row with an elite big-man recruit. We need Tony back for balance and then we need to find someone in the 2018 class.
This is very concerning and is exactly why myself and several others have been concerned with recent recruiting. The fact is, the 2015, 2016, and now 2017 classes were going to catch up to us at some point and next season may be when it does. We were fortunate over the last few years to have a roster full of McDonald's All Americans that stayed 3-4 years. I'm gonna hope for the best as Roy continues to recruit 2017 kids but a potential depth chart of Huffman, Maye and Manley is extremely concerning.
Its concerning but we will squeeze out a winning record on a gravy year...
Truly not trying to give you a hard time, but seriously? Back to back FF's, a natty, a solid if not overwhelming recruiting class coming in and with the possibility still of adding even more great player(S)......I think global warming, the Middle East and Roseanne Barr are concerning, but I'm pretty sure UNC basketball recruiting will be ok.....
I acknowledge our recent success and provided comment as to why it has happened. That recent success was on the backs of many burger boys to of which we aren't getting recently. If Tony leaves, do you feel confident going thru the season with Maye, Huffman and Manley down low? The stat that Gaucho provided is eye popping. To say recruiting will be fine because it always has been is naive. You've got to see the reality of the last three classes.
I guess my perspective is first, this recruiting class isn't over - second, everything is cyclical - third, Roy's been dealing with a deck stacked against him - and finally, it's just college basketball.....as much as I love Tar Heels basketball, it's not what makes my world go on.
Like you said, it may be a rough season with the bigs we have. So be it - we will live through a down year and then make our way back. That's my point - our recent success can more than sustain me as a fan.
Like you said, it may be a rough season with the bigs we have. So be it - we will live through a down year and then make our way back. That's my point - our recent success can more than sustain me as a fan.
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Very well stated. It is not our birthright to have a top 10 team every year, contrary to what some seem to think. We came within a whisker of winning the title last year and we went back and won it this year. Enjoy the present guys. Tomorrow may not come.
Obviously if you're a great PG in a weaker pg draft class you'll have a chance to go higher, but Joel Berry does not fit the ideal mold of today's NBA PGs and neither does Frank Mason. Both are undersized, below the rim PGs. Joel Berry might be my favorite Tar Heel of all time, but he'll need more than a NPOY type season next year to be a "LOCK" for the first round in ANY NBA draft. Take off the light blue shades and look at this realistically.
So many are selling out the guys we have coming in, especially the bigs. As for me, I trust Roy & believe he has a plan. Luke is going to blow up & play 22-25 min a game, Kenny is going to play some 3 in a small lineup, & Theo is going to be a game changer next year (if healthy) & may even man the 5 spot (a la Robert Brickey from the dark side) in some sutuations next year. And the improvement in Brandon Robinson's game from this year to next is going to be the subject of multiple THR threads next year. Brooks, Huffman & Manley are going to provide 20+ min & nearly double digit points & rebounds (collectively). Pardon me for being an optimist, just the way I roll.
I agree with this because if Tony does in fact leave the freshmen bigs will have to play 20 mins and get close to double digit pts/rb collectively. The freshmen won't get as much time if Roy gets a grad transfer or should I say depending on who it is.
Well at least you understand the basic point, the draft after will be lighter for PGs. Now why the need to put words in my mouth? Did I say he would be a lock, no, I didn't. So take off your blinders and as for me, my goggles do not hinder my common sense.
Agreed that both are undersized, but pretty much every PG - even in the NBA - is a "below the rim PG". The one exception I can think of is Russell Westbrook.
Parsing hairs here. There is a notable difference in athleticism from say De'Aaron Fox or John Wall to Joel Berry. That's what the OP is trying to say.
Definitely, and I agree with that assessment. They're all playing below the rim though - none of those guys are skying for boards over big men.
You said Mason made his best case as a first rounder (I agree). Immediately after you said "Mason just so happens to be in a draft as a SR that is big time loaded with PGs." Which seems to insinuate he'd be a first rounder in a draft class that isn't loaded with big time PGs, but based on the statistics, that's simply incorrect. He's currently listed as the LAST OVERALL PICK in the draft express mock. Let's say Mason's SR year is inserted next year (same age, same size, same stats). If you believe he'd go from dead last and potentially undrafted to the first round simply bc it's a different draft class with fewer elite PGs, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. There's ....4..... active NBA players listed at Mason's height or shorter. Of the four, Ty Lawson is the only one that was a 1st round draft pick. He lacked the height, but athleticism wise (specifically overall foot speed and quickness) he was vastly superior to his counterparts (and Mason for that matter as well).
As I have said before, he's undersized, he plays what scouts refer to as "below the rim", his foot speed and lateral quickness are just average for the PG position in the NBA. NPOY is great, but means nothing to NBA scouts. PGs with a listed playing height under 6 feet, with average athleticism (for the PG position) rarely get drafted in the 1st round. Care to argue that?
OK, you guys are indeed to hung up on Rankings-Mickey D's etc.
What do all these have in common besides being Bigs and being Tar Heels?
Neil Fingleton
Kris Lang
Vasco Evitmov
Matt Winstrom
Pete Budko
Give our current Bigs a chance to see what they can do, you might just be surprised.
What do all these have in common besides being Bigs and being Tar Heels?
Neil Fingleton
Kris Lang
Vasco Evitmov
Matt Winstrom
Pete Budko
Give our current Bigs a chance to see what they can do, you might just be surprised.
They are all caucasians.
Well. If that's the case I can refute his point with at least 20 all American big men who ended up being awesome for unc.
I am just not sure how that means guys who were not only not McD's AA's but were not ranked in the top 100.......Lang had a nice career averaged 14 his Sr. season and almost 11 for career. Dean and Evtimov knocked heads cause Evtimov wanted to shoot from the perimeter and Dean wanted him to bang inside. Evtimov played in 2 F4's and professionally in several different countries.
Thing is, maybe we had some guys play in the Micky D, but don't you consider kids in that game to be near or absolute 1&done guys? WE didn't have any legit 1&doner, even Tony may be 1&D but he should not be in a sane world. What led us to this title was Jr and Senior players and a low 3star kid (Luke).
My point, we did not have a single freshman on either of our last 2 teams that had great frosh seasons individually. Not sure we have had a great freshman since Barnes and it may be a stretch to say he did, T-50 was a beast as a frosh but if not Barnes then it is back to Tyler Hans. Roy develops them in to players rather than getting the top of the top cream of the crop.
Some of our frosh would likely produce more as frosh but we usually have experienced upper classmen that get more of the minutes and responsibility.
THATS just it, You feel as if you have to refute everything. Sorry no dog in the race just obvious.
Sorry Heelz. had a long day, but sometimes I try to take statements for the good. Not everyone is trying to argue. Some just see the good side statements.
I for one am not going to worry about it. If Bradley leaves and if Knox does not come, we will not be "loaded" and an odds on favorite to make it to the final four again. But all in all, we still have more pieces left than we did in 2006.
We do not have a Hansbrough type in the incoming class, but we do have some nice pieces that could really improve by the time next March rolls around. And we do have a really good point guard returning.
I don't know what will happen, but I believe that Roy will mold the group into a competitive unit, and I believe that we will enjoy watching the likes of Manley, Huffington, and Brooks grow along the front line as well as watch a lot of small ball as Jalek et all learn to fit in with the returning perimeter players.
I do expect that our defense will be better at first than our offense. But who knows. I'm just going to enjoy the coming season.
We do not have a Hansbrough type in the incoming class, but we do have some nice pieces that could really improve by the time next March rolls around. And we do have a really good point guard returning.
I don't know what will happen, but I believe that Roy will mold the group into a competitive unit, and I believe that we will enjoy watching the likes of Manley, Huffington, and Brooks grow along the front line as well as watch a lot of small ball as Jalek et all learn to fit in with the returning perimeter players.
I do expect that our defense will be better at first than our offense. But who knows. I'm just going to enjoy the coming season.
