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Afgan withdraw

Well if he says he is then so
Be it. I don’t lump everyone left of center as liberal nor right of center as conservative. I save those labels for the extremists. I think you can be considered independent on a pretty wide spectrum encompassing both sides of center. But that’s jmo.
don't you think being liberal or being conservative is what puts you on either side of the center line? Maybe it's possible to be a centrist who straddles the line, but when you look at the greatly divergent POV's that the sides have taken, it's actually hard to see how one does that, unless it's just an attitude without much motivation and substantiation behind it. You chose Biden. Of course, your only other choice was someone you had no intention of ever voting for, so you aligned with the liberals. I don't see it as any different in our politics in general. You are repelled (repulsed?) by what the other side in general stands for, so you choose the side, extremes and all, that most nearly matches your outlook.

And I grit my teeth when someone says 'if we could only find it within ourselves to compromise, we could get things done.'. Well yeah, sure, you could get things done that you are dead set against. To me, compromise is bullshit. If you believe in something, stand behind it.

If our system was different and a third party had an honest chance to gain traction, I'd do some line straddling myself as a libertarian. The problem with that is, the term libertarian covers almost as much territory as the two major parties do. I think it would end up being the same dilemma, except I don't think there would be much of a center line to be on either side of. More like a matrix.
 
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don't you think being liberal or being conservative is what puts you on either side of the center line? Maybe it's possible to be a centrist who straddles the line, but when you look at the greatly divergent POV's that the sides have taken, it's actually hard to see how one does that, unless it's just an attitude without much motivation and substantiation behind it. You chose Biden. Of course, your only other choice was someone you had no intention of ever voting for, so you aligned with the liberals. I don't see it as any different in our politics in general. You are repelled (repulsed?) by what the other side in general stands for, so you choose the side, extremes and all, that most nearly matches your outlook.

And I grit my teeth when someone says 'if we could only find it within ourselves to compromise, we could get things done.'. Well yeah, sure, you could get things done that you are dead set against. To me, compromise is bullshit. If you believe in something, stand behind it.

If our system was different and a third party had an honest chance to gain traction, I'd do some line straddling myself as a libertarian. The problem with that is, the term libertarian covers almost as much territory as the two major parties do. I think it would end up being the same dilemma, except I don't think there would be much of a center line to be on either side of. More like a matrix.
I’m left of center on some issues, right on others. It’s not compromise it’s just what I feel. But I’m repulsed by what BOTH sides stand for. Partisan politics that puts party agenda ahead of country. They can all gft. The fact I have to choose one set of lying hypocrites over the other saddens me to no end.
 
Biden admin:
  • pulls out of Afghanistan and gives up Kabul even faster than the Taliban expected or hoped for​
  • has visuals of Afghans dropping from US transport planes, then hanging from US helicopters a few days later​
  • gives up ~ $80B in US high-tech military equipment to be used by / sold to every US and Allies enemy imaginable.​
  • Gives up Bagram air base without a fight, the place most important for an orderly withdrawal, pushing the withdrawal to KHI airport, a non-defendable pen for Taliban and ISIS to round up and slaughter humans wanting to leave​
  • gives names of US citizens and Afghan supporters to the Taliban​
  • somehow allows ISIS-K to detonate a suicide bomb, killing 13 US Marines / servicemen and women, and over 100 other civilians. It appears based on actions taken afterward we had some knowledge that the attack would happen​
  • as retaliation, US drone strikes a "terrorist target", taking out an entire family of civilians, killing 7 women/children​
  • Says to the world on several occasions that US troops will not all leave until every American that wants out, is taken out of Afghanistan. Obliterates that promise / commitment just a few days later, with last US troops and planes leaving Afghanistan yesterday, with hundreds of US citizens who are fighting for their lives, trying to get out, abandoned by the govt whose sole purpose is to protect them. It is reported that several in the Biden admin were seen cheering as they viewed the last plane leave Afghanistan. Mission accomplished! Hell of a victory.​
  • Still nobody in the admin even considering terminations or resignations. No shame. No accountability.​
This doesn't seem good. Just when one thinks it can't get any worse regarding actions and optics, they dig a deeper hole.

I don't think this will go away soon in the minds of US citizens. Especially if/ when? they see pictures / videos of US citizens abandoned, captured, tortured, killed by Taliban, ISIS, Al Queda. I obviously hope this doesn't happen, but it is a real possibility.
 
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Biden admin:
  • pulls out of Afghanistan and gives up Kabul even faster than the Taliban expected or hoped for​
  • has visuals of Afghans dropping from US transport planes, then hanging from US helicopters a few days later​
  • gives up ~ $80B in US high-tech military equipment to be used by / sold to every US and Allies enemy imaginable.​
  • Gives up Bagram air base without a fight, the place most important for an orderly withdrawal, pushing the withdrawal to KHI airport, a non-defendable pen for Taliban and ISIS to round up and slaughter humans wanting to leave​
  • gives names of US citizens and Afghan supporters to the Taliban​
  • somehow allows ISIS-K to detonate a suicide bomb, killing 13 US Marines / servicemen and women, and over 100 other civilians. It appears based on actions taken afterward we had some knowledge that the attack would happen​
  • as retaliation, US drone strikes a target, taking out an entire family of civilians, killing 7 women/children​
  • Says to the world on several occasions that US troops will not all leave until every American that wants out, is taken out of Afghanistan. Obliterates that promise / commitment just a few days later, with last US troops and planes leaving Afghanistan yesterday, with hundreds of US citizens who are fighting for their lives, trying to get out, abandoned by the govt whose sole purpose is to protect them. It is reported that several in the Biden admin were seen cheering as they viewed the last plane leave Afghanistan. Mission accomplished! Hell of a victory.​
  • Still nobody in the admin even considering terminations or resignations. No shame. No accountability.​
This doesn't seem good. Just when one thinks it can't get any worse regarding actions and optics, they dig a deeper hole.

I don't think this will go away soon in the minds of US citizens. Especially if/ when? they see pictures / videos of US citizens abandoned, captured, tortured, killed by Taliban, ISIS, Al Queda. I obviously hope this doesn't happen, but it is a real possibility.


/thread
 
Would be great if @blazers and @prlyles could tell us all of the good in that poast.
What were you expecting? It's like you'd expect a parade as players leave the field if UNC got their ass kicked in an away game at Liberty that we'd paid millions for.

Any departure was going to be some level of "very bad".

The only good is that we're finally done fighting an unwinnable war which killed approx 2,400 americans and wasted money for no permanent gain (aside for cash in pockets of DOD contractors).


2,400+
 
What were you expecting? It's like you'd expect a parade as players leave the field if UNC got their ass kicked in an away game at Liberty that we'd paid millions for.

Any departure was going to be some level of "very bad".

The only good is that we're finally done fighting an unwinnable war which killed approx 2,400 americans and wasted money for no permanent gain (aside for cash in pockets of DOD contractors).


2,400+
I had no idea that Biden could still get it up but here you are proving he can.
 
I guess they admin left a bunch of US military service dogs over there, to starve, be eaten, etc. I personally like dogs a lot, and I'm guessing the US troops see these dogs as similar regarding commitment and loyalty of their fellow human soldiers.

Leaving the service dogs behind is just another completely unnecessary, avoidable twist of the knife, salt in the wound. There are no words for how inhumane, despicable, disgraceful this bumbling, corrupt admin is.
 
I guess they admin left a bunch of US military service dogs over there, to starve, be eaten, etc. I personally like dogs a lot, and I'm guessing the US troops see these dogs as similar regarding commitment and loyalty of their fellow human soldiers.

Leaving the service dogs behind is just another completely unnecessary, avoidable twist of the knife, salt in the wound. There are no words for how inhumane, despicable, disgraceful this bumbling, corrupt admin is.
But, But it was going to be messy no matter what.
 
Gives up Bagram air base without a fight, the place most important for an orderly withdrawal,
This is the thing that confuses me the most. Why just pick up in the middle of the night without even giving notice to the afghans? Even if they hadn't planned on using it (hint, they should have) why not at least give a proper hand off. Especially with prisoners being there. It makes absolutely no sense. But apparently Bush, Obama and Trump would have done the exact same thing. We know this because Biden blazers told us so.
 
What were you expecting? It's like you'd expect a parade as players leave the field if UNC got their ass kicked in an away game at Liberty that we'd paid millions for.

Any departure was going to be some level of "very bad".

The only good is that we're finally done fighting an unwinnable war which killed approx 2,400 americans and wasted money for no permanent gain (aside for cash in pockets of DOD contractors).


2,400+
LOL, top ten most idiotic posts of all time. @blazers apparently has a crystal ball which allows him to see how it would be under all different circumstances, such that he can deem Biden's effort just so-so in terms of FUBARing a mission...in spite of all of the rest of the world being able to see for ourselves what did not have to be.

There's "bad" and then there's "very bad", and then you have "obscenely, outrageously, and inexplicably boneheadedly bad". " Very bad" would have been a picnic compared to this Biden clusterfvck.
 
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Especially with prisoners being there. It makes absolutely no sense. But apparently Bush, Obama and Trump would have done the exact same thing. We know this because Biden blazers told us so.
Don't know about Bush/Obama, but Trump already released 5,000 terrorists from the prisons in Advance as part of the withdrawal agreement.
 
This is the thing that confuses me the most. Why just pick up in the middle of the night without even giving notice to the afghans? Even if they hadn't planned on using it (hint, they should have) why not at least give a proper hand off.
Do you actually believe Biden is the one making the decision on whether or not to leave Bagram? Aside for the Yea or Nay of leave/stay and the timeline, does he make decisions on logistics of this stuff?
 
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I guess they admin left a bunch of US military service dogs over there, to starve, be eaten, etc. I personally like dogs a lot, and I'm guessing the US troops see these dogs as similar regarding commitment and loyalty of their fellow human soldiers.

Leaving the service dogs behind is just another completely unnecessary, avoidable twist of the knife, salt in the wound. There are no words for how inhumane, despicable, disgraceful this bumbling, corrupt admin is.
Biden wanted the dogs to be removed but Kamala overrode him on the decision. She's a cat lover.
 
Trump already released 5,000 terrorists from the prisons in Advance as part of the withdrawal agreement.
Hey @dadika13, can you make me one of those Simpsons chalkboard things that say "This is about the execution, not the withdrawal decision"? TIA
Do you actually believe Biden is the one making the decision on whether or not to leave Bagram? Aside for the Yea or Nay of leave/stay and the timeline, does he make decisions on logistics of this stuff?
Well, if he wasn't involved in one of the biggest decisions of the withdrawal plan, that's another screwup on his part. And he should definitely fire whoever came up with that dumb idea if they did it without notifying the president. Actually he should fire them regardless, because that's a WTF decision.
 
Hey @dadika13, can you make me one of those Simpsons chalkboard things that say "This is about the execution, not the withdrawal decision"? TIA

Well, if he wasn't involved in one of the biggest decisions of the withdrawal plan, that's another screwup on his part. And he should definitely fire whoever came up with that dumb idea if they did it without notifying the president. Actually he should fire them regardless, because that's a WTF decision.
You're pinning execution details, like timing of leaving Bagram from a defensive as well as evac position, on Biden?
 
That is dumb. If you hire an electrician to do work at your house then that night you have an electrical fire in the area he was working are you going to say "well there would have been a fire regardless of who the electrician was"?
had prior electricians and home contractors fubar'd the house for 20 yrs without correction, making the electrical system a catastrophic, unsupportable mess? In our case it was kinda the same electrician the whole time (past/present politicians and military leaders all shoulder some blame ultimately).

Let's not forget that in addition to 2,400 young men and women who died in uniform, we also killed 4k to 10k civilians accidentally via drone strikes over the last 20 yrs.

Let's not pretend Afghanistan was a comfy, peaceful, rosy place - ever.
 
You're pinning execution details, like timing of leaving Bagram from a defensive as well as evac position, on Biden?
Well, if he wasn't involved in one of the biggest decisions of the withdrawal plan, that's another screwup on his part. And he should definitely fire whoever came up with that dumb idea if they did it without notifying the president. Actually he should fire them regardless, because that's a WTF decision.
 
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I can’t imagine someone defending Biden on this.

He either botched the execution of the withdrawal himself or he was so far removed that he had nothing to do with it in which case what the hell is he actually doing.

Happened on his watch, thus he gets the blame. Dems were all too quick to do the same exact thing to Trump.
 
Hey @dadika13, can you make me one of those Simpsons chalkboard things that say "This is about the execution, not the withdrawal decision"? TIA

Well, if he wasn't involved in one of the biggest decisions of the withdrawal plan, that's another screwup on his part. And he should definitely fire whoever came up with that dumb idea if they did it without notifying the president. Actually he should fire them regardless, because that's a WTF decision.
Isn't POTUS the highest ranking person in the military chain of command? Was when I served. He gave that cluster the stamp of approval whether he designed it or let someone else do it. He is responsible x10000000000%
 
You mean he really said "bravely" instead of "bravery?" Are you kidding???

Bush and Trump were raked over the coals for less. So just shut up and let Archer heckle him.

As for the actual speech, the audacity it would take to characterize the Afghanistan situation as an “extraordinary success” is remarkable. It’s apparent the current administration thinks very little of American citizens’ intelligent level.
 
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Bush and Trump were raked over the coals for less. So just shut up and let Archer heckle him.

As for the actual speech, the audacity it would take to characterize the Afghanistan situation as an “extraordinary success” is remarkable. It’s apparent the current administration thinks very little of American citizens’ intelligent level.
I'm not concerned about what Bush said or what Trump said. Bush had annual rip calendars for his verbal gaffes, so that doesn't surprise me.

But, back to the subject at-hand:

You mean he really said "bravely" instead of "bravery?" Are you kidding??? That's a travesty.
 
I'm not concerned about what Bush said or what Trump said. Bush had annual rip calendars for his verbal gaffes, so that doesn't surprise me.

But, back to the subject at-hand:

You mean he really said "bravely" instead of "bravery?" Are you kidding??? That's a travesty.
He can’t speak thirty words without misspeaking. But it doesn’t surprise me that you missed the main point re: the “extraordinary success of the withdrawal “. Interested in our offer of a free relocation?
 
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He can’t speak thirty words without misspeaking. But it doesn’t surprise me that you missed the main point re: the “extraordinary success of the withdrawal “. Interested in our offer of a free relocation?
"Our offer?"

If it only it were that easy. Just remove the people that don't think the same way that you think. That sounds pretty boring to me.
 
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Not often I agree with Blazers on this board but I question how involved Biden was on this. Sure he gets the blame but I really dont think he has the mental ability to undesrtand what is going on especially something this complex. I guess you could also argue that if Biden was not n charge of this exit deal then the person that was doesnt have the mental ability to understand what was going on.
 
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Not often I agree with Blazers on this board but I question how involved Biden was on this. Sure he gets the blame but I really dont think he has the mental ability to undesrtand what is going on especially something this complex. I guess you could also argue that if Biden was not n charge of this exit deal then the person that was doesnt have the mental ability to understand what was going on.
If any of this is the case, he has absolutely no business in office. Really none in the administration. If Trump did this, the world would be on 🔥 📛 👨‍🚒 🚒 🧯 🎆
 
Not often I agree with Blazers on this board but I question how involved Biden was on this. Sure he gets the blame but I really dont think he has the mental ability to undesrtand what is going on especially something this complex. I guess you could also argue that if Biden was not n charge of this exit deal then the person that was doesnt have the mental ability to understand what was going on.
If that's true, his job now is to fire those who made the decisions. I suspect now that we are out, you'll see some resignations.
 
If that's true, his job now is to fire those who made the decisions. I suspect now that we are out, you'll see some resignations.
A ton of Intel / Military thought the Afghans would hold up longer than they did. You can't "fire" half the CIA and half the military.

I'd fire the person who thought leaving Bagram airfield was wise, but were they relying on "solid" Intel that was just bad?
 
I guess they admin left a bunch of US military service dogs over there, to starve, be eaten, etc. I personally like dogs a lot, and I'm guessing the US troops see these dogs as similar regarding commitment and loyalty of their fellow human soldiers.

Leaving the service dogs behind is just another completely unnecessary, avoidable twist of the knife, salt in the wound. There are no words for how inhumane, despicable, disgraceful this bumbling, corrupt admin is.
The situation is bad, but don't make it worse.

The dogs weren't US military service dogs.

They belonged to Afghans, embassy employees, and independent defense contractors that left. These people have known since Feb 2020 the US was leaving.
 
A ton of Intel / Military thought the Afghans would hold up longer than they did. You can't "fire" half the CIA and half the military.

I'd fire the person who thought leaving Bagram airfield was wise, but were they relying on "solid" Intel that was just bad?
Biden knew.
 
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