I come in peace.
- Thread starter Wyohoosier1
- Start date
Do you think we are only the 14th best team? ha If so, I have a bridge I'll sell you! The problem is, that 14th ranking (which as a 5 seed would actually make us ranked 17-20) is how people see IU. That in turn effects betting which in turn effects the line. This is simple stuff. I can assure you a lot of UNC fans are betting that are not knowledgable on IU, it just happens that way.
Unc has a better record playing a tougher schedule in a tougher conference. Arguing that IU is as good is a waste of everyone's time. But we'll let the game decide.
Sorry. I'm a stickler for clarity. What does "short list of players who are just as equally good" mean?
Put Yogi somewhere on a top 10 list of guards or overall players, fine. But that whole list of players aren't equally good. Some are just better. Its not like the short list (let's pick 10) are all equal, and that any team would prefer to have them on their team this year, or draft them.
I do respect Yogi, but is he "just as equally good" as Buddy Hield, Simmons, Brogdon, Dunn, Ingram.... just because he might be on the same top 10 list as them? No. These guys are all better. That doesn't take away from what Yogi is - and has- done. But the relativism of "lets just say there's a group of good guys and they're all just as equally good" is a disservice to the true best players in the country. (Note that I didn't even mention any Heels in the discussion).
So to summarize ky is better than uva and the big ten is better than the acc.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go home dude you're drunk
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go home dude you're drunk
I'm referring to PG's. There are only a few each season that stand out as the best in the country and he is on the short list. As far as players, Valentine, Hield, Simmons, Ingram are game changers in their own way. Yogi can take games over but Valentine and Simmons do more than just scoring or just passing. They can do it all and are so versatile that it's hard to put Yogi at that level.
The lines are set for Vegas to make money. It is not always even indicative of what they think of either teams. It is based on what they know of teams and off what they know of betting habits. Now, they have to be reasonable or the sharp money will come in and kill them. So, they can't go all nuts with some lines because the general public will place a few best because then the experts will kill them. Still, Vegas lines are what they are, which is a way for the house to make money. That's obviously one reason they move.
As for Paige, he is a very good defender and does a lot of things well even when he isn't hitting. He has struggled for sure this year shooting though. If he is hitting consistently then UNC is almost impossible to beat. However, that has hardly happened this year. It should be an interesting matchup. I don't think IU wants to go as fast as UNC does (they have not come close this year tbh as almost 100 places separate the two in adjusted tempo) but they still do like to play a fairly uptempo game. With their ability to score so well that should make for an exciting game. To me, the key is UNC's defense. It has been much better over the last few weeks. If they play as well on that end as they have been I think they win. However, nothing is going to be easy. IU is too good for that IMO. This is one of the few matchups were UNC could play reasonably well and still not win if their opponent plays well. I think if UNC plays really well they win obviously but it is tough to always play really well against good teams.
Yea we refer to it as the "i got my ass handed to me for being a flaming idiot so i have to ignore a poster i dont have the intelligence to argue with" button
My math sometimes is not all that good--can u please tell me how ACC teams are in the sweet 16 versus how many big ten teams are there..
With Paige having a little more length than Yogi and being a good defender, that will be big if he can merely keep Yogi in front of him. Yogi will shoot from far out and will use a hesitation dribble to get penetration into the post. When down low he almost always finishes so the idea would be to just keep him from getting there. Yogi is a great shooter but has off games so to keep the rest of the team at bay, it's best to just keep Yogi out of the lane and force him to shoot. Not many teams have been able to accomplish this but it's truly the key to beating Indiana.
If that doesn't happen, if UNC can get Thomas Bryant in early foul trouble and force Troy Williams to get out of control, the game could get out of hand. Troy has his games where he plays the game faster than his feet or his mind will allow. He's an athletic freak of nature with a lot of raw talent and good dribbling capability but tends to just plain be wild. At times he will remind you of a newborn fawn that's still trying to get his legs under him. That's why you'll hear a lot about NBA prospect with this kid. His shot is decent but not great. His defense is decent but seems to make his big plays blocking guys from behind at the rim when they get around screens. Meaning they get into the lane around him. ha
Aside from ND over UM, ACC teams didn't play B1G teams in the tournament so the best comparison I can provide you is when the B1G actually played vs the ACC. Kind of a crazy idea, I know.
Not to mention you were given 2 one seeds so your path was paved much easier.
Nope. I think they are better than that. A bunch of sportswriters just thought that a couple weeks ago.
Again, betters who bet for a living DO NOT LOOK AT seeding, or ranking. That'd get them killed financially. As many have eloquently argued here, they look at recent results, player matchups, tendencies, etc.... factual stats and historical performance.
I think its also a misconception to think that the line in this game is driven up by UNC fans betting on their team, being overconfident, and or looking at "hey look at UNC's seeding / ranking, vs. IU's".
Bleed could clarify if I'm wrong, but I'd guess more money on this game or any other game comes from outside those teams' fan bases....
instead from people who again, bet frequently regardless of who the team is but avoid their favorite teams, to avoid the double whammy of emotional and financial investment clouding their judgment ....and double pain if they lose.
UVA and we weren't "given" anything. We both earned 1 seeds, from November to mid-March.
Here are cold, objective, stats and results based facts (ie from unbiased computer calculations:
BPI top 15: ACC 5, Big 10 2 (UVA and UNC yes, IU no) UNC and UVA are #1 and #2 in BPI
RPI top 10: ACC 3, Big 10 0 (UVA and UNC yes, IU no)
RPI SOS: UVA 1, UNC 6, IU 100
BPI and RPI look at all games across all opponents, in and out of conference, and how your opponents fare within the season, and look at margins of victory, road success, etc.
I keep saying none of these has anything to do with Friday. They just factually show who was the better conference, including UVA's rightful standing as a legit contender.
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Well, they weren't really given anything. Those one seeds were earned by both teams. I don't think there is any good counter otherwise when looking at the resumes. I get the argument for MSU but that is kind of rendered obsolete at this point.
The challenge was a long time ago. I get holding onto it for this argument though. Both conferences are very good. Right now, with what has transpired in the tournament, it seems a little silly to deny the ACC as the conference that is the most proven right now. Big Ten teams haven't played ACC teams in the tournament because they have lost to inferior opponents. That is kind of on them.
Lol find one, JUST ONE, media rating service or poll that has ky over uva or the big ten over the acc. JUST ONE.
Smfh
Smfh
Hopefully you will be getting a tombstone soon!
Not too sure what that means but IU is likely to get the W soon?
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I think your CAPS BUTTON IS STUCK. I never said anything about betters who bet for a living do or don't look at seeding. Why again is that being brought up as if I said that? Please copy and paste where I talked about educated and informed betters using the seeding as the only reference guide. Bet you can't find it. I refuse to comment on this issue if my previous comment wasn't read thoroughly enough. It's like you're debating a mythical opinion so you can yell for no reason.
You - YOTHN said: "The problem is, that 14th ranking (which as a 5 seed would actually make us ranked 17-20) is how people see IU. That in turn effects betting which in turn effects the line. This is simple stuff. "
Chill, dude....
copied and pasted per your request. How much were you betting, so I can collect?
Too easy. You're welcome
Ok, so I was going to call you stupid for repeatedly making a claim that people seem to think that live betting has no effect on the odds - when in fact I fully acknowledge that it does, and have made no claim to the contrary. But then I realized that at this point I'm the idiot for repeatedly trying to get that idea through your thick skull, when you either refuse to acknowledge it - or are just trolling at this point.
Do you think you're the only one in the world who knows the secret that UNC and IU were closely ranked in the polls on selection sunday? Do you think there is enough money coming in from people who are clueless to anything other than the seeds to sway the odds to a point that all the "smart money" in the world couldn't bring them back to where they should be? If the answer to either of those is "yes" I can stop trying to educate you now because it's a hopeless task. The lines are set - and reach an equilibrium - based on the merits of the teams... not the seeds! Yes, more people think UNC will win, and they happen to be a higher seed. Gee, maybe the reason why they're a higher seed is because more people (i.e. the committee) thought they were a better team - and not the other way around (that more people think they're a better team because they're a higher seed).
I will grant you that seeding has a slight impact on it - but the quality of the team is the main factor. UNC is the 1 and IU the 5 and the line is UNC -6.5. If IU was the 1 and UNC the 5 (with the same teams and everything) the line for this game would be something like UNC -4.5, so yes - the seeds have a little sway factor, but the public opinion would still be UNC is the better team and should win this game.
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Dude your stupidity regarding bball is surpassed only by your stupidity regarding how vegas establishes odds. You're doing a great job embarrassing the IU fan base though.
Ok - so I had an easy enough time roasting this idea in my above post even if what you said here was true. But now I've gone back and actually looked at the polls. In both the AP and Coaches polls on Selection Sunday UNC was #7 and IU #10 - so first off that's 3 spots different. And second of all - just like your "last 3 years of lottery picks" argument, that's a really convenient time to pick to reference the polls - and doesn't make sense in this argument. The polls on Selection Sunday were voted on and formulated 6 days prior - which was before any of the conference tournaments were played.
IU lost their only game in the BIG tournament - whereas UNC won the ACC tournament. That has a very big impact on where the teams were seeded, and public perception of them, and frankly how good each of them can be assumed to be. The rankings the day following Selection Sunday (in which nothing took place between selection sunday and the new polls) had UNC at #3 and IU at #14 AP #12 Coaches. That's a much bigger difference than you're letting on.
So lets see his confidence in IU Is based on
Uk better than uva (uhhh no)
Big ten better than acc ( uhhh hells no)
IU only one behind unc in the polls (cough)
Vegas odds are based on seedings (wtf?)
"Sketchy toombs, real sketchy"
Uk better than uva (uhhh no)
Big ten better than acc ( uhhh hells no)
IU only one behind unc in the polls (cough)
Vegas odds are based on seedings (wtf?)
"Sketchy toombs, real sketchy"
That's what one poster sees.
You are favored and should be. We present challenges in that we routinely 4, if not 5, guys on the floor who can shoot from 3, are used to playing up tempo, and have success this season against other teams that bring a definite size advantage.
That said, you guys are deeper than any other team, if this gets into a shootout, it favors you. I'd like to see a game in the 70's rather than 80's, and hope we can keep you guys off the offensive glass & force more turnovers than we give up.
We could still play a great game and get beat by you because you have great balance and excellent talent in both the front and back courts.
IU was seeded criminally low because of our non-conference play. The team that lost to Duke is long gone. You guys should be in for a team that can beat you, but probably won't. Neither coach is an X&O savant within the game, so game plan should be a factor. I also see this as being a game of spurts/runs & whoever has the last run likely wins. We've both been better second half teams, with some tendency to get out of the gates slow. Something will give there.
Good luck. It should be a great game and I hope we see some really fun ball regardless of the outcome.
We can all agree on one thing. Go Ducks.
I know there are a lot of (most?) fan bases that hate UNC, hate Kentucky, hate their own school's big rival (I think Pudue and ND for you guys?) etc.....
but I think you'd be hard pressed to find one fan, outside of Duke's own fan base, that root or pull for them against any other school. Its basically universal hatred.
It would be hard to find an IU fan that roots for UK over Duke. We'd definitely pull for Duke in that instance.
Ask Mikey!! I am sure he will show you one!!! Mike where are you??Not too sure what that means but IU is likely to get the W soon?
Go to the IU rivals site and look at your words in the thread about UNC cheats, what you ask is right there boss.
First off, I appreciate the apology, I wanted that because I have tried to be very fair with you, you do not strike me as a lune and I felt we had been having a solid discussion, one in which I would not call you names or be anything but fair to you. So thank you for that personally, I can't speak for my Tar Heel brothers but the only reason I needed the apology was you quoted my words in that reply. So I am good with you and I enjoy the back & forth, I argue with my buds all the time so take no offense if I play hard ball, it is not intended to be offensive toward you.
You ask about the best part o four game, one thing I would caution you on, while Marcus is one of our duo PGs on the floor together, I actually expect Joel Berry to guard Yogi, Joel is more of the lead PG and Marcus is more a 2 guard. But don't be fooled, both are excellent defenders AND both will get time guarding Yogi.
What we tar Heels have been waiting for all year is for Paige's shot to start falling consistently, kid has been mired in a shooting slump all season, he has shown signs as of late of breaking out of it and it could happen at any time. But the coll thing is that we have had to learn to score with less coming from Marcus. Joel Berry is like the best kept secret in the country, that kid is fantastic and has had a fantastic soph season. he is the guy that typically takes the harder defensive assignment on an opposing guard. Only time he doesn't is when there is a size mismatch up problem but even then is surprisingly effective. Size wise Joel matches up great with Yogi so don't be surprised if you come away from that game with a similar level of respect as I do for Joel Berry.
Our back court has been much more effective defensively and that is a real key for us, from there it is about our front court rotations on the defensive end and limiting offensive rebounds. WE have an amazing one 2 punch coming at opposing teams from both the wing position and the power forward slot. Every one knows about Brice but I am telling ya, if Hicks does not get in to deep foul trouble, he is nearly at the same level as a player as Brice. We get a lot of Brice and Hicks together and if neither has more than 1 foul going in to the half, watch out, that ain't good for our opponents.
The problem we have right now in our front court is Meeks, our starting center, he is playing hurt right now and frankly, he is not helping us a ton. But his PT has been down to around 10mins a game as of late. A line up that has worked real well for us is Theo and Justin, our 2 wings in the game together. Theo tends to be the guy that checks the 4, he has a quickness advantage and he is a LONG 6'7". He took Bentyl of Prov and drove him nuts not to mention he is a really solid passer that can finish over the rim, he is not a jump shooter. That collective cuss word you here all the way in to INdiana from the state of NC is UNC fans expression of Theo taking a jump shot...OH CRAP< DON"T DO IT! LOL
Justin jackson, our other 6'7" wing runs the court like a deer on opening day of shot gun season, he is surprising with his ability to put the ball on the floor and finish above the rim or pull up for a floater and if his 3pt shot is dropping, we call that winning margin stuff.
But here is the thing, you guys want to get out and run, you not looking to slow the pace, we down with that. UNless you guys play a solid zone that is extremely active, you will be in our sweet spot. Now I don't know how deep you guys go with quality players but we go a solid 11 deep and the 12th guy is as well pretty good. When you are talking a up and down running game for a full 40mins, depth is HUGE, we can keep quality talent with fresh legs in the game, we come at you in waves of fresh legs. In a wide open pace game, 11 sets of fresh legs tend to beat 8 sets of fresh legs. Our 2 deep at every single floor [position is very talented and for the most part very experienced, that is hard to handle unless you slow the tempo and pack in a zone with length out front.
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