OOTB Carolina Basketball Discussion Thread
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The narrative being pushed on gar-dar about coby not being a pg is just mind boggling. Imagine we were relying on woods at pg. obviously its a team effort but coby’s emergence at pg imo is the biggest factor in unc being a final four contender and acc co champ.
I actually have some thoughts on the Coby situation, but I haven't really had the desire to actually post it on radar. It is weird that it is continuing to be pushed by some people, although I know why they think that way.
What's far more interesting to me is the whole conversation about Nas and the draft. I remember plenty of people being berated about saying people like Maye, Pinson and Meeks were most likely not going to be NBA players. All of them had legit reasons for saying that and it was backed up by scouts. Now, all of a sudden we have a OAD who is an almost consensus top 10 pick. Those same people who were berating people are now the ones saying Nas probably isn't an NBA talent.
What I've noticed, is for the most part, the Radar group you're referring to just don't like our best players as much as the "underdog" guys.
They love Maye cuz he was a walk-on (even though he really wasn't). They love Theo and Meeks because the consensus was that they weren't NBA players. They love Platek, Huffman, Manley etc. cuz they were 3 stars.
It's the same group with the stupid motto "we only want guys who REALLY REALLY want to be Tar Heels" and the stupid "we'll win titles without 5 stars" even though we never have once.
I don't get it at all.
I can understand liking the "underdog" guys the best. My favorite players on UNC teams are mostly underdogs. Kenny is my favorite player on this team. Players like Reyshawn and Jawad have also been my favorites. I have no issue with that line of thinking. The problem is those people being so obviously hypocritical and some of them trying to pull the "real fan" card. I enjoyed turning around the "real fan" issue on them with my list of what a real fan would do. It was a nice mic drop. No one had a reply to that.
I'm not defending the Raider crowd necessarily but why in the world would you not prefer the underdog guys more? I was talking to someone (non-UNC fan) the other day about the nauseating coverage of Zion. And we agreed that it's the Luke Mayes that should be getting this kind of coverage. What's more admirable - (1) being good at basketball because you were born with rare god-given talent and may or may not have to work all that hard to be great or (2) a guy that was kind of cast aside by other big time programs, has worked his ass off to become one of the best players in the country and oh yeah, he's a two time Academic All-American and a 2 time winner of the Skip Prosser award?
For me, it's quite easy to see why more people would appreciate the underdog stories more.
Great post!
Your comments are relevant for Luke vs. Zion.
They also are relevant for UNC vs. Dook as a team, too.
What is the better story? Which team defines what it is to be a team more? To be better coached and developed?
Team A: a group of pretty low recruit rankings, if ranked at all, transfers from other programs, and suffering, persevering through years of investigations....with a coach who has still worked harder than any coach at doing what he can in the uphill recruiting battle caused by the investigations - then somehow piecing together a competing team, all heart and guts, a team that is much more than the sum of its parts, and that has overachieved anybody's expectations - because the coach said and did the right things, and the kids worked their butts off, and meshed although coming from different circumstances, to get the absolute most out of themselves as a team and as individuals.
Team B: (not their fault, but) a group of kids who have been told they are all-everything since junior high, and continue to hear daily that they are the greatest players at their level of all time, though they haven't accomplished anything remarkable yet. Freshmen who have played together a few months and who count on talent alone to out-talent opponents to wins. This team has not performed well under adversity (say, one or two of their load of 5-stars being out with injury or illness). To me this shows little toughness, heart, togetherness. "Coached" by a once-great coach who seems to mostly rely on berating officials, and rely only on his 4 potential NBA players (freshmen all) to carry him through, with no thought of how to develop his bench, or get the most out of his team by developing and meshing all the parts.
I believe most people who haven't somehow bought into the non-stop media hype like Team A because it relates closest to most people's lot in life - or at least what they want. Most probably weren't born with a golden ticket, so they can relate better to a team and individuals (players and coaches) who have had to work harder to get the most out of what they have been given, to succeed. Outside of the Team B's (Dook, maybe UK), most other teams are like Team A (UNC) as well. So fans can relate to team A better. Its just a better "feel good" human achievement story.
Guys. I just went to take a peak at the Auburn board...
Gary is like a normal person when he posts there. It's premium so you could only get his first sentence or two from each post but he's like busting on people jokingly, talking politics and hot women, and two of his posts are either "my bad" or "I had it wrong".
Gary is like a normal person when he posts there. It's premium so you could only get his first sentence or two from each post but he's like busting on people jokingly, talking politics and hot women, and two of his posts are either "my bad" or "I had it wrong".
Apparently he has a bad rep with some of them. They had a thread at one point that was dedicated to making fun of him.Guys. I just went to take a peak at the Auburn board...
Gary is like a normal person when he posts there. It's premium so you could only get his first sentence or two from each post but he's like busting on people jokingly, talking politics and hot women, and two of his posts are either "my bad" or "I had it wrong".
I wish they would have a free promotion over there. I would sign up just to read his interactions with them. Especially the political ones. He's supposed to be more liberal and I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say most Auburn fans aren't. I picture @Terror Beard vs @uncboy10 type arguments.
FTR I do not like being painted as the liberal counterpart to that "guy." lol
So how do you guys feel about the Mueller report and the state of the union?
I haven't seen his scouting report yet and I don't know much about Auburn. Is he a good three point shooter?So how do you guys feel about the Mueller report and the state of the union?
If i’m picking teams and its down to coby vs j berry for pg i’m taking coby every single time. Coby is a game changer, avgs more pts AND assists and will be a lottery pick and start in the nba. Berry is a game manager, damn good one for sure, and undrafted. Its not even close
I think it depends on the makeup of the team. Berry was the perfect PG for the 2017 team. I would have taken him over Coby for that team. This year's team needed someone who could score by creating their own shot, so I would pick Coby.
Someone on Raider might say: "Mueller's stats are understated.... he is an expert at spacing and doesn't dribble too much. Leads the league in blown assists. Would be a bigger part of the Union State game plan, if not for all the conspiracies I can't tell you about."
We got our "easy game" with Washington. It will be nail-biting from here on out. That's how I decided that the 2009 was the best UNC team I ever watched. They totally bulldozed the competition. That NCAA Tournament was relaxing!
2017 took years off of my life! I mean... they're years I won't miss, granted. But, the Oregon game was harder than the Gonzaga game. Arkansas was even worse because I'd paid for the ticket! I was sweatin' it! The dook game was much more relaxed and much more fun to watch!
2017 took years off of my life! I mean... they're years I won't miss, granted. But, the Oregon game was harder than the Gonzaga game. Arkansas was even worse because I'd paid for the ticket! I was sweatin' it! The dook game was much more relaxed and much more fun to watch!
Even 2009 was tense for a while.... I think we were down nearing double digits to LSU in first half.
This team might not have the overall talent that the '09 team had, but it is close to - or more talent than the '17 team. But the matchups all the rest of the way are very tough.
I just really hope we keep the turnovers down, stay out of foul trouble - and most important stay right up on 3 point shooters all game long....don't help, don't assume, hope they are eventually going to miss wide open ones, because they won't. Even if it meant we get blown by for layups occasionally, I'd take the risk of getting beaten that way, vs. them going off for like 15+ 3's.
Not just UNC. That was an all time great college team. They were totally dominate in the tournament.
It's true that we were down, but we ended up thoroughly beating them. Never at any point did I feel like we were going to lose that game.
Here's what we did during that run:
Radford 101-58
LSU 84-70
Zags 98-77
Oklahoma 72-60
Nova 83-69
MSU 89-72
ETA: All of those teams (except Radford) were ranked going into the tournament. We didn't just beat average teams. We destroyed really good teams.
2ETA: LSU #21, Zags #10, OK #7, Nova #11, MSU #8
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I just hope Auburn is cold from 3 on Friday.
And Heels had to beat pretty much the highest possible seed in every game, IIRC.
In 2016, we beat everyone by double-digits leading up to the finals, but got some lower seeds like the Cuse (11 seed?) in the FF.
I was able to attend the Radford and LSU games. Recall that LSU was SEC champ that year, I believe! and we get them as the 8 seed?!
That was the Lawson toe games. He jammed it in practice that week, and didn't play against Radford. But he was a big part of the win against LSU. Danny Green, too, IIRC.
As much as I love that 09 team, over the past few years, I’ve come to believe that 05 was Roy’s best team. Well, maybe 05 wasn’t “better” than 09 but I think 05 beats 09.
Nah. Tyler would pull his out and smack all of them in the head with it as he averaged 20 and 10. 05 might win one in a best of seven though.
Stop it.
Those teams were fairly evenly matched at all positions. Jawad and Marvin are the difference makers at the PF spot.
2009 would probably be 5 point favorites against 2005, and I'd take them to cover.
I agree that they're fairly evenly matched but I think the sheer force of will of Hansbrough and to a lesser extent Lawson are the difference makers.
I just ran the 05 team vs the 09 team through the simulator and it ran 87 times. The 09 team won 54 of the simulated games and the 05 team won 33 of the simulated games. What was interesting was that out of the 33 games the 05 team won, 7 of them were by 20 points or more whereas out of the 54 games the 09 team won, only 1 time did they win by 20 or more. 2 of the games went into overtime.
http://www.ncaagamesim.com/GameSimu...&HomeYear=2005&AwayTeam=NC&AwayYear=2009&hs=1
USA Today ranked the last 25 champions. The 05 team comes in at #2 on their list with the 09 team coming in at # 14.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.us...uke-north-carolina-kentucky-florida-uconn/amp
CBS ranked the best 25 championship teams ever. The 09 team comes in at #25 and the 05 team ranked #23.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...5-national-champs-a-very-ucla-heavy-list/amp/
Fox Sports ranked the last 25 champions from first to worst and in this ranking, the 05 team was ranked as the #1 team of the last 25 years. The 09 team was 9th.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...anking-list-unc-duke-kentucky-033116?amp=true
Athlon too put out a ranking of the champions since 1985. In this ranking it was 05 again ahead of 09 (#9 and #10 respectively).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/athlon...alls-national-champions-1985-through-2018?amp
So all this to say that the two teams are pretty evenly matched although I disagree with @Hark_The_Sound_2010 that 09 would be favored in a hypothetical matchup and the information I’ve provided in this poast would support my belief.
http://www.ncaagamesim.com/GameSimu...&HomeYear=2005&AwayTeam=NC&AwayYear=2009&hs=1
USA Today ranked the last 25 champions. The 05 team comes in at #2 on their list with the 09 team coming in at # 14.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.us...uke-north-carolina-kentucky-florida-uconn/amp
CBS ranked the best 25 championship teams ever. The 09 team comes in at #25 and the 05 team ranked #23.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...5-national-champs-a-very-ucla-heavy-list/amp/
Fox Sports ranked the last 25 champions from first to worst and in this ranking, the 05 team was ranked as the #1 team of the last 25 years. The 09 team was 9th.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...anking-list-unc-duke-kentucky-033116?amp=true
Athlon too put out a ranking of the champions since 1985. In this ranking it was 05 again ahead of 09 (#9 and #10 respectively).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/athlon...alls-national-champions-1985-through-2018?amp
So all this to say that the two teams are pretty evenly matched although I disagree with @Hark_The_Sound_2010 that 09 would be favored in a hypothetical matchup and the information I’ve provided in this poast would support my belief.
I love these debates. These are great debates. What other college team's fans get to have these debates....comparing the three title teams in the last 14 years? Nobody.
I agree that the teams were pretty evenly matched. I think at least in the Final Four, the 2005 team faced tougher opponents. The Illinois team they beat...they had lost 1 game all year I think and were deep and loaded with experienced guys, including very good NBA all-star level guards.
And remember that (like Hans) - nobody had any sort of answer for Sean May. I think he went like 10-11 FGs in the title game and abused Illinois on the inside. And no matter what, Ray Felton would not let them lose. Both were great heart and great talent teams, offensive or defensive stars at all five positions, with some really good guys off the bench.
I was only trying to say that the 2009 tournament with a lot easier on the nerves.
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