Not to mention the Barnes, Marshall, bullock etc groups. Those two classes produced the 12 team who I thought was probably on par with 09. Just got derailed by injuries.
Tony Bradley declaring for the draft and may hire an agent...
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Not to mention the Barnes, Marshall, bullock etc groups. Those two classes produced the 12 team who I thought was probably on par with 09. Just got derailed by injuries.
You're moving the goalposts. Wether you or another poster mentioned that class first is irrelevant. You still used it to bolster your argument-so it doesn't matter that he mentioned them first. It's disingenuous to try and use them because they were highly rated and people transferred-to use that as an argument against having good ranked classes..when every other highly ranked class under Roy turns out aces.
It's intellectually dishonest and you know it. And Henson ended up being an absolute stud here. For you to throw him out there like that as someone who wasn't "much help" right away is meaningless. Joel berry wasn't "much help" right Away either.Our argument is that unc needs studs and horses to win. Henson, once he was moved to the right position, was a game changer.
You're the one who has said multiple times that on paper, this is Roy's worst recruiting class. That doesn't sound like you're very impressed.
No one "expects" them to come in and "average double digits." But if Brooks or Huffman has to start and play major minutes due to Tony leaving, it is possible that one of them does average 10/5, because we will continue to try and get the ball into the post for high percentage shots. Roy is not going to deviate a whole lot from that philosophy. Merely rebounding well will get them a few garbage bucket attempts every game.
So have a little faith in the staff's ability to recruit guys that will fit our program and develop. Enjoy the title and relax, there's plenty of time to worry about next year, next year.
Idk what this even is when people do this. I can only speak for myself, but I have no issue celebrating our championship and relaxing and basking in the glory while at the same time looking towards next year. It's as if some here get insecure that others aren't celebrating enough or are not relaxed just because they are calling things as they are.
I used it to counter his dumbass argument. I don't need to bolster anything... and Joel Berry was FAR from being not much help as a freshman. LMAO. And yes, Henson ended up being a stud here, but ONLY because he stayed around and developed.
Let me put this out there so maybe even you can see it:
NO ONE IS SAYING WE DON'T WANT AND NEED STUD RECRUITS FROM TIME TO TIME. Hopefully we'll start reeling more in. The topic of conversation was about this class. It is nothing to panic about. That simple.
Yep. That was pretty obvious. Unfortunately John had to live it to get that message.
"Maybe even you can understand it". When you're floundering-get personal I guess.
And we are all fans of the same team. Geez, some of the arrogance and childishness is crazy. It's ok to have different opinions.
This, in a nut shell. The championship game is less than 3 weeks past and some seem to be so worried about next year that I fear they can't really appreciate what our staff and team just accomplished. I'm through trying to convince them to stop and smell the roses, enjoy the moment, and have a little faith.
To each, his own.
If you'd go back and read you'd see that Gary was responding to SPECIFIC point being made by another poster. That SPECIFIC point cited a SPECIFIC (2010) freshman class. You have attacked gary at every opportunity since you first got here. Give us a fricken break and take some reading comprehension classes!
"I've attacked Gary"? What in the ... this is so ridiculous a response isn't warranted, I suppose you've been tracking me since I "first got here"? Creepy dude.
I have nothing to say to that. Is "Gary" a special poster who is beyond having his opinions questioned?
As far as your other tirade, I am aware he was responding to another poster. He used the other posters thoughts about that class and turned that around to use as a a counterpoint to having highly ranked classes. Which,as I said, was intellectually dishonest because every other elite class we have had here turned out amazing. And even that class wasn't a loss because it has john Henson.
If that's called "attacking poor Gary" then I think some thicker skin needs to be acquired.
Edit-just for you in fairness I went back and looked. All @carolinablue34 said was "I don't want another season like 2010." He never referenced any recruiting class or anything like that. Gary took that and ran with it and used that statement to go off about how the highly ranked class that year was a flop and how it was proof that those classes don't always work out. So yes, I can read and again, it's intellectually dishonest.
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You'd think we had lost the championship for a second straight year judging by this thread.
It is becoming obvious we are going to have a couple of average years ( last year's class without Bradley is prolly below average for us. Next year's class is average for us.
On the other end we have a coach that comes from an environment of development of players.
I say with our coach it will be hard keeping us out of sweet 16. With our recruits it will be hard making final four, but every four years we will. 2005, 2009, 2016 and 2017.
I just have a really hard time saying that we will be bad when all I see is us winning every couple of years. Even without one-and-done players.
On the other end we have a coach that comes from an environment of development of players.
I say with our coach it will be hard keeping us out of sweet 16. With our recruits it will be hard making final four, but every four years we will. 2005, 2009, 2016 and 2017.
I just have a really hard time saying that we will be bad when all I see is us winning every couple of years. Even without one-and-done players.
Obviously if berry and Bradley come back we will be good next year. That's a totally different argument or whatever though than what some of us are saying. 2018 is already looking good from a recruit perspective, so hopefully next year even if we lose everyone its only one downyear . But-coach has tripled down on 3 very low ranked bigs who will take up spots for at least 3 or probably four years. After next year they will need to be joined by an infusion of some elite front court guys.
Do you know for sure that none of the 3 bigs out of Brooks, Huffman and Manley won't turn out to be any good in college??
I haven't argued that they wouldn't be. If we look objectively at how big men ranked where these guys are have performed under Roy at unc we would conclude that if one of the 3 turned into an acc level full time player we should be happy.
Basically it's uncharted territory- I'm hoping for the best and yet don't have any unrealistic expectations.
As far as I know, we haven't stopped recruiting elite front court guys. And we'd all like to see a couple of them sign with UNC. If these elite bigs are seeing the same thing you're seeing, then they shouldn't be deterred by our 3 very low ranked bigs. So I see no problem.
Roy recruited elite bigs last year, he signed one in Tony. He recruited multiple elite bigs this year, but failed to sign one. He's working harder than ever before on the recruiting trail. What would you suggest he do differently or change?
Roy recruited elite bigs last year, he signed one in Tony. He recruited multiple elite bigs this year, but failed to sign one. He's working harder than ever before on the recruiting trail. What would you suggest he do differently or change?
I don't think he should change anything. He's recruiting all the elite guys etc but they just aren't coming. I've no issue obviously w how Roy recruits. I think he's sort of been forced into taking this class as it stands right now.
It's slightly concerning that we have 3 bigs on board who are most likely 4 year projects. So hopefully he regains the magic so we can land a zeller-wright-Meeks-Johnson type of big soon to go along with them.
Of course he was. No one's arguing that. We just have different opinions as to their potential, much as we have differing opinions on how good Seventh, Brandon, etc... will be. Keep the faith.
Well you said that those three will take up spots for 3-4 years which to me sounds like they wouldn't be productive but just eating a scholarship!
My question for those of you who have differing thoughts on these guys potential is-why? Given where they are ranked, the history of player performance of bigs ranked where they are at unc, and the scouting evaluations of people who've seen them multiple times-why are you sold on their upside? I'd love to be swayed by some actual analasis of their games.
Again, I've made no predictions about what they'll turn out to be here except to go by past precedent which isn't on their sides. So as of now my position is I would be pleasantly surprised if one of them turns into an acc caliber full time big . I still haven't heard anyone give actual reasons why these guys have good potential besides "have some faith".
Again, I've made no predictions about what they'll turn out to be here except to go by past precedent which isn't on their sides. So as of now my position is I would be pleasantly surprised if one of them turns into an acc caliber full time big . I still haven't heard anyone give actual reasons why these guys have good potential besides "have some faith".
Bigs ranked outside the top 100 under Roy:
Desmond Hubert
Jackson Simmons
Luke Maye
So first...we are in uncharted waters by bringing in 3 in the same class being that Roy has had 3 total in 13 years prior.
2nd...anyone want to build a championship team as those 3 above as your primary big men? Hubert and Simmons sat behind Brice and McAdoo, both NBA players. Maye sat behind Hicks and Meeks.
Is this even an argument when the facts are completely one sided?
Desmond Hubert
Jackson Simmons
Luke Maye
So first...we are in uncharted waters by bringing in 3 in the same class being that Roy has had 3 total in 13 years prior.
2nd...anyone want to build a championship team as those 3 above as your primary big men? Hubert and Simmons sat behind Brice and McAdoo, both NBA players. Maye sat behind Hicks and Meeks.
Is this even an argument when the facts are completely one sided?
Faith, you have it or you don't.
I trust the staff, I think they've more than earned it. I can't convince either of you to change your minds. That's fine. Time will tell.
I trust the staff, I think they've more than earned it. I can't convince either of you to change your minds. That's fine. Time will tell.
I don't follow high school basketball close enough to analyze each player... All I know is for various reasons Roy and the staff felt comfortable bringing these 3 guys in this year(4 including Platek) and given his track record I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt as a fan...
Nobody knows what will happen next year or the rest of their careers at UNC but only time will tell... Roy offered higher ranked players but for one reason or another we didn't end up pursuing further or they didn't want to become a Tar Heel... Either way in my opinion their loss not mine and I will continue to support Roy, the staff and the players who are Tarheels.. I certainly don't want Roy to change his recruiting practices or offer a kid who could disturb the team or cause bigger problems just because some guy says he is a 5 star recruit.
I understand these guys aren't ranked as high as past players were and at least for me I am okay with that for the reasons stated above
Nobody knows what will happen next year or the rest of their careers at UNC but only time will tell... Roy offered higher ranked players but for one reason or another we didn't end up pursuing further or they didn't want to become a Tar Heel... Either way in my opinion their loss not mine and I will continue to support Roy, the staff and the players who are Tarheels.. I certainly don't want Roy to change his recruiting practices or offer a kid who could disturb the team or cause bigger problems just because some guy says he is a 5 star recruit.
I understand these guys aren't ranked as high as past players were and at least for me I am okay with that for the reasons stated above
Ok. Just so we are clear your basing your entire thought on these 3 having good potential or upside on..faith. This is an impossible thing to even debate with or for so theres no reason for you to engage in the conversation further, as "faith" is an unproveable thing. I was hoping for some thoughts on their games, athleticism, shooting ability. Its very hard to have a reasonable discussion with people who fall back on the faith thing. Roy hasnt ever had 3 bigs in one class ranked this lowly, hes only had 3 over the last 6 years. So saying to take it on faith is disingenuous as well.
Im more of the opinion that Roys hand was forced and he is taking what he can get with kids who will sign here. I say this because hes never recruited this way before intentionally, he struck out on all the top guys on the board and had to look for other options. I guess you could say he feels comfortable with them, but he sort of has to.
Please...don't try to save all of your bad arguments by going "I trust the staff" and trying to throw that in our faces.
We trust the staff also. You think Roy wanted this class as his first option? We recruited and missed on Bamba, Tilmon, Mitchell Robinson, Vanderbilt, Washington. I trust that the staff wanted all those guys. If we had 1-2 of them we wouldn't be as concerned with a Tony Bradley-less front line next season.
We trust the staff also. You think Roy wanted this class as his first option? We recruited and missed on Bamba, Tilmon, Mitchell Robinson, Vanderbilt, Washington. I trust that the staff wanted all those guys. If we had 1-2 of them we wouldn't be as concerned with a Tony Bradley-less front line next season.
That's a pretty low standard in a year when we have 6 scholly's open.
I'm not saying that stars are everything or that every highly touted recruit we get will pan out. But are you forgetting that our most recent championship teams all had top 20 talent on them? And these three star recruits you're so high about didn't even see the bench.
Were you complaining when we had Barnes, Zeller, Marshall, Henson, McAdoo, bullock and PJ? None of whom were ranked below 30?
No, at this point we aren't attracting the best of the best right now, so people here are trying to make up a bunch of excuses as to why that is or overhype the people coming in.
Roy wouldn't even be sniffing these people 5 years ago. He's taking what he can get.
God forbid we all just cool our jets and see what Roy & Company can do with them. Remind me again what K did with that outstanding Class they just had.
All this arguing is pretty stupid until we actually see what we got. jmhho
All this arguing is pretty stupid until we actually see what we got. jmhho
I don't think we have any choice , jet cooling or otherwise.
It's the offseason ; it's what we do and I've been home sick all weekend. You do watch ESPN , FoxSports etc. right? It's what everybody does now.
What'd he do with them in 2015? Or Cal in 2012?
So because K struggled with one top class we should stop trying to get one ourselves? That logic makes absolute zero sense to me.
It's the offseason, what else are we supposed to do but debate about next season? I'm sure the folks over at Rivals are happy we occupy ourselves with stuff like this and not just shut it down after the first week in April.
Good gosh! Nobody said to stop trying but when we don't we roll with what we got.
Y'all carry on, I'm going fishing.
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