OOTB Carolina Basketball Discussion Thread
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Good game for the Heels; especially the first 30 minutes or so before they lost focus. Glad to see they didn't let Sunday's game cost them another loss.
Someone else mentioned that fatigue could've contributed to Sunday's poor effort. Seems valid. Or maybe it was just the refs...?
Someone else mentioned that fatigue could've contributed to Sunday's poor effort. Seems valid. Or maybe it was just the refs...?
Roy didn't seem too pleased on the sideline with Jalek's drive and dish to Huffman in the final seconds tonight either.
Jalek Felton has played terrible on both ends and has made questionable plays repeatedly. That’s why he’s not playing. He’s careless with the ball, makes poor decisions, can’t hit the broad side of a barn and hasn’t adjusted at all to the speed of the college game. Seventh, Platek, BRob and pretty much everyone else is offering more. He’s not deserving of any more minutes and if we’re being honest, the ones he’s getting might be better spent on someone else.
https://northcarolina.forums.rivals.com/threads/getting-sick-of-espn.58120/
It's Premium, but peep the title. Dude went on a Pack Pride esque tinfoil rant about ESPN (dSPN) intentionally ignoring UNC hoops and all this crap.
Strangely the stat sheet wasn't torn up tonight. Weird. Good win for UNC, the ACC really drug their balls all over the big 10. Love it.
I'm eager to see the MSU/Notre Dame game now. UNC definitely bounced back in a big way. I'm curious to see how the Irish fare against the Spartans.
I admit that I was pulling for Indiana to win. I thought it might happen, too.
I admit that I was pulling for Indiana to win. I thought it might happen, too.
MSU wins tonight and I don't think it will be close. Indiana played Duke very tough in a very tough environment but this Duke team tends to buckle down in the last 5 minutes of games, and they did that again last night.
I want your honest opinion on this @tw3301. How do you feel about the new duke? Let me say that Bagley is a monster and Duval and Carter are really good too. But Bagley is the reason duke will win this year. I would say that as of right now, y'all are the odds on favorite to win it all. But how do you feel about that? I grew up hating duke but respecting K and the culture that he created within the program. It was a culture of upperclassmen leadership, intense defense and guys that had bought into the duke way. As much as I hated Laettner and Hurley, they were duke. They played for duke. What mattered most to those guys was the duke program and winning with the culture that K had created. All of that is gone. Bagley, Carter and Duval couldn't care less about duke. I probably know more about the duke program than they do. It's become AAU ball at the college level. I'm sure that's exactly how they see it. And K, ...I don't know what's happened to him. Why would he allow such a program transformation to occur? I always thought of him as a principled man; a man of conviction. But it appears that he's willing to sell out for a chance at another championship. duke fans may try to claim that he's "adapting". But he's not adapting strategically; he's adjusted culturally. And that's not something I thought I'd ever see. For better or for worse, Roy is who he is. If he can't win doing it his way, he'd rather not win at all. I personally love that about him.
Anyway, I'd like to read your thoughts on the new duke. TIA
A buddy of mine and I were saying the same thing last night. He hadn't watched Duke before last night, this season. And, he was like "Where's everyone? Who are these people? I see the Tripper, but everyone else is new!" And, it's been that way for about 5 years or so now, almost. Singler, Scheyer, Nolan Smith, Plumlee's, Ryan Kelly, Seth Curry... all a thing of the past (and, I used recent players on purpose). Ever since the OAD championship team, Duke is like a blur of OAD's who never developed into an identity to dislike. It's bad for the rivalry.
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It would be interesting to see if any of Giles, Tatum, Rivers, Ingram, Okafor, Jones , ect. ever show up at any Dook events like former Heels do.
And for the record, I feel this program transformation that K has allowed will really hurt duke moving forward. I don't think K cares though. In fact, he'll be happy that duke will look lost without him. But he's diluted the duke name. duke is not duke anymore. They're a cultureless program now and K will leave with it like that. Kids go to duke to play for K and to play with their AAU buddies; not to play for duke. If he had retired 5-7 years ago, he would have left with duke being the old duke - a program with a strong culture of discipline, leadership, togetherness, intensity, etc. And the next guy that came in could continue to recruit on those coattails. But now he'll leave and who the hell will want to play for duke after K is gone?
I love Roy. Love the way he does things. I wouldn't want anyone else in charge. However, I could adjust pretty easily I think. I think there would still be enough guys hanging around for a few years to follow that I could enjoy some new young players to pull for each year.
Good, I mean am I supposed to feel bad about being the odds on favorite to win it all?
Bagley, Carter, and Duval couldn't care less about Duke is your opinion, I don't really understand where you're getting that unless you're saying all OAD's don't care about their school, team, or coach at all which IMO doesn't make sense. Not every OAD is Ben Simmons.
Again this seems to be more of your bias against OAD players. I'm not sure how K has sold out, he has always gone after the most talented players (same guys Roy is going after, despite your thinking he's just doing it for show), the difference now is that they don't stay for more than a year. You guys have Little coming in next year who will be OAD if he is eligible (0 and done if he isn't) and are pursuing Zion who is also OAD. Is that Roy selling out or changing the culture of the program? I'm sure the response will be something like "1 or 2 is ok but we will never be a revolving door of OAD kids" and that's fine but it's easier said than done. once you start getting these kids there's more turnover and thus more spots to fill and you become attractive to the most talented players in each class... when that happens it's very hard to say, "Hey RJ Barrett, sorry we don't need your services."
As for my opinion on the "new Duke" I'd say it's more of my opinion on college basketball as a whole. I'm not a fan of OAD, would love for players to stay more than a year but that's not up to me. I think after last year K has learned he needs more 4 year players and has done a good job of getting guys that will develop and stick around (Delaurier, Goldwire, O'Connell, Tucker, etc.) and has been playing a deeper bench than normal. The one thing I hate about OAD era and AAU crap is that they no longer teach team defense so these kids come in with ridiculous offensive skills and no clue how to defend. That is my biggest pet peeve about the "new Duke."
I don't normally type out Dsouthr length posts so if i missed a question or went off the rails somewhere I apologize.
I have to admit, there’s a real shortage of guys to hate on duke lately. Trip is the most obvious. But Okafor, Ingram, Winslow, Parker, Tatum, Giles, Bagley, etc. there’s nothing about them that really makes your blood boil. Hell, I didn’t even hate Luke Kennard.
They do, I know several were at the K academy either this year or last and Justise Winslow held a charity event for Houston's hurricane relief at Cameron this year. Okafor actually came back after his rookie season for classes which shocked me.
I can barely remember what they look like. Ingram is the easiest.
It's like that for every team now. Back in the day, I could name the entire roster for every ACC team, easily. Now, outside of UNC and maybe a select few other players, I don't know who anyone is anymore. It used to be "Oh shit, we gotta take on freaking Randolph Childress tonight," and now it's just "Who the hell am I watching and why is he lighting us up?"
Okafor was kind of a dink, but I agree with the rest. I currently cheer on Kyrie and Tatum as Celtics - but thats not too hard cuz Kyrie never even played an ACC game for Duke and the one year Tatum was there UNC won the national championship.
I don't even associate Kyrie with Duke at all. I even have to take a second to wrap my mind around it every time someone mentions Kyrie with Duke. The dude played like four games there or something.
@tw3301 , I appreciate the answer. I'll respond point by point.
Of course not. I guess my initial question was worded poorly.
I guess time will tell what their level of involvement with the duke program will be. And you're undoubtedly correct in assuming some of my bias against OAD players is showing. But my bias is at least logical thought. You can't be as invested in something after 8 months as you are after 3-4 years. You just can't. Now whether or not that's a bad thing is debatable but my logic is sound.
K hasn't always "just gone after the best players" and neither has Roy. They used to (and Roy still does) go after guys that fit the mold of their respective programs. But what is the mold of the duke program now. If someone asked you to sum up the duke basketball program culture in one or two sentences, how would you answer that?
I disagree about Little. You and I have a bet on that so I guess we'll see. Felton was also thought to be OAD by some and I wonder what you think about that. Maybe Zion comes and is OAD and maybe he doesn't. I doubt he does and if he doesn't, I think a large reason why he won't is because he knows Roy's style. He knows our program culture isn't conducive to being OAD. So no, Roy isn't selling out. If Zion does play for us, Roy will still look to his upperclassmen for leadership and command of the team. He'll still only play Zion if he gets after defensively. Zion will still carry the upperclassmen's bags on road trips and it would be unlikely he'll show up at the table for a post-game press conference. Because Roy believes it's less about him and more about the guys that have put in 3-4 years of work for whatever that team achieves.
I do get your point about turnover which is why I'm so afraid of any OADs coming to Carolina.
I know it's not up to you. And I don't see a lot of crowing from you when duke gets another commitment from a bona fide OAD player. But much of the duke fan base has become like UK - the season just started and there's more focus on "who's coming next" than what you currently have.
I agree that K learned a little about having 4 year players mixed in and the guys you named are evidence of that. I haven't watched a ton of duke this year but I disagree about playing a deeper bench. If that is indeed the case, I bet it won't be a month from now and certainly not down the stretch.
On your last point, yes, the defense played in AAU ball is bad. And that's what I was alluding to above when I said K used to recruit guys that fit the duke program. Years ago, if you didn't play defense, you didn't play for K. He certainly isn't of that thought any longer.
Look, if the shoe was on the other foot, I don't know if I'd be any different than duke fans are about this. But as it stands, I do relish the opportunity to take a shot a K for what I see as him chasing wins/championships by forsaking what he stood for all through the years. And I do prefer watching guys grow up in our program and find it far more satisfying when we achieve with guys that have been through more than what one season offers.
Of course not. I guess my initial question was worded poorly.
I guess time will tell what their level of involvement with the duke program will be. And you're undoubtedly correct in assuming some of my bias against OAD players is showing. But my bias is at least logical thought. You can't be as invested in something after 8 months as you are after 3-4 years. You just can't. Now whether or not that's a bad thing is debatable but my logic is sound.
K hasn't always "just gone after the best players" and neither has Roy. They used to (and Roy still does) go after guys that fit the mold of their respective programs. But what is the mold of the duke program now. If someone asked you to sum up the duke basketball program culture in one or two sentences, how would you answer that?
I disagree about Little. You and I have a bet on that so I guess we'll see. Felton was also thought to be OAD by some and I wonder what you think about that. Maybe Zion comes and is OAD and maybe he doesn't. I doubt he does and if he doesn't, I think a large reason why he won't is because he knows Roy's style. He knows our program culture isn't conducive to being OAD. So no, Roy isn't selling out. If Zion does play for us, Roy will still look to his upperclassmen for leadership and command of the team. He'll still only play Zion if he gets after defensively. Zion will still carry the upperclassmen's bags on road trips and it would be unlikely he'll show up at the table for a post-game press conference. Because Roy believes it's less about him and more about the guys that have put in 3-4 years of work for whatever that team achieves.
I do get your point about turnover which is why I'm so afraid of any OADs coming to Carolina.
I know it's not up to you. And I don't see a lot of crowing from you when duke gets another commitment from a bona fide OAD player. But much of the duke fan base has become like UK - the season just started and there's more focus on "who's coming next" than what you currently have.
I agree that K learned a little about having 4 year players mixed in and the guys you named are evidence of that. I haven't watched a ton of duke this year but I disagree about playing a deeper bench. If that is indeed the case, I bet it won't be a month from now and certainly not down the stretch.
On your last point, yes, the defense played in AAU ball is bad. And that's what I was alluding to above when I said K used to recruit guys that fit the duke program. Years ago, if you didn't play defense, you didn't play for K. He certainly isn't of that thought any longer.
Look, if the shoe was on the other foot, I don't know if I'd be any different than duke fans are about this. But as it stands, I do relish the opportunity to take a shot a K for what I see as him chasing wins/championships by forsaking what he stood for all through the years. And I do prefer watching guys grow up in our program and find it far more satisfying when we achieve with guys that have been through more than what one season offers.
I'm the same way, I was a student at UNC when Kyrie was at Duke and it's still something that doesn't immediately register when I see him in the NBA, not the way it does with other Duke guys. The only one and done for them that I really hated was Rivers
Kyrie believes the earth is flat, so I hope Duke's academics aren't affected.
I don't associate Kyrie with duke either until he starts talking about the Earth being flat. Then he's 100% duke to me.
Even before he hit that shot (which I unfortunately saw in person) I did not care for that guy. That’s still the only “highlight” in his career, which would be over if his dad wasn’t his coach
Yeah, actually that’s the only OAD that comes to mind that went to duke that I didn’t like. Kid was a ball hog and I’ve heard more than one duke fan talk about how disruptive to the team chemistry he was during that year.
I’m more of a fan of the Lehigh-light he had about a month or so later
Yeah I couldn't stand Austin Rivers and neither could Seth Curry. The team the following year was so much better without Rivers. Still hit the shot that made me jump off a bar stool onto a floor that had recently been mopped and about made me do the splits.
You guys had no business beating us that year. The smackdown we laid out in Cameron was evidence of that. Which made the first game that much more painful. But I'll give you this much, K does a much better job pulling out those close ones than Roy. I can think of 5 different games this decade we should have beaten you where you guys just closed it out at the end.
That's one of my few gripes with Roy, it just doesn't seem like he wants to beat Duke as much as K wants to beat Carolina.
We're everybody's Super Bowl, including duke.
Wouldn’t that apply to duke more than it would to us? People hate them more intensely than they do us.
If you put up photos of their ugly mugs, I could only recognize vanilla whip. I literally watch one dook game per season.
So do you watch the one at the Dean Dome or the one at Hansbrough Indoor Stadium?
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