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OOTB Carolina Basketball Discussion Thread

gunslingerdick said:
What is that information telling us? I don't think much. There are too many variables - who do they play next, where do they play next, what about the final game of the reg season - do we measure the ACC tournament differently, etc.
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You're right, there are a lot of variables that I didn't necessarily factor in. It was just sort of curiosity on my part when the issue was raised and I thought it would be interesting to see how many games following were close vs. just W-L since Duke and UNC both win far more than they lose. For the record, I measured ACC/NCAA tournament wins equal to regular season in the sense that if that was the next game on the schedule it counted the same
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
Your approach isn't an approach. You just look at what happens and then rationalize a way to spin it so that it looks/feels good. .
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That is 100% accurate.


TarHeelNation11 said:
Carolina is a premier, shortlist, blue blood basketball powerhouse. My lofty expectations aren't out of bounds here.
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I could contend that your approach isn't an approach - it's just a reason to complain about not meeting some lofty (possibly unrealistic) standards.

The bottom line is this: neither you nor I have any say so in how the program is run and what standards are in place. So you can be like me and rationalize it to make yourself feel good about our successes, or you can be like you and look at it as the glass half empty. It's a choice. I'm content with mine.
 
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Just for reference, over that same 10 year time frame, Duke's average margin of victory is +12.4 PPG, so I do think there is some evidence that the game following ours has a bit of a hangover effect. Admittedly, I didn't crunch every single aspect such as home and away, strength of opponent, or what have you, so these findings could be flawed. Just using the raw data as to how those games finished on the scoreboard
 
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gunslingerdick said:
The bottom line is this: neither you nor I have any say so in how the program is run and what standards are in place. So you can be like me and rationalize it to make yourself feel good about our successes, or you can be like you and look at it as the glass half empty. It's a choice. I'm content with mine.
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Thank you for typing all this so I don't have to.
 
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Woah, I had no clue I had no say in how the program is run. Thank you for providing me with that revelation. I thought message boards were a place to provide opinions/POVs/venting.

My bad. Please advise on company line moving forward so I can toe it.
 
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I am kind of pulling a @coryfly because I agree with both sides of this argument. I totally understand where @TarHeelNation11 is coming from, postseason success and success in a rivalry are not and should not be mutually exclusive. I also fully understand @gunslingerdick's side because if I had to choose, I'd choose postseason success 100 times out of 100. However, I'm greedy and want both :D

With that said, I really want to beat Duke, but if we don't, I can at least say "Well, we've made the last 2 title games, so we're doing something right."
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
Woah, I had no clue I had no say in how the program is run. Thank you for providing me with that revelation. I thought message boards were a place to provide opinions/POVs/venting.

My bad. Please advise on company line moving forward so I can toe it.
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heelmanwilm said:
I honestly cant remember the last dook game where unc even matched their intensity let along exceeded it. For whatever reason they have played at peak level against us for what seems like ten games in a row. (Then of course they will mail it in the next game) If we do win its cause we played the best game of the season. I’d love to see their record in games following playing us.
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I’ll give you one. The February 2014 game in Chapel Hill that was postponed because of the snow. Dook was ranked Number 5 in the country and we had been up and down due to a variety of factors. Anyway, I was there and the atmosphere was electric and, as I remember, we hustled our asses off and won. Last year’s game in CH was pretty good too. I will concede, however, that there have been a lot of dook games in recent years that we did not meet their intensity, particularly the games away from CH.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
Woah, I had no clue I had no say in how the program is run. Thank you for providing me with that revelation. I thought message boards were a place to provide opinions/POVs/venting.

My bad. Please advise on company line moving forward so I can toe it.
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I was going to give you a like for this, but then I remembered you are the same guy who said we shouldn't talk about tournament resumes even though we were just providing opinions/POVs/venting on the subject.
 
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tarheel0910 said:
I was going to give you a like for this, but then I remembered you are the same guy who said we shouldn't talk about tournament resumes even though we were just providing opinions/POVs/venting on the subject.
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You have caught me in my own trap. Well played.

ETA: I will say, though, that the Moo vs. UNC resume argument was silly because both teams are going to lose more. But still, you got me.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
Your approach isn't an approach. You just look at what happens and then rationalize a way to spin it so that it looks/feels good. Do I want to give away our national titles? No, of course not. And yes, I understand Roy's method of growing as the season goes on, not getting hung up on individual games. However, the Duke games are two games out of the year. It's possible to win those games and advance in the post-season.

Carolina is a premier, shortlist, blue blood basketball powerhouse. My lofty expectations aren't out of bounds here.
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A f**king men
 
Why is it that only a few of us seem to be not okay with getting owned in head to head matchups against duke? Have we all forgotten we hate the bastards? Did some of you forget we used to own them as recently as 2009?
 
It bothers me ever so slightly. I’m worked up as anybody here during a Duke game. I can swear to that. But after we lose I brush it off bcI know we own the post season and that’s more important to me. Just doesn’t bother me much anymore.
 
Yeah, I certainly don't want to lose to Duke. I was saying if I had a choice, it would be postseason success, but since I don't believe they are mutually exclusive, I damn sure want to win this game.

Having said that, I buy a little bit the idea that the one and done rule has made it harder to hate Duke the way I used to in the sense that a lot of their most important guys aren't there long enough to really hate. Like I haven't seen Bagley do anything that just gets under my skin, and by the time I potentially see him do that, he's gone. The only guys in recent memory who made a big impact in terms of fan hatred as freshmen were Rivers and Henderson (who of course stuck around a couple more years, but had he bolted after one, we'd still remember "the victim"). So yeah, I hate Allen and K but the other guys are just sort of there. I similarly hate Calipari but not really any of the individual players except maybe Knox? And even then it's just sort of mild. I still want to win this game, but it's not the same as when you really cultivated hatred for the guys there because you saw them do those little things that just bugged you for 3-4 years vs. 3-4 months.
 
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carolinablue34 said:
Why is it that only a few of us seem to be not okay with getting owned in head to head matchups against duke? Have we all forgotten we hate the bastards? Did some of you forget we used to own them as recently as 2009?
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Oh, I can’t stand them and the fact that we’ve had the short end of things recently. I’ve been around a long time though and I keep thinking (hoping) we’ll turn it back around. Their recruiting prowess lately is a smh thing, too, that defies logical explanation. You youngun’s just have to remember that there have been times when we owned them too.
 
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heelz2345 said:
Yeah, I certainly don't want to lose to Duke. I was saying if I had a choice, it would be postseason success, but since I don't believe they are mutually exclusive, I damn sure want to win this game.

Having said that, I buy a little bit the idea that the one and done rule has made it harder to hate Duke the way I used to in the sense that a lot of their most important guys aren't there long enough to really hate. Like I haven't seen Bagley do anything that just gets under my skin, and by the time I potentially see him do that, he's gone. The only guys in recent memory who made a big impact in terms of fan hatred as freshmen were Rivers and Henderson (who of course stuck around a couple more years, but had he bolted after one, we'd still remember "the victim"). So yeah, I hate Allen and K but the other guys are just sort of there. I similarly hate Calipari but not really any of the individual players except maybe Knox? And even then it's just sort of mild. I still want to win this game, but it's not the same as when you really cultivated hatred for the guys there because you saw them do those little things that just bugged you for 3-4 years vs. 3-4 months.
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I just hate the program. I've never really hated specific Duke players. But what you're describing is why college basketball is drastically losing its market share in terms of what gets talked about on radio/TV. There's nothing the casual sports fans can grab on to when it comes to college except for individual coaches and individual programs.

Because of OAD, there is no Deshaun Watson, J.T. Barrett, Leonard Fournette, Baker Mayfield, etc. etc. Guys that become household names because they stay for 3-4-5 years. The existence of star power helps college football because casual sports fans and sports talk people can use that to discuss college football on TV/radio. College basketball absolutely had that, as recently as 2008 or so. But that is gone. It really hinders how college basketball can intentionally and unintentionally market itself. Really hurts growing the popularity of the sport. You can only sell coaches and programs (not individual players) in college basketball, yet basketball is the sport where individual star power is the most important part to bringing in an audience. It sucks.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
I just hate the program. I've never really hated specific Duke players. But what you're describing is why college basketball is drastically losing its market share in terms of what gets talked about on radio/TV. There's nothing the casual sports fans can grab on to when it comes to college except for individual coaches and individual programs.

Because of OAD, there is no Deshaun Watson, J.T. Barrett, Leonard Fournette, Baker Mayfield, etc. etc. Guys that become household names because they stay for 3-4-5 years. College basketball absolutely had that, as recently as 2008 or so. But that is gone. It really hinders how college basketball can intentionally and unintentionally market itself. Really hurts growing the popularity of the sport.
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Yeah, I do think it stretches beyond this rivalry and I'm not saying I don't hate the program, but I also typically only watch them play against us, so most of my feelings on the players come out in those games and I just think that's made it harder for me personally to get worked up the same way for the games as I used to. Like knowing we were gonna face Greg Paulus got me worked up because I despised that twerp. Same with Jon Scheyer or Henderson or Redick or whoever, but those guys also had other guys that I would be like "oh yeah, I hate that guy too" so for me now it's pretty much just Allen and then I'm like "And I guess I hate Jayson Tatum? Oh, Amile Jefferson is still there somehow?" It's not like it was for me with Plumlees or Seth Curry or Singler.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
Woah, I had no clue I had no say in how the program is run. Thank you for providing me with that revelation. I thought message boards were a place to provide opinions/POVs/venting.

My bad. Please advise on company line moving forward so I can toe it.
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Actually, your services are no longer needed at our company. Get your shit and take a hike.
 
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