I think one board with these chuckleheads in enough. If Radar became OOTB part 2 a lot of heads would explode.
OOTB Carolina Basketball Discussion Thread
- Thread starter carolinablue34
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I think one board with these chuckleheads in enough. If Radar became OOTB part 2 a lot of heads would explode.
The only other person I've ever heard use this word(?) is my boss. He's from Pennsylvania must be a northern thing.
It seems to me those youngins' are tearing up the geezers over there.
Yeah, plus every once in awhile, GSD is good for a whine-fest over there where he depends a point tooth and nail.
Oh, sarcasm and humor show up on there from time to time but a 
is generally necessary in order for it not to be misconstrued. And that's a shame. Message board bantering is taken too seriously by too many. I'm deadly serious.
is generally necessary in order for it not to be misconstrued. And that's a shame. Message board bantering is taken too seriously by too many. I'm deadly serious.
I do realize Rose cherry picked his dates to prove a point, but it's just as valid as the graphic itself. Do we just remain content if UNC stays at the top of that graphic for a few years more? So its ok if the Gonzagas, Baylors, FSUs, UVAs, etc. win titles while we don't, as long as its not the blue bloods and semi blue bloods that were on that list?
That's like back in the days right before Cal at UK. They would tout their most wins in history, and second most titles, etc. But anyone with a brain could see that they were floundering. I'm not saying we're at that stage - but the point is to correct it before we get there.
That's like back in the days right before Cal at UK. They would tout their most wins in history, and second most titles, etc. But anyone with a brain could see that they were floundering. I'm not saying we're at that stage - but the point is to correct it before we get there.
I hate that I read that whole thread this morning. It's a stupid argument. I don't think anyone is advocating that we fill our entire roster with OADs (assuming we even could). We simply need to sprinkle in a few recruits of that caliber -- Marvin Williams, Brandan Wright, Harrison Barnes -- with our other recruits to remain among the blue bloods of college basketball.
What bothers me is that some people are giving Roy & Co. no credit for talent development. They're acting like UNC is going to fall off the face of the earth because -- for example -- Seventh Woods isn't the second coming of Joel Berry. Well JBII wasn't exactly the second coming of Marcus Paige in his freshman season, either.
Agreed.
Here is something I would dare not say on radar, how much development is he responsible for? People like to point to Brice and Meeks, but they were already top level talents. I'm not saying he hasn't done anything, but it seems like some people act like he can take a nobody and turn them into an all American. I don't think many coaches can pull that off, at least not at a high rate. Our front court is going to consist of Bradley, Maye and a bunch of three star guys that will more than likely have to play major minutes. I'm not sold on the fact that he or any coach can develop someone like that in a short time period like we will need to happen. If we had some depth and experience it wouldn't matter, but that's not the case.
You've lost your damn mind if you don't think Brice's game improved exponentially while at UNC. But being fair, you're right that Roy can't turn anyone into a star. I think the improvement of Meeks, Hicks, and Britt has been marginal, just to name a few.
Agreed. I love Roy, I really do, but he ain't taking 3***s and turning them into studs, like Fedora did with Switzer.
He's taking 5*****s like John Henson, and getting them to realize their potential by year 3 or 4. Is it possible that Roy's system simply "delays" these guys' talent making itself known, rather than the staff developing these guys? I'm not sure. I don't know enough about basketball to examine that. I think it is important to note, for argument's sake, that these guys are all studs (4- and 5-stars). It's not like we're taking cast-offs and turning them into NBA ballers.
And BTW, too many folks on Radar take offense to the statement "Roy needs great talent to be successful." This ain't an insult. So he needs elite recruits to be successful. So what? Most coaches do. Do you think Saban would be as successful without all that talent? Hell no. There's very few coaches out there who can take 3***s and turn it into a championship-caliber team.
And there is the concern. Those were high level recruits and they haven't had significant improvement. The class that is coming in would normally be expected to contribute 3-4 years down the road. What we are going to need Roy to do is to take a Joel James type of recruit and have him ready to play major minutes on day one. The chances of that happening are slim. I don't want it to seem like I'm picking on Roy though. I don't think any coach could do something like that at a high rate, if at all.
The issue is that they use examples of lower ranked players that have performed well for us in the past. Well sure, I'm not surprised that on some of our better teams, we had lower ranked players that happened to do a good job in a role when they had stud players elsewhere on the team. Like ya, Luke does some good things for us when he's the fourth option on the court because we have JJ, JB, and Meeks out there. He's not going to be able to put up the same numbers if he's our starting PF and unfortunately one of the better players on the team.
We haven't noticed the full brunt of the bad recruiting classes, because we're fortunate that we have some pretty solid pieces on the team from a class that we really hit on. Once they're not there to save the day anymore, we'll see just how good a team of Mayes and Plateks can really be.
We haven't noticed the full brunt of the bad recruiting classes, because we're fortunate that we have some pretty solid pieces on the team from a class that we really hit on. Once they're not there to save the day anymore, we'll see just how good a team of Mayes and Plateks can really be.
After the stats of the 800th win having just been emphasized and made clear... is it really necessary to see the glass as, not only half-empty- but having a hole in the bottom?
I'm certain that next year's team is anywhere near the potency of this one. But, I was the same way after 2009 and 2012.
I'm certain that next year's team is anywhere near the potency of this one. But, I was the same way after 2009 and 2012.
You are talking about two different things. The current discussion is about recruiting, not what is happening this year. You can actually separate the two. I guess you could say the glass is half full because three star recruits want to come here, but that's kind of ignoring the potential problem. It's kind of like saying don't worry about what Trump might do because Obama is in office.
Nobody is saying that what Roy Williams has done in his career is anything short of amazing. He's done an incredible job coaching, and has rightly gotten Hall of Fame recognition to go along with that.
The thing some are pointing out is that all that greatness, all those wins, came with good players and a solid core of talent. Assuming that past successes will continue when the inputs are drastically worse, isn't seeing the bigger picture. Would the 2009 team have won it all if you replaced Hansbrough (a 5 star recruit) with Luke Maye? Doubtful. And that's essentially what we're doing moving forward.
Really, really good poast. This encapsulates our side of the full argument.
Saw it and I liked it even though I didn't like it.
Is that what it's like?
I realize the "stars" are not as high as you'd like, I guess. If Roy's system absolutely requires the best in the country- with the most "stars" by their name- to be productive, then it's going to subside. If the kids don't want to come to Carolina, and prefer UK or dook, or wherever, then that's what's going to happen for awhile. I'm just not as panicked about it.
This year's senior class had lots of stars by their name in high school and they aren't really showing that same level of skill and prowess. Meeks is vital, but he's not Brice Johnson or Tyler Zeller, or Hansbrough. The stars don't always equal stars.
Also bigs take longer to develop than guards. I mean look at how poorly a lot of 4 and 5 star kids perform early in their careers compared to their junior and senior years. Jeter was no prize his freshman year, Bolden has looked like garbage, Jefferson who is Duke's best big man had 0 offensive abilities through his junior year but when healthy (**** my life) has averaged a double double this year. Bringing in 3 star guys and expecting them to play major minutes year 1 is risky at best.
Again, that's unprovable. So when something is unprovable, you go with a "gut feeling". I'm choosing for my gut feeling to be one of faith in a man that is at the helm. Faith that he can make chicken salad out of chicken shit (maybe harsh but you get the point). Others are choosing to see worst case scenario. And considering none of us have any control over it, it's odd to me that someone would choose the pessimistic route when it does no good to do so. But whatever, I'm tired of talking about it.
I'm not panicked about it. It's ok to have a conversation about future events without panicking about it. I mean, I've got no problem letting you bitch about next years defense even though we don't know what will happen.
No they don't guarantee anything, but the chances of a 5 star recruit being able to contribute from day one are probably better than a 3 star recruit being able to contribute from day one.
Probably... yeah.I'm not panicked about it. It's ok to have a conversation about future events without panicking about it. I mean, I've got no problem letting you bitch about next years defense even though we don't know what will happen.
No they don't guarantee anything, but the chances of a 5 star recruit being able to contribute from day one are probably better than a 3 star recruit being able to contribute from day one.
The football program's stability and potential is a totally different beast from the basketball program.
I think he should get a lot of credit for both Brice. I think coaches generally get too much credit for development in general though. Where Roy's philosophy pays off is simply by playing guys a lot, which helps. I just think with Brice a lot of the credit goes to both the player and the coach though.
I agree with the part about him not turning Huffman or Manley into great players next year though. No one could. They are more along the Joel James line, maybe Deon Thompson at best (and won't be either next year). As I said on Radar, next year could be tough, which is ok because I expect it to be. I do think it is more of a one year deal though.
Same here. I guess my problem is people running with the assumption that one year of recruiting is the new normal while ignoring the hundred years that preceded it. Hell, we already have two 4-stars signed for 2018. Just so much negativity and worst case scenario banter.
Yeah, I agree. While there is no doubt some of this mess has impacted recruiting it is odd it has only primarily impacted the frontcourt. We have some really good players committed in the backcourt. I think we will add some good big guys soon, just not for next year.
Does Melo Tremble remind anybody of Joel Berry? Games are similar and I'll be damned if they don't look the same. (Save the racist jokes please)
but how "articulate" are they? (doh!)
His argument seems to be that we are failing and everything is Roy's fault. I will not waste my time arguing with someone so myopic and reductionist.
You know RH means business when he starts breaking out the big words.
