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OOTB Carolina Basketball Discussion Thread

Tough to tell a kid when recruiting him that there's a chance he's not gonna be a lotto pick after 1 season when he's been told he's a lotto pick for the last 4 years.

K and Cal are selling to these kids they will be lotto picks because they've produced so many to back it up. They don't talk about Frank Jackson in recruiting meetings, they talk about Kyrie.

So you're a kid...one coach says "after 1 year with me you're going to be a lotto pick" and another says "son, if you aren't a lotto pick you'll have room to grow in our program".

17 year old kid who has been told he is a lotto pick his whole life is going with coach 1.
 
Getting rid of the OAD rule will be the best thing for college basketball. The top players will be able to make money right away, while all other players will have the time they need to develop their games without having to worry about getting "kicked off" the team.
 
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Tough to tell a kid when recruiting him that there's a chance he's not gonna be a lotto pick after 1 season when he's been told he's a lotto pick for the last 4 years.

K and Cal are selling to these kids they will be lotto picks because they've produced so many to back it up. They don't talk about Frank Jackson in recruiting meetings, they talk about Kyrie.

So you're a kid...one coach says "after 1 year with me you're going to be a lotto pick" and another says "son, if you aren't a lotto pick you'll have room to grow in our program".

17 year old kid who has been told he is a lotto pick his whole life is going with coach 1.
That's exactly it, it's easy for us to look at guys like Bolden who get passed over or Frank Jackson who's pushed out before he's ready and go "There's a good chance this will happen to you" but the kid will see Kyrie or Tatum or Ingram and say "No, I'm gonna be like them"
 
That's exactly it, it's easy for us to look at guys like Bolden who get passed over or Frank Jackson who's pushed out before he's ready and go "There's a good chance this will happen to you" but the kid will see Kyrie or Tatum or Ingram and say "No, I'm gonna be like them"

I think a lot of these kids also forget about the European players coming into the draft every year. They compare themselves against the American kids and assume they have a strong chance at a first round (top 30) pick. Then teams start taking the foreign players either because of their skill, or to simply stash them overseas for a few years, and fringe college kids get pushed to the second round or don't get drafted at all.
 
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Check out this article on how duke and UK operate. Scathing.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/4/9/17213792/trevon-duval-duke-one-and-done
Well, at least they're getting a cracker-jack education at one of the finest learning institutions in the country.

That's another aspect to this charade that wasn't mentioned. These kids aren't going to college for what college was created to provide. These sports teams are just there as a revenue generator. College sports have virtually nothing in common with college education.

I'm not sure what the FBI's findings will do to the game. I haven't heard anything else and Sean Miller was back on the court int he tournament. I'm not really worried about the effects on UNC. Roy Williams has been derided for his adherence to giving the upperclassmen the starting roles. Coaches like Calipari and K have chosen to build an annual "show" of who can rack-up the most 5-Stars and cater to those kids and to hell with the talent that already committed to them. It's like boy bands with a shelf-life of 5 months. Way to go, K! Your legacy of the last 35 years will end with a big shit stain. Thank you!
 
@coryfly . . with the bitch-slap on G7 over on Raider.

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Lol... If anyone thinks K wouldn't take a second year from Trent or Duval they're high. Love the narrative that K tricks Bolden into coming back but forces Duval and Trent out. Duke is actively pursuing a grad transfer because they lack outside shooting next season... But K forced Trent out.
I didn't take it so much that he "forced" those guys out, but by recruiting "better" talent, K did put Trent and Duval in a position where they have to either go pro now or take a reduced role. They can stay if they want to and be in the same situation Bolden is in, or they can take their chances and see what the NBA has to offer. I don't think K tricked Bolden into staying, and Bolden getting hurt his freshman year hurt his potential to be a one and done, but I know that he didn't imagine being at Duke 2 years and having 1 double digit scoring game in that time to show for it.
 
Getting rid of the OAD rule will be the best thing for college basketball. The top players will be able to make money right away, while all other players will have the time they need to develop their games without having to worry about getting "kicked off" the team.
FTR, the proposed 2-year minimum rule won't be an either/or type of thing. Everyone will have to wait two years. So no, the top players won't be able to make money right away, unless they go to Europe.

NBA could do themselves a favor though and permit entrance to the G-League immediately after high school. But, like we've speculated on here, unless average G-League salaries and G-League TV coverage rise, folks will still opt to go to college because they'll be on TV more and build their brand more before they get to the NBA.
 
Lol... If anyone thinks K wouldn't take a second year from Trent or Duval they're high. Love the narrative that K tricks Bolden into coming back but forces Duval and Trent out. Duke is actively pursuing a grad transfer because they lack outside shooting next season... But K forced Trent out.

He really made Trent feel welcome pulling in three 5 star wings for next year. If that doesn’t say, “we want you back” then I don’t know what does.

As for Bolden, he’s a perfect example of why I don’t like k. K had no use for Bolden and was probably wishing for him to leave last summer. But now he’s caught with his pants down in the front court and he’s a “valuable” piece, huh? K is a sellout of the highest order. And that’s not really a big deal. The bigger deal is watching all these life long duke fans attempt to rationalize k’s behavior and the state of their program.
 
FTR, the proposed 2-year minimum rule won't be an either/or type of thing. Everyone will have to wait two years. So no, the top players won't be able to make money right away, unless they go to Europe.

NBA could do themselves a favor though and permit entrance to the G-League immediately after high school. But, like we've speculated on here, unless average G-League salaries and G-League TV coverage rise, folks will still opt to go to college because they'll be on TV more and build their brand more before they get to the NBA.

I'm pretty sure there have been at least some discussions about a 0 and 2 baseball type rule where high school players would have the option to jump to the NBA or go to college for at least two years. I don't think anything has really been decided yet, but we should hopefully know more on 4/25 when the NCAA releases their committee report.
 
I didn't take it so much that he "forced" those guys out, but by recruiting "better" talent, K did put Trent and Duval in a position where they have to either go pro now or take a reduced role. They can stay if they want to and be in the same situation Bolden is in, or they can take their chances and see what the NBA has to offer. I don't think K tricked Bolden into staying, and Bolden getting hurt his freshman year hurt his potential to be a one and done, but I know that he didn't imagine being at Duke 2 years and having 1 double digit scoring game in that time to show for it.
Trent and Duval came to Duke with a goal to be OAD, they knew it and so did the staff. When you know guys are leaving you recruit players to replace them. The Duke staff expected Tyus Jones to be around multiple years but he played himself into the first round and they had to scramble to get Thornton to reclassify, I don't think they want that to happen again. For example look at what happened with Bradley and UNC, you guys probably would have preferred Roy bringing in a highly ranked big man instead of scrambling to pull in several project bigs.
He really made Trent feel welcome pulling in three 5 star wings for next year. If that doesn’t say, “we want you back” then I don’t know what does.

As for Bolden, he’s a perfect example of why I don’t like k. K had no use for Bolden and was probably wishing for him to leave last summer. But now he’s caught with his pants down in the front court and he’s a “valuable” piece, huh? K is a sellout of the highest order. And that’s not really a big deal. The bigger deal is watching all these life long duke fans attempt to rationalize k’s behavior and the state of their program.
Also Little will be gone in a year but despite that I sure hope Roy doesn't recruit his replacement because that would be unfair. Duke brought in a whole bunch of 5 stars the year before but Kennard didn't sit on his ass and poubt about it, he worked his butt off and earned playing time. Trent could have done the same, he didn't, and even if Duke had no one coming in this year he was gone.

Regarding Bolden, if K wanted him to leave last Summer he would have "forced" him to leave. Duh.
 
For example look at what happened with Bradley and UNC, you guys probably would have preferred Roy bringing in a highly ranked big man instead of scrambling to pull in several project bigs.

This is a very interesting point I hadn't thought of til you said it. That said, it isn't like Roy didn't offer 2017 bigs before knowing what TB was doing (Bamba, Tilmon, Stokes come to mind).

I think the point is Roy wouldn't have taken 3, he would have grabbed one to either start alongside Tony (in Bamba's case) or come off the bench.

K recruited 3 wings and a PG when he had freshman playing wing and PG. That's a bit crazy and definitely sends the message that we don't want you.

Also Little will be gone in a year but despite that I sure hope Roy doesn't recruit his replacement because that would be unfair. Duke brought in a whole bunch of 5 stars the year before but Kennard didn't sit on his ass and poubt about it, he worked his butt off and earned playing time. Trent could have done the same, he didn't, and even if Duke had no one coming in this year he was gone.

However, I also agree with you that these kids are coddled to death. If you want to start, work your ass off and earn it, no matter who is there or coming in.

No one has a spot, you earn it.

Most of these kids aren't willing to fight for the spot anymore. They all just sitting around waiting to see who is coming/leaving.
 
K recruited 3 wings and a PG when he had freshman playing wing and PG. That's a bit crazy and definitely sends the message that we don't want you.
If the message K got from Trent and Duval was "hey we're going to be here for 4 years" I'd agree. When they tell you coming in that they plan to be gone after their freshman year and you recruit accordingly, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. Especially since they're likely going to be millionaires soon.
Most of these kids aren't willing to fight for the spot anymore. They all just sitting around waiting to see who is coming/leaving.
exactly this. I don't think Roy knew that Bradley would be out at the end of the season either, if he had he may have had a better shot at some of the bigs he targeted. If you're a OAD and you know Roy has a track record of playing upperclassmen over freshman then you see a sophomore Bradley plus Junior Maye on the roster... probably not that appealing when you want to maximize your exposure in your one year of college.
 
They didn't make the payment, but the article I linked says moo coaches were aware of the payment. That, my friends, is an NCAA violation.
Yeah what @tarheel0910 said. I could have made it clearer but Moo didn’t care about facts so...
Gotcha. I'm pretty meh about it, but I do hope they get dicked down by the NCAA, simply for the way they witch hunted us for years.
 
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